Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:00:29.32\00:00:31.39
This is your program
00:00:31.43\00:00:33.09
for discussion of
religious liberty events
00:00:33.13\00:00:35.10
in the US and around the world.
00:00:35.13\00:00:36.97
My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine.
00:00:37.00\00:00:40.64
And my guest on the
program is Amireh Al Haddad,
00:00:40.67\00:00:45.54
Director of Public Affairs
00:00:45.57\00:00:47.21
and Religious Liberty
for the Southern Union
00:00:47.24\00:00:49.01
of Seventh-day
Adventist, big mouthful.
00:00:49.04\00:00:50.55
I wish you had a shorter title
of another one of your jobs
00:00:50.58\00:00:54.35
'cause I know
you have many hats.
00:00:54.38\00:00:56.52
Let's talk about
something that as we record,
00:00:56.55\00:00:59.22
this is rising as a
mountain on the horizon.
00:00:59.25\00:01:03.93
And this probably should be up
00:01:03.96\00:01:05.49
before then the US
presidential election.
00:01:05.53\00:01:09.03
It's gonna be all
consuming as far as Fox and CNN
00:01:09.06\00:01:12.87
and some of the other networks.
00:01:12.90\00:01:15.84
I think it's
already all concerning.
00:01:15.87\00:01:17.21
Already, but it's
gonna get much worse.
00:01:17.24\00:01:18.67
Yeah.
00:01:18.71\00:01:20.21
And maybe worse
is the wrong word
00:01:20.24\00:01:22.18
because it's the center
00:01:22.21\00:01:24.05
of what the American
democracy is all about
00:01:24.08\00:01:27.08
and there's so
much at stake this time
00:01:27.12\00:01:28.92
not least of all
attitudes on religious liberty.
00:01:28.95\00:01:32.39
Now how should, you know,
00:01:32.42\00:01:34.36
the Christian right
00:01:34.39\00:01:35.82
and the politically active
Moral Majority is an old term,
00:01:35.86\00:01:38.66
you know, they're
already politically engaged,
00:01:38.69\00:01:40.33
but how should
the average person
00:01:40.36\00:01:42.50
and certainly from a
Christian perspective,
00:01:42.53\00:01:44.47
what would we tell people
00:01:44.50\00:01:46.40
about how to be involved
00:01:46.43\00:01:47.77
or what to do or
what's their responsibility?
00:01:47.80\00:01:50.11
What role does
voting have for a Christian,
00:01:50.14\00:01:52.37
you know, set
for that far Kingdom?
00:01:52.41\00:01:55.54
You know, the issues of voting
00:01:55.58\00:01:59.35
for the
Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:01:59.38\00:02:01.85
have kind of gone back
and forth, back and forth.
00:02:01.88\00:02:04.65
And there's a...
00:02:04.69\00:02:08.69
I'm not gonna
say a small majority,
00:02:08.72\00:02:11.66
I think that there is
a set of church members
00:02:11.69\00:02:16.20
who think that
they shouldn't vote
00:02:16.23\00:02:18.43
and they don't vote,
00:02:18.47\00:02:20.20
I think you're
probably one of that set.
00:02:20.24\00:02:23.37
Not directly. Not directly.
00:02:23.41\00:02:25.47
But you talk about...
00:02:25.51\00:02:27.04
I'm not a
political activist myself,
00:02:27.08\00:02:29.21
but I think
00:02:29.24\00:02:30.75
there's a good argument
to be made as a Christian,
00:02:30.78\00:02:34.98
whatever country you're in,
00:02:35.02\00:02:36.45
you have a certain need to be
not politically involved, but,
00:02:36.48\00:02:40.82
you know, take
part in the social life
00:02:40.86\00:02:43.53
and the public
life of the country.
00:02:43.56\00:02:45.53
And if voting is before you,
00:02:45.56\00:02:47.50
as long as you
do it thoughtfully,
00:02:47.53\00:02:49.06
and I know you're
gonna get onto this,
00:02:49.10\00:02:50.97
just to throw away your
vote worse on a candidate
00:02:51.00\00:02:54.27
you haven't thought about
00:02:54.30\00:02:55.64
that could be very irresponsible
00:02:55.67\00:02:57.01
and bringing evil to
the country as a whole.
00:02:57.04\00:02:59.54
And maybe a rebuke from the Lord
00:02:59.57\00:03:02.34
that watches over all of us.
00:03:02.38\00:03:04.58
Well, when you vote
it's doing something
00:03:04.61\00:03:09.75
that we like to call
exercising the franchise.
00:03:09.78\00:03:12.25
Yes.
00:03:12.29\00:03:13.62
Using old term for
voting, but what happens is,
00:03:13.66\00:03:19.73
you have to find
these balancing points.
00:03:19.76\00:03:22.96
And I think that today
finding that balancing point
00:03:23.00\00:03:27.80
is more difficult
now than it's ever been.
00:03:27.84\00:03:31.94
So you and I
00:03:31.97\00:03:33.31
come from a
Seventh-day Adventist tradition.
00:03:33.34\00:03:36.24
We understand historically
00:03:36.28\00:03:39.05
how Seventh-day
Adventist have regarded voting
00:03:39.08\00:03:42.48
and why we've taken
different positions on voting,
00:03:42.52\00:03:48.09
but, you know,
00:03:48.12\00:03:49.99
I can tell you that
I've worked for the church
00:03:50.03\00:03:52.76
for over 25 years
00:03:52.79\00:03:55.10
and I am seeing
00:03:55.13\00:03:57.47
a very new and
very worrisome trend
00:03:57.50\00:04:01.80
among church members...
00:04:01.84\00:04:03.37
Already I can say yes.
00:04:03.41\00:04:04.74
I know. I see
this. You see it as well.
00:04:04.77\00:04:07.94
Anyone who in
positions like we are where,
00:04:07.98\00:04:12.45
you know, looking at
the public affairs side
00:04:12.48\00:04:14.35
of church work,
00:04:14.38\00:04:16.48
we see what is happening
00:04:16.52\00:04:19.02
and we've seen it
over a span of 25 years.
00:04:19.05\00:04:23.19
And that is that 25 years ago,
00:04:23.22\00:04:26.80
I had, you're
gonna love this story,
00:04:26.83\00:04:28.16
by the way,
00:04:28.20\00:04:29.53
and I don't know
if I've ever told you
00:04:29.56\00:04:30.90
this story,
00:04:30.93\00:04:32.27
but I had a law professor
00:04:32.30\00:04:33.64
from the University of
Alabama call my office.
00:04:33.67\00:04:36.60
And he said,
00:04:36.64\00:04:37.97
"I'm teaching
constitutional law one on one.
00:04:38.01\00:04:41.38
And one thing that I want to do
00:04:41.41\00:04:43.14
is I want to
get Liberty Magazine
00:04:43.18\00:04:46.92
to all of my students."
00:04:46.95\00:04:51.79
I said, "Well, I
can make that happen.
00:04:51.82\00:04:53.22
That's not a problem."
00:04:53.25\00:04:54.62
And so, we started chatting
00:04:54.66\00:04:56.93
because, of course, I'm a female
00:04:56.96\00:04:58.36
and I'm gonna chat
whoever calls me on the phone.
00:04:58.39\00:05:02.03
He said, "You know,
Seventh-day Adventists have..."
00:05:02.06\00:05:06.10
He actually
called us queer ducks.
00:05:06.13\00:05:07.97
He said, "Yeah,
we're queer ducks."
00:05:08.00\00:05:09.97
And I just kind of
jokingly quacked in his ear,
00:05:10.01\00:05:12.74
you know, quack quack
00:05:12.77\00:05:14.11
and I said, "Well,
what makes you think
00:05:14.14\00:05:15.74
that we're queer ducks?"
00:05:15.78\00:05:17.11
And he said,
00:05:17.15\00:05:18.48
"Seventh-day
Adventists are very conservative
00:05:18.51\00:05:21.42
when it comes to
theological issues."
00:05:21.45\00:05:24.62
He said, "But when it
comes to political issues,
00:05:24.65\00:05:27.99
you appear to be more
00:05:28.02\00:05:30.03
in the middle of
the road politically
00:05:30.06\00:05:32.96
less partisan,
00:05:32.99\00:05:34.56
more bipartisan
00:05:34.60\00:05:35.96
than any other
00:05:36.00\00:05:37.73
Protestant
denomination out there."
00:05:37.77\00:05:39.30
When did you have
this conversation?
00:05:39.33\00:05:40.67
This was 25 years
ago. Yes, not today.
00:05:40.70\00:05:42.67
He would not call
and tell me that today.
00:05:42.70\00:05:45.11
Yeah.
00:05:45.14\00:05:46.47
And, you know,
00:05:46.51\00:05:47.88
as I've tried to
evaluate and look
00:05:47.91\00:05:50.75
at why he
wouldn't call and tell me.
00:05:50.78\00:05:53.95
Now, I think he's
still gonna tell me
00:05:53.98\00:05:55.68
that overall we're
conservative theologically,
00:05:55.72\00:05:58.99
but I don't think
he's gonna tell me
00:05:59.02\00:06:00.46
that we're middle of the
road when it comes to politics.
00:06:00.49\00:06:02.96
Well, we haven't changed
our official church stance
00:06:02.99\00:06:06.70
on public issues.
00:06:06.73\00:06:09.23
And theology hasn't changed,
00:06:09.26\00:06:12.80
but I think
culturally within Adventism,
00:06:12.83\00:06:15.27
there's been a massive shift.
00:06:15.30\00:06:16.71
It has been.
00:06:16.74\00:06:18.07
And maybe I
should let you say it,
00:06:18.11\00:06:20.64
but I've started on this route.
00:06:20.68\00:06:22.61
I think, Anglo
Adventists by and large
00:06:22.64\00:06:25.85
are quite right
wing conservative.
00:06:25.88\00:06:27.88
Yes.
00:06:27.92\00:06:29.25
Hispanics and blacks
00:06:29.28\00:06:31.42
on the main are quite
liberal democratic oriented.
00:06:31.45\00:06:35.96
And it's very interesting
because you're correct.
00:06:35.99\00:06:38.56
If you are more
Anglican, if you're Caucasian,
00:06:38.59\00:06:42.46
you're more
likely, not 100% likely,
00:06:42.50\00:06:45.50
but you are more likely
to be conservative more.
00:06:45.53\00:06:48.27
Well, generalizations
fall down on a particular.
00:06:48.30\00:06:49.67
Exactly.
00:06:49.70\00:06:51.04
But I'm certain of
the generalization.
00:06:51.07\00:06:52.54
Yeah, and interestingly enough,
00:06:52.57\00:06:56.91
Seventh-day
Adventists in that regard
00:06:56.95\00:06:59.78
are absolutely no different
00:06:59.81\00:07:01.88
than other
Protestants in America today.
00:07:01.92\00:07:04.52
So you cannot today say
00:07:04.55\00:07:07.16
that Seventh-day
Adventists are different
00:07:07.19\00:07:09.69
than other
Protestants in that regard.
00:07:09.72\00:07:12.46
And, to me,
00:07:12.49\00:07:15.10
I've always liked
being a queer duck.
00:07:15.13\00:07:17.37
Yeah.
00:07:17.40\00:07:18.73
Well, in some ways,
00:07:18.77\00:07:20.20
our end time
movement and our theology
00:07:20.24\00:07:22.44
is predicated
on being different.
00:07:22.47\00:07:24.07
Yes.
00:07:24.11\00:07:25.44
We're either seeing
ourselves as a reformed group
00:07:25.47\00:07:28.61
that are pulling the
others into the right line
00:07:28.64\00:07:30.68
'cause they're not anymore
00:07:30.71\00:07:32.05
or even a very
progressive movement,
00:07:32.08\00:07:34.75
you know, that's
why we took a lead
00:07:34.78\00:07:36.12
in against alcohol and tobacco.
00:07:36.15\00:07:39.99
That's why even
in the earliest days,
00:07:40.02\00:07:42.52
they were abolitionists.
00:07:42.56\00:07:45.86
We weren't in
the mainstream then,
00:07:45.89\00:07:47.26
but we are somewhat now.
00:07:47.30\00:07:50.47
But even that doesn't
worry me so much, that's fine,
00:07:50.50\00:07:54.07
but it's the way it's happened.
00:07:54.10\00:07:55.44
It's become a lockdown
reflex sort of a position.
00:07:55.47\00:07:58.97
Right.
00:07:59.01\00:08:00.34
It is because
00:08:00.38\00:08:01.71
it takes on the
secular world's attitudes
00:08:01.74\00:08:05.58
towards different or
differing political parties.
00:08:05.61\00:08:10.49
And that's worrisome
00:08:10.52\00:08:12.29
because I think
00:08:12.32\00:08:13.66
that the secular
world's attitudes
00:08:13.69\00:08:15.76
towards
differing political parties
00:08:15.79\00:08:18.49
is very mean
spirited and unchristlike.
00:08:18.53\00:08:21.26
Well, it's become that way.
00:08:21.30\00:08:22.90
Yeah, and it doesn't matter
00:08:22.93\00:08:24.27
which, I'm not talking
one party against the other.
00:08:24.30\00:08:26.84
I'm saying both sides.
00:08:26.87\00:08:29.20
Well, yeah, I've
seen it happened.
00:08:29.24\00:08:30.57
Yeah.
00:08:30.61\00:08:31.94
And you put a,
00:08:31.97\00:08:33.31
what 25-year
spread on your analysis.
00:08:33.34\00:08:35.84
That might be just 'cause that's
00:08:35.88\00:08:37.38
when you've been
involved with it.
00:08:37.41\00:08:39.61
You know, I've been
with Liberty Magazine
00:08:39.65\00:08:41.55
about 21 years or so,
00:08:41.58\00:08:43.39
but the shift is
within that area,
00:08:43.42\00:08:46.45
I'd say it's in
the last four to...
00:08:46.49\00:08:51.09
No, over the last 8 to 12 years,
00:08:51.13\00:08:55.83
something's happened in America
00:08:55.86\00:08:57.40
'cause in that whole
time I've been listening
00:08:57.43\00:09:00.17
as much as I can
and I commute to work,
00:09:00.20\00:09:01.67
this is my...
00:09:01.70\00:09:03.04
You know, I bona fide my
excuse for this, I commute.
00:09:03.07\00:09:08.81
If I drive quickly
00:09:08.84\00:09:10.18
about an hour and a half to work
00:09:10.21\00:09:11.55
and if I stop for
gas and all the rest,
00:09:11.58\00:09:13.25
or there's an accident,
00:09:13.28\00:09:15.02
it could be two
and a half, four hours
00:09:15.05\00:09:16.38
I've taken this long to get to.
00:09:16.42\00:09:17.75
I'm listening all
the time to Talk radio.
00:09:17.79\00:09:21.69
And sometimes on television,
00:09:21.72\00:09:23.56
I have a screen in my car
00:09:23.59\00:09:24.96
that's in no traffic
enforcement watching.
00:09:24.99\00:09:30.17
But, you know, I listen
to the different tone radios,
00:09:30.20\00:09:32.90
so Rush Limbaugh.
00:09:32.93\00:09:34.27
Oh, no, that's not
his title. What is it?
00:09:34.30\00:09:36.81
Medal of Honor? Rush Limbaugh.
00:09:36.84\00:09:39.31
I listen to him
from the earliest days.
00:09:39.34\00:09:41.81
I used to like him.
00:09:41.84\00:09:43.18
I lost a lot of interest
00:09:43.21\00:09:45.65
somewhat into the
Clinton administration,
00:09:45.68\00:09:47.82
I realized that he
can't say a single good thing
00:09:47.85\00:09:50.82
about the Clinton's.
00:09:50.85\00:09:52.25
And right or wrong,
00:09:52.29\00:09:53.62
nobody's all right or all wrong,
00:09:53.66\00:09:55.92
and that troubled me.
00:09:55.96\00:09:57.33
So I've listened
00:09:57.36\00:09:58.69
and the rhetoric
00:09:58.73\00:10:00.83
is just escalated and escalated.
00:10:00.86\00:10:02.83
And it's reached the
point where it's very common,
00:10:02.86\00:10:06.03
more so on right wing than left,
00:10:06.07\00:10:07.84
but it's not
unknown on left wing
00:10:07.87\00:10:09.60
because left wing is sort of,
00:10:09.64\00:10:11.24
it diffuses out
into nothingness.
00:10:11.27\00:10:13.31
Right wing as it is
doctrinally is, sort of,
00:10:13.34\00:10:16.41
you know, they're
behind the readout.
00:10:16.44\00:10:18.38
Right.
00:10:18.41\00:10:19.75
And the right wing more
often, but the other sometimes,
00:10:19.78\00:10:22.68
they'll say things
like the opposition is,
00:10:22.72\00:10:24.69
they're not American.
00:10:24.72\00:10:26.12
They're traitors.
00:10:26.15\00:10:27.49
They're terrorist sympathizers.
00:10:27.52\00:10:29.52
These are killing charges.
00:10:29.56\00:10:32.36
And I wrote once
in Liberty Magazine
00:10:32.39\00:10:35.56
in an editorial
00:10:35.60\00:10:36.93
that this is how I
put it as I remember,
00:10:36.97\00:10:39.07
I said the difference between
the right wing hate radio
00:10:39.10\00:10:42.90
that preceded the
genocide in Rwanda
00:10:42.94\00:10:47.14
and the right wing
hate radio in the US,
00:10:47.18\00:10:50.71
I said, "It is one of the green,
00:10:50.75\00:10:52.08
not of kind."
00:10:52.11\00:10:54.32
And I know it's trendy
for some people just to say,
00:10:54.35\00:10:57.09
I think they just
calamity hell as, you know,
00:10:57.12\00:10:58.79
that even the
President made the statement,
00:10:58.82\00:11:00.82
you know, civil war
could happen whatever,
00:11:00.86\00:11:02.62
I don't think so.
00:11:02.66\00:11:03.99
I remember the
70s the weatherman
00:11:04.03\00:11:06.43
and all the rest of US
00:11:06.46\00:11:07.86
was sociologically shaky then
00:11:07.90\00:11:09.86
with rioting in '68
in all the US cities.
00:11:09.90\00:11:13.64
That's not true,
00:11:13.67\00:11:15.00
but we've
planted a horrible seed
00:11:15.04\00:11:17.77
in the public discussion,
that unless something is done,
00:11:17.81\00:11:22.38
it has its natural end
some sort of cleansing,
00:11:22.41\00:11:26.21
violent
cleansing within society.
00:11:26.25\00:11:27.92
It's very, very bad. Yes.
00:11:27.95\00:11:30.05
And, of course, the
thing I'll throw in for free,
00:11:30.09\00:11:32.82
it's worth
remembering the framers,
00:11:32.85\00:11:34.42
the founders of the US,
00:11:34.46\00:11:36.29
were adamantly opposed
to factionalism to parties.
00:11:36.32\00:11:40.20
And that's the great
irony that we've got it with
00:11:40.23\00:11:42.20
a vengeance now.
00:11:42.23\00:11:44.37
You do exactly what I
tell church members not to do.
00:11:44.40\00:11:48.44
And what's that?
00:11:48.47\00:11:49.80
You spend four hours a day,
00:11:49.84\00:11:51.87
listening to
political commentary.
00:11:51.91\00:11:54.58
Well, I have to. So
I've to speed on it.
00:11:54.61\00:11:58.58
So what I tell...
00:11:58.61\00:12:00.22
But I should tell you something,
00:12:00.25\00:12:01.58
and it's a
homage to my father too.
00:12:01.62\00:12:03.79
My father's
been dead since 2006.
00:12:03.82\00:12:06.72
And I've got all of
his stuff in the basement.
00:12:06.76\00:12:10.33
My mother died afterwards
and we emptied the house
00:12:10.36\00:12:12.39
and brought it in
a truck to our home
00:12:12.43\00:12:13.83
and it's in the basement.
00:12:13.86\00:12:15.20
I haven't yet settled it.
00:12:15.23\00:12:16.56
It's maybe a job for a time,
00:12:16.60\00:12:18.37
but I was going
through a box the other day
00:12:18.40\00:12:20.24
and I found some
papers from my father
00:12:20.27\00:12:21.90
that I've never seen before.
00:12:21.94\00:12:23.27
He was sort of
writing, is writing to himself,
00:12:23.30\00:12:25.97
but presuming we would
see it sometime and he said,
00:12:26.01\00:12:28.51
"I've decided."
00:12:28.54\00:12:29.88
He said, "I've
resolved to filter everything
00:12:29.91\00:12:33.01
through the
Bible and Ellen White,
00:12:33.05\00:12:35.32
I test everything."
00:12:35.35\00:12:36.69
And he was that way,
00:12:36.72\00:12:38.05
I could tell him this whatever.
00:12:38.09\00:12:39.42
Oh, but the Bible says this,
oh, but Ellen White says this.
00:12:39.45\00:12:42.36
And you have to have
a point of reference,
00:12:42.39\00:12:44.63
otherwise
information will just overflow
00:12:44.66\00:12:47.20
your sensibility.
00:12:47.23\00:12:48.86
And especially
00:12:48.90\00:12:50.23
if you're
getting as the president
00:12:50.27\00:12:51.60
somewhat correctly says,
00:12:51.63\00:12:52.97
there's a lot of misinformation,
00:12:53.00\00:12:54.34
a lot of, you know,
lies passing as news.
00:12:54.37\00:12:57.77
If you just absorb it all
and take it as fact, you gonna,
00:12:57.81\00:13:00.38
who knows...
00:13:00.41\00:13:01.74
Well, the Bible
says you like the driven,
00:13:01.78\00:13:03.85
you know, like the wind,
00:13:03.88\00:13:05.21
the wicked are like the wind,
00:13:05.25\00:13:06.58
you know, blown hither and yon.
00:13:06.61\00:13:09.42
Well, you know, the
more I visit with churches,
00:13:09.45\00:13:14.16
I do see that
00:13:14.19\00:13:16.49
within the
churches that are democrat,
00:13:16.52\00:13:21.26
there's a heavy feeling
00:13:21.30\00:13:24.53
of sorrow.
00:13:24.57\00:13:28.57
And not just because of
who sits in the White House.
00:13:28.60\00:13:33.31
There is a sense of desperation
when I visit with churches
00:13:33.34\00:13:39.41
that are majority Republican.
00:13:39.45\00:13:43.28
I doubt there's not a sense
of we're winning there either.
00:13:43.32\00:13:46.22
No one is feeling good.
00:13:46.25\00:13:48.12
So what happens is
00:13:48.16\00:13:50.03
that one is feeling
dejected and the other one,
00:13:50.06\00:13:53.76
the Republicans
are feeling angry.
00:13:53.80\00:13:56.56
And they feel threatened.
00:13:56.60\00:13:57.93
And they feel threatened.
I listen to their stuff.
00:13:57.97\00:13:59.30
Yes.
00:13:59.33\00:14:00.67
Not all of them, these
are all generalizations,
00:14:00.70\00:14:02.04
but there's a prevailing view,
00:14:02.07\00:14:03.41
this is the last good chance
00:14:03.44\00:14:05.17
to save the country
for what they stand for,
00:14:05.21\00:14:07.51
but that's a
very dangerous thing
00:14:07.54\00:14:08.88
because it's a do or die option.
00:14:08.91\00:14:11.98
And so extreme
measures are used,
00:14:12.01\00:14:13.95
an extreme polarization sets in.
00:14:13.98\00:14:16.38
Yeah.
00:14:16.42\00:14:18.62
And the US as a whole is
really into this mindset.
00:14:18.65\00:14:21.02
It's not quite the
same as the voting blocks,
00:14:21.06\00:14:23.76
but with the
collapse of the Soviet Union,
00:14:23.79\00:14:26.03
an illusion, oh, not illusion,
00:14:26.06\00:14:27.76
but a model that
we carried forward
00:14:27.80\00:14:30.33
all during the Cold
War that it was a godly,
00:14:30.37\00:14:33.47
democratic free
country in opposition
00:14:33.50\00:14:35.87
to the repressed
nation over there.
00:14:35.90\00:14:39.17
It was always somewhat true
00:14:39.21\00:14:40.54
and always somewhat an illusion,
00:14:40.58\00:14:42.28
but with the counterpoint gone,
00:14:42.31\00:14:45.05
what reason do we have
to maintain the fiction?
00:14:45.08\00:14:47.25
Now we can be
rough at the border.
00:14:47.28\00:14:49.38
Now we can be as
profane as we like.
00:14:49.42\00:14:51.32
Now, you know,
secularism can rise up and,
00:14:51.35\00:14:54.76
you know, even we have...
00:14:54.79\00:14:56.86
What is it?
00:14:56.89\00:14:58.23
The Freedom from
Religion Foundation
00:14:58.26\00:15:00.03
challenging at the
Supreme Court level.
00:15:00.06\00:15:02.00
We don't have to make a pretense
00:15:02.03\00:15:03.37
we're a religious
country the same way as before,
00:15:03.40\00:15:05.93
so that the
floodgates are opened.
00:15:05.97\00:15:07.97
And I think this
desperation of the right wing,
00:15:08.00\00:15:10.47
you're right,
00:15:10.51\00:15:11.84
it's not just the left
wing feeling threatened.
00:15:11.87\00:15:14.38
That's what makes it dangerous.
00:15:14.41\00:15:15.74
I believe they think this
is their last good chance.
00:15:15.78\00:15:19.65
And I know the
military also in the late 80s,
00:15:19.68\00:15:23.52
when the Berlin Wall
came down. I used to listen.
00:15:23.55\00:15:26.25
I listened to a
lot and read a lot too.
00:15:26.29\00:15:28.62
They were really
disillusioned and afraid
00:15:28.66\00:15:33.36
because their
long-term battle plan
00:15:33.40\00:15:35.63
for the fear,
00:15:35.66\00:15:37.77
but plan for full confrontation,
00:15:37.80\00:15:40.84
as McNamara said 10
nuclear bombs per city
00:15:40.87\00:15:43.61
that was their only plan.
00:15:43.64\00:15:45.34
Now with the fragmentation
of the enemy, what do you do?
00:15:45.37\00:15:48.91
And we suddenly, we
have a king of the hill
00:15:48.94\00:15:51.48
and here is China rising.
00:15:51.51\00:15:53.21
So the planners have
known for simple reality
00:15:53.25\00:15:56.12
we have maybe
00:15:56.15\00:15:57.49
or we had maybe 20, 30 years max
00:15:57.52\00:15:59.55
to order the world
00:15:59.59\00:16:00.92
as we weren't before it comes in
00:16:00.96\00:16:02.29
and crowds us in a way
that we can hardly imagine.
00:16:02.32\00:16:05.63
And I think that's
easily translatable
00:16:05.66\00:16:08.06
to the attitude
of the voting blocks
00:16:08.10\00:16:10.23
and the right
wing in particular,
00:16:10.27\00:16:11.83
they're mostly good people,
00:16:11.87\00:16:13.97
but and they think a good cause,
00:16:14.00\00:16:16.30
they've embraced
even a horrible mentality
00:16:16.34\00:16:19.61
that anything is worth it,
no matter how they go about it,
00:16:19.64\00:16:22.41
since their
cause is just as good.
00:16:22.44\00:16:24.58
And I'll end
with before the break
00:16:24.61\00:16:28.35
with one example
00:16:28.38\00:16:29.95
that I have shared
before on this program,
00:16:29.98\00:16:31.49
but to me it was the
most telling thing possible.
00:16:31.52\00:16:33.89
I remember on a
television program,
00:16:33.92\00:16:36.73
Jerry Falwell,
00:16:36.76\00:16:38.09
the late Jerry Falwell,
00:16:38.13\00:16:39.63
and Al Sharpton were
on a TV program together,
00:16:39.66\00:16:43.97
being interviewed,
and I forget what program,
00:16:44.00\00:16:47.37
but the topic they got
onto was anti-abortion,
00:16:47.40\00:16:50.21
which they shared in common
00:16:50.24\00:16:51.57
and was
everything was hunky-dory.
00:16:51.61\00:16:53.27
Then Sharpton
00:16:53.31\00:16:55.78
got on to inner
city justice and so on.
00:16:55.81\00:16:58.48
And Falwell was
obviously bothered
00:16:58.51\00:17:01.22
'cause this was off message.
00:17:01.25\00:17:02.62
So it turned to him and
there was not reps prelude,
00:17:02.65\00:17:05.15
no prelude at all.
00:17:05.19\00:17:06.52
That's exactly what he said,
he turned to him and he said,
00:17:06.55\00:17:08.19
"If you believe that,
00:17:08.22\00:17:09.69
he says you are not a Christian,
00:17:09.72\00:17:11.43
you are not an American,
00:17:11.46\00:17:12.79
you are a
terrorist sympathizer."
00:17:12.83\00:17:14.93
And that makes my blood run cold
00:17:14.96\00:17:16.80
because I know what we do
to terrorist sympathizers.
00:17:16.83\00:17:18.93
Yeah.
00:17:18.97\00:17:20.30
I mean, there's
Guantanamo, you disappear no,
00:17:20.34\00:17:22.10
no legal
protections or whatever.
00:17:22.14\00:17:23.77
And he meant that
rhetorically, but, you know,
00:17:23.81\00:17:26.27
someone with
intelligence and, you know,
00:17:26.31\00:17:28.51
in the moment of the
heat of discussing can say it,
00:17:28.54\00:17:31.08
but you filter down to with
00:17:31.11\00:17:32.68
the foot soldiers
of political action.
00:17:32.71\00:17:34.98
They don't filter
it, they act on it.
00:17:35.02\00:17:36.95
Yeah.
00:17:36.99\00:17:38.32
It's strong words
00:17:38.35\00:17:41.26
to call someone
terrorist sympathizers.
00:17:41.29\00:17:42.62
Unjustified. Unjustified.
00:17:42.66\00:17:44.36
Yeah, very unjustified.
00:17:44.39\00:17:45.73
But that's the context.
00:17:45.76\00:17:47.10
So we'll discuss
it after a break.
00:17:47.13\00:17:49.10
Please stay with us
and we'll talk a little bit
00:17:49.13\00:17:50.63
of more about the dynamic
00:17:50.67\00:17:52.00
as we come into a
major election season.
00:17:52.03\00:17:56.34
Stay with us.
00:17:56.37\00:17:57.71