Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:00:30.43\00:00:32.23
This is your program,
00:00:32.26\00:00:33.83
bringing you news,
views, information, analysis,
00:00:33.86\00:00:36.73
and really an
up-to-date perspective
00:00:36.77\00:00:38.87
on religious liberty in the US
00:00:38.90\00:00:41.47
often and also around the world.
00:00:41.50\00:00:43.77
My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty Magazine,
00:00:43.81\00:00:47.14
and my guest on
this program is Alden Ho,
00:00:47.18\00:00:50.31
pastor of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
00:00:50.35\00:00:53.31
And I want to...
00:00:53.35\00:00:55.38
Your background is varied,
00:00:55.42\00:00:56.75
maybe we'll get a
little bit into that,
00:00:56.79\00:00:58.12
but you grew up or
were born in Singapore...
00:00:58.15\00:01:02.22
Right.
00:01:02.26\00:01:03.59
Early years in Canada.
00:01:03.63\00:01:05.33
And your last assignment,
00:01:05.36\00:01:06.80
you were an Adventist chaplain
and sort of jack of all trades,
00:01:06.83\00:01:13.70
I think for Jefferson Academy,
00:01:13.74\00:01:15.20
a self-supporting academy
in Jefferson, Texas, right?
00:01:15.24\00:01:18.57
Right. Correct.
00:01:18.61\00:01:20.94
I want to talk with you
about where we are today.
00:01:20.98\00:01:23.88
And where we are
today is I hope six...
00:01:23.91\00:01:25.81
Far apart. Six foot apart.
00:01:25.85\00:01:27.98
Not good.
00:01:28.02\00:01:29.35
You know, the co-founder
00:01:29.38\00:01:31.02
of the
Seventh-day Adventist Church,
00:01:31.05\00:01:32.39
Ellen White,
00:01:32.42\00:01:33.76
a visionary people
believe that with good evidence
00:01:33.79\00:01:37.09
that God was
speaking through her
00:01:37.13\00:01:38.76
and she said many times,
00:01:38.79\00:01:40.13
press together, press
together, press together.
00:01:40.16\00:01:43.33
Doesn't know how you do that in.
00:01:43.37\00:01:44.70
Wonder what she would say now?
00:01:44.73\00:01:46.07
Yes.
00:01:46.10\00:01:47.44
But, of course, she meant that
figuratively in unification,
00:01:47.47\00:01:50.87
but, you know,
00:01:50.91\00:01:52.24
we're in a difficult
social distancing time
00:01:52.27\00:01:55.54
in the US and
indeed around the world.
00:01:55.58\00:01:58.41
A global pandemic,
00:01:58.45\00:01:59.78
that is real,
although not to be,
00:01:59.81\00:02:03.05
I think in any way equated
00:02:03.08\00:02:04.49
with the Black Death of Europe,
00:02:04.52\00:02:07.02
where third of
Europe died at one point
00:02:07.06\00:02:09.99
not to be compared even
yet with the 1918 flu pandemic,
00:02:10.03\00:02:14.10
but the effects
that we've experienced
00:02:14.13\00:02:16.83
not so much the disease itself
00:02:16.87\00:02:18.33
but the social
effects that is far reaching,
00:02:18.37\00:02:20.24
aren't they?
00:02:20.27\00:02:21.60
What's your take on it,
00:02:21.64\00:02:22.97
especially from a
religious practice
00:02:23.00\00:02:24.97
and a religious
liberty point of view?
00:02:25.01\00:02:27.08
Well, we know that Matthew 24,
00:02:27.11\00:02:30.58
Jesus already
told the disciples,
00:02:30.61\00:02:32.21
these things are gonna happen.
00:02:32.25\00:02:33.58
Right.
00:02:33.62\00:02:34.95
You know, there
were certain aspects
00:02:34.98\00:02:36.32
that we were told
there would be nation
00:02:36.35\00:02:37.75
against nation.
00:02:37.79\00:02:39.12
And that's not just like
00:02:39.15\00:02:40.52
a country
versus another country,
00:02:40.56\00:02:42.92
its races as in ethnic groups.
00:02:42.96\00:02:45.76
And what do we have today?
00:02:45.79\00:02:47.13
We have blacks, whites,
00:02:47.16\00:02:49.63
you have a lot of writing
00:02:49.66\00:02:52.30
as a result of this
nation against nation,
00:02:52.33\00:02:55.90
and then you have
pestilence on top of all this.
00:02:55.94\00:02:58.67
So...
00:02:58.71\00:03:00.04
And false
messiahs. False messiahs.
00:03:00.08\00:03:01.51
And spiritual dislocations
or one type of another.
00:03:01.54\00:03:04.91
Yeah, earthquakes, we just
had what 7.3 or something 6.3
00:03:04.95\00:03:09.35
down in New
Zealand just recently.
00:03:09.38\00:03:11.22
So a lot of these things
00:03:11.25\00:03:12.59
are starting to
ramp up right now
00:03:12.62\00:03:15.02
because it's prophetic.
00:03:15.06\00:03:16.39
We were told it
was going to happen.
00:03:16.42\00:03:17.96
Yes, I did something
that I've done many times,
00:03:17.99\00:03:22.96
but recently I went
00:03:23.00\00:03:24.33
to old copies
of Liberty Magazine
00:03:24.37\00:03:26.03
to see how they wrote up
00:03:26.07\00:03:28.37
or how they reacted
to different events.
00:03:28.40\00:03:31.07
And I went to the flu
plan pandemic year in 1918.
00:03:31.11\00:03:35.64
Look for that whole year
and then a few months beyond,
00:03:35.68\00:03:38.78
and I didn't find
anything about the flu,
00:03:38.81\00:03:40.88
which is interesting.
00:03:40.92\00:03:42.25
Really?
00:03:42.28\00:03:43.62
What I found quite a
bit on was World War I
00:03:43.65\00:03:45.95
which clearly
overshadowed the killing,
00:03:45.99\00:03:50.96
where 600,000
people died in the US
00:03:50.99\00:03:53.03
and I don't know the population,
00:03:53.06\00:03:54.50
but it was considerably less
than its present 307 million,
00:03:54.53\00:04:00.00
you know, my guess is
that it might have been
00:04:00.04\00:04:02.40
a bit over 100 million,
00:04:02.44\00:04:04.64
maybe 150 million,
but no more than half.
00:04:04.67\00:04:07.94
So 600,000 a lot of people,
00:04:07.98\00:04:10.71
and I noticed that at the time,
00:04:10.75\00:04:13.01
but compared to World War I,
00:04:13.05\00:04:14.88
the war to end of wars if
you read the history books,
00:04:14.92\00:04:18.49
it faded, but even World War I,
00:04:18.52\00:04:21.69
they didn't talk about it
00:04:21.72\00:04:23.06
as thought it
was the end of time.
00:04:23.09\00:04:25.03
They spoke of it as
you did a sign of the end.
00:04:25.06\00:04:29.33
More to come.
00:04:29.36\00:04:30.70
Yes. Definitely more to come.
00:04:30.73\00:04:32.07
And I don't think
I'm sure you're the same.
00:04:32.10\00:04:35.54
There's nothing to
be happy about this.
00:04:35.57\00:04:37.81
No. In itself, but...
00:04:37.84\00:04:39.94
But there is
something to be happy about...
00:04:39.97\00:04:41.31
Yeah, but beyond that.
00:04:41.34\00:04:43.85
I've said before my Father
who's been dead for years now.
00:04:43.88\00:04:47.38
When I would tell him
about different developments,
00:04:47.42\00:04:49.68
he invariably would say
00:04:49.72\00:04:51.15
when I tried to
scare him may be.
00:04:51.19\00:04:53.72
He would say,
"Isn't it wonderful?"
00:04:53.76\00:04:55.09
He says, "The
Lord's about to come."
00:04:55.12\00:04:57.49
So we need to keep this.
00:04:57.53\00:04:58.86
The Bible says, "The
blessed hope in mind."
00:04:58.89\00:05:00.93
That's the positive
aspect of the whole thing
00:05:00.96\00:05:02.70
that we need to
keep that hope in mind
00:05:02.73\00:05:05.13
that all these
things we were told
00:05:05.17\00:05:07.24
are going to happen.
00:05:07.27\00:05:08.60
They are happening.
00:05:08.64\00:05:09.97
And we were told that
it's gonna be very quick
00:05:10.01\00:05:11.91
that all these
things are happening
00:05:11.94\00:05:13.27
in just within weeks,
00:05:13.31\00:05:15.01
our world changed.
00:05:15.04\00:05:16.38
Everybody's wearing a mask.
00:05:16.41\00:05:17.75
Everybody's staying at home.
00:05:17.78\00:05:19.88
I mean, I was watching the news
00:05:19.91\00:05:21.42
and all the stuff that
was happening in India,
00:05:21.45\00:05:23.39
people staying at home,
00:05:23.42\00:05:24.75
and then that
cyclone came through
00:05:24.79\00:05:26.45
and started
heading towards Bangladesh.
00:05:26.49\00:05:29.12
It was really
chaotic at that point,
00:05:29.16\00:05:31.96
but then we bring
it back home here.
00:05:31.99\00:05:34.33
And it's a very strange time
00:05:34.36\00:05:36.53
because during that time period,
00:05:36.56\00:05:38.17
just as it hit,
00:05:38.20\00:05:39.60
I was actually, took a
sabbatical from ministry
00:05:39.63\00:05:42.60
and I started my bike ride
00:05:42.64\00:05:43.97
from San Diego to
St. Augustine, Florida.
00:05:44.01\00:05:47.94
And for 45 days,
00:05:47.98\00:05:49.68
2500 miles I rode across
the US right during all of this
00:05:49.71\00:05:53.82
and it was pretty crazy time.
00:05:53.85\00:05:56.32
Well, let's talk about that.
00:05:56.35\00:05:58.15
Before the program
you were sharing that,
00:05:58.19\00:06:01.42
but you had a sort
of an overview of the US
00:06:01.46\00:06:04.99
as it entered into this
historic social dislocation,
00:06:05.03\00:06:09.00
relocation.
00:06:09.03\00:06:10.37
Yeah. What did you see?
00:06:10.40\00:06:11.73
Did you see any difference?
00:06:11.77\00:06:13.30
The first thing I noticed was
00:06:13.34\00:06:14.67
when I got on the
plane in Dallas, Fort Worth
00:06:14.70\00:06:17.87
flying on Southwest Airlines
flying from there to San Diego.
00:06:17.91\00:06:22.11
You went
through the TSA security
00:06:22.14\00:06:24.21
very, very quickly,
00:06:24.25\00:06:25.81
but once you were on the plane,
00:06:25.85\00:06:27.18
I started looking around
00:06:27.22\00:06:28.55
and it was
probably between 20% to 25%
00:06:28.58\00:06:33.52
full less than that amount.
00:06:33.56\00:06:35.29
I mean, there was nobody
in the rows in front of me,
00:06:35.32\00:06:37.79
nobody in the rows behind me.
00:06:37.83\00:06:39.19
I was, it was me
00:06:39.23\00:06:40.56
and there was
another guy next to me.
00:06:40.60\00:06:42.36
And so the amount of
people that were flying,
00:06:42.40\00:06:46.13
then once you get to San Diego,
00:06:46.17\00:06:48.77
it was a very eerie feeling,
00:06:48.80\00:06:50.54
the airport
should have been busy
00:06:50.57\00:06:52.24
for Sunday
evening or Monday evening,
00:06:52.27\00:06:54.91
but it wasn't busy.
00:06:54.94\00:06:56.54
And, you know,
00:06:56.58\00:06:58.18
you go to greet the Uber driver.
00:06:58.21\00:07:00.12
And you go to shake hands,
00:07:00.15\00:07:01.48
and then you kind of just
can't shake the person's hand,
00:07:01.52\00:07:04.75
a lot of craziness.
00:07:04.79\00:07:06.12
What you reminded me
of this shortly after 9/11
00:07:06.15\00:07:09.52
when we were gearing up
00:07:09.56\00:07:10.89
as a country to
attack Afghanistan,
00:07:10.93\00:07:13.40
whether or not we
should is another question.
00:07:13.43\00:07:17.10
I was coming home
from work one day,
00:07:17.13\00:07:19.33
I drove about an hour
and a half at that time
00:07:19.37\00:07:24.47
to the General Conference,
00:07:24.51\00:07:25.84
our world headquarters
have since moved to the NAD,
00:07:25.87\00:07:28.84
North American Division,
00:07:28.88\00:07:30.58
but I drove from
my home in Hagerstown
00:07:30.61\00:07:33.31
in the relative
country of Maryland,
00:07:33.35\00:07:35.48
about an hour and a half.
00:07:35.52\00:07:37.15
And so coming home I
was mostly on the freeway,
00:07:37.19\00:07:39.59
the main 270, then into 70,
00:07:39.62\00:07:44.43
yeah, East-West freeway.
00:07:44.46\00:07:47.06
And usually it's pretty busy,
00:07:47.10\00:07:48.43
in fact, more or
more stop and start
00:07:48.46\00:07:50.47
a lot of the way
and as I headed off,
00:07:50.50\00:07:55.24
it got bad no one was moving.
00:07:55.27\00:07:57.07
And so I went off on a side road
00:07:57.11\00:07:59.07
and there was a man in black
00:07:59.11\00:08:00.48
sort of a guy in the movie
almost with a walkie-talkie
00:08:00.51\00:08:04.28
and I asked him, I
said, "Is it clear up ahead?"
00:08:04.31\00:08:06.21
He says, "A
truck carrying missiles
00:08:06.25\00:08:10.95
has gone off the freeway,
says, it's flocked up ahead,
00:08:10.99\00:08:13.66
you can't get through."
00:08:13.69\00:08:15.22
So I continued on the
way I was going, didn't work.
00:08:15.26\00:08:19.83
So I came back
00:08:19.86\00:08:21.20
and he was no
longer on the side road.
00:08:21.23\00:08:22.56
So I decided I'll try that road.
00:08:22.60\00:08:24.80
And I went on that road
00:08:24.83\00:08:26.17
and I came out of the woods
00:08:26.20\00:08:28.67
almost at the next
intersection on the freeway.
00:08:28.70\00:08:32.74
And here are military guys
00:08:32.77\00:08:35.74
with their
entourage and all the rest.
00:08:35.78\00:08:37.91
I see a huge military helicopter
00:08:37.95\00:08:39.75
on the freeway I
see a truck tipped over.
00:08:39.78\00:08:42.45
And amazingly,
00:08:42.48\00:08:44.02
I drove past all of them
00:08:44.05\00:08:45.39
got on the
freeway and drove home.
00:08:45.42\00:08:46.76
Not one car on the freeway.
00:08:46.79\00:08:48.62
I'm the only car but it's
what, the effect is surreal.
00:08:48.66\00:08:52.49
Yeah.
00:08:52.53\00:08:53.86
It was like the world has ended.
00:08:53.90\00:08:55.40
And I wanted to
take a stand still there.
00:08:55.43\00:08:57.93
I have the same
feeling riding through,
00:08:57.97\00:08:59.70
there were certain parts
00:08:59.73\00:09:01.07
because everybody
started to stay home.
00:09:01.10\00:09:03.17
And there was
areas that I was riding
00:09:03.20\00:09:05.94
right on the double yellow line
00:09:05.97\00:09:08.38
because there
are no cars around,
00:09:08.41\00:09:10.48
but what was interesting is,
00:09:10.51\00:09:12.21
even though
people stayed at home,
00:09:12.25\00:09:13.88
truckers, they lifted their ban,
00:09:13.92\00:09:16.79
their limit.
00:09:16.82\00:09:18.15
So they didn't,
00:09:18.19\00:09:19.52
they could drive
more than eight hours now.
00:09:19.55\00:09:20.99
That started to
worry me because I thought,
00:09:21.02\00:09:23.06
"What if this guy's half asleep?
00:09:23.09\00:09:25.09
And he's going right by me?"
00:09:25.13\00:09:27.13
Yeah, I didn't know that.
00:09:27.16\00:09:28.50
So that's
clearly visible changes,
00:09:28.53\00:09:30.47
but it has to have
an effect, doesn't it?
00:09:30.50\00:09:32.90
On every area of life, and
of course, on this program,
00:09:32.93\00:09:36.10
we think about
religious liberty.
00:09:36.14\00:09:38.57
Can you imagine
have you seen already
00:09:38.61\00:09:40.34
that there's any effects
00:09:40.38\00:09:41.71
on how people
practice their religion?
00:09:41.74\00:09:44.08
Is it more free, less free,
more inhibited, less inhibited?
00:09:44.11\00:09:47.88
I think people are
being more careful now
00:09:47.92\00:09:50.32
because you have to be...
00:09:50.35\00:09:52.15
Well, people are watching.
00:09:52.19\00:09:54.46
Social media is watching.
00:09:54.49\00:09:56.19
Governor of California says,
00:09:56.22\00:09:58.46
"We will have social
media to watch people
00:09:58.49\00:10:02.50
to make sure
00:10:02.53\00:10:03.87
that they're
complying with this."
00:10:03.90\00:10:05.50
So through all of this,
00:10:05.53\00:10:07.94
you have to be
politically correct
00:10:07.97\00:10:09.40
with your words,
00:10:09.44\00:10:10.77
but where is that
political correctness?
00:10:10.81\00:10:13.07
Does it always stay that way?
00:10:13.11\00:10:14.84
Or do we actually
draw the line somewhere?
00:10:14.88\00:10:17.55
Well, now you're getting
00:10:17.58\00:10:18.91
into the
questions that I have...
00:10:18.95\00:10:20.35
Now is an overall disclaimer.
00:10:20.38\00:10:23.08
I have to say
00:10:23.12\00:10:24.45
we're facing a
real health threat,
00:10:24.49\00:10:26.99
and things have to be done.
00:10:27.02\00:10:28.72
So it's pointless and
would be counterproductive
00:10:28.76\00:10:31.99
for anyone in
the name of religion
00:10:32.03\00:10:33.50
or any other
freedom to just say,
00:10:33.53\00:10:35.43
"I'm not gonna obey any of this,
00:10:35.46\00:10:36.83
you know, forget it.
00:10:36.87\00:10:38.20
I'll do whatever I want."
00:10:38.23\00:10:39.63
That's socially irresponsible,
00:10:39.67\00:10:41.30
as well as a
losing legal proposition,
00:10:41.34\00:10:44.44
but what has crossed my
mind more and more, in fact,
00:10:44.47\00:10:47.48
it's overwhelming now.
00:10:47.51\00:10:49.21
I think, on many civil liberties
00:10:49.24\00:10:53.18
and in
particular religious liberty
00:10:53.21\00:10:54.82
we have been blindsided by this
00:10:54.85\00:10:57.82
and we've almost
without thinking,
00:10:57.85\00:10:59.72
given a way the whole
game right out of the gate.
00:10:59.75\00:11:03.36
To define what do you mean
by giving away the whole thing?
00:11:03.39\00:11:06.66
Well, you know,
people in the Middle Ages,
00:11:06.70\00:11:10.73
you know, went to the dungeons,
00:11:10.77\00:11:13.17
they went to the burning pyre
00:11:13.20\00:11:17.11
and were killed for their faith
00:11:17.14\00:11:19.47
because they
wouldn't give an inch
00:11:19.51\00:11:21.04
on practicing their faith
00:11:21.08\00:11:22.84
or meeting
together with believers.
00:11:22.88\00:11:24.21
I remember visiting
Rome driving to the catacombs
00:11:24.25\00:11:29.98
and going down there reading
00:11:30.02\00:11:31.35
how during the persecutions
00:11:31.39\00:11:32.85
when it was not safe to
meet together as Christians,
00:11:32.89\00:11:36.62
they met even in the tombs.
00:11:36.66\00:11:39.49
Their life was a threat,
00:11:39.53\00:11:41.63
but they persisted
because they wanted to meet.
00:11:41.66\00:11:43.73
You know, for the risk
of what maybe it's three,
00:11:46.80\00:11:49.97
four more dangerous times
more dangerous than the flu.
00:11:50.01\00:11:53.44
Churches are not
much meeting anymore.
00:11:53.48\00:11:56.08
People are treating
others as strangers.
00:11:56.11\00:11:58.51
The government is saying that...
00:11:58.55\00:12:00.82
Well, they're not saying per Se,
00:12:00.85\00:12:02.28
but churches have not
00:12:02.32\00:12:04.19
in the early
stages of this lockdown,
00:12:04.22\00:12:06.96
they have not
qualified as essential services.
00:12:06.99\00:12:10.43
True.
00:12:10.46\00:12:11.79
That is a mind-boggling shift.
00:12:11.83\00:12:13.16
But the liquor stores were open.
00:12:13.19\00:12:14.53
Right.
00:12:14.56\00:12:15.90
I know that, I was
about to sort of, didn't.
00:12:15.93\00:12:17.27
And the pawn
shops, P-A-W-N pawn shops.
00:12:17.30\00:12:20.74
So I don't particularly believe
00:12:20.77\00:12:23.61
that the authorities
necessarily had a bad agenda,
00:12:23.64\00:12:27.68
but they've unthinkingly
not seen the distinction
00:12:27.71\00:12:30.21
and religious people should have
00:12:30.25\00:12:32.05
and made a point of it.
00:12:32.08\00:12:36.18
I think this is a
good time to make a break.
00:12:36.22\00:12:38.05
We'll be back. Stay with us.
00:12:38.09\00:12:39.72
I want to
continue this discussion
00:12:39.75\00:12:41.22
about the times we live in.
00:12:41.26\00:12:42.59