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Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI200463A
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00:28 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:30 This is the program that's bringing you news, 00:33 views, information and discussion 00:35 on religious liberty events in the US 00:37 and around the world. 00:39 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty magazine, 00:42 and my guest on this program is Amireh Al Haddad. 00:46 You're the director of PARL, 00:48 Public Affairs and Religious Liberty 00:49 for the Southern District of the United States 00:53 for the Seventh-day Adventist Church, right? 00:55 Yes, I have. 00:57 Sounds like a court introduction. 00:58 Yes. 01:00 I have eight states in my territory 01:02 all in the southeast. 01:03 Yeah. 01:04 How long have you been working in the unions? 01:07 Well... 01:08 I think 20 years or so, isn't it? 01:09 Yeah, more than 20 years. 01:11 I don't want to give my age away. 01:12 But I came in 1992, 01:16 and just kind of worked my way through. 01:19 So you've seen a lot of developments 01:21 on the religious liberty front. 01:22 I have. 01:24 The running joke is that I'm not an attorney, 01:26 but I play one on TV. 01:28 Yeah. 01:29 So sometimes I think it's an advantage 01:30 not to be an attorney, they get to focus 01:33 on the technicalities and my feeling is that 01:37 sometimes the lawyers will willingly suspend 01:40 a sort of a moral judgment, so which makes them a moron. 01:43 Right. 01:44 Anyhow, let's talk about some current events that 01:48 have a bearing on religious liberty. 01:51 This present administration in the United States is bold. 01:55 Let's just say that, even if you agree with it, 01:57 it's bold, and disagree. 02:01 And I think nothing shows that 02:03 boldness more than the president's recent offer 02:08 of a peace plan for between the Palestinians and Israel. 02:14 Now, you know, we can discuss the politics of that. 02:17 But what do you think lies behind that? 02:19 Why would a US president throw something out, 02:23 seemingly politically a non starter? 02:27 But what's he got to gain from it? 02:28 Where's this coming from? 02:30 You're asking somebody 02:32 with an Arab background to talk about. 02:37 Well, because I know the answer doesn't lie in the Middle East, 02:39 it lies here. 02:41 Correct. It does lie here. What's informing it? 02:43 It's a combination of his voter base, 02:47 our current president's voter base, 02:50 which is evangelical Christians, 02:52 and his vice president's connection 02:55 to evangelical Christians. 02:57 It starts with a misunderstanding of prophecy 03:03 within that group 03:06 in terms of the millennium, 03:10 what's going to happen in the millennium, 03:12 where the millennium will take place. 03:15 And what's the millennium? 03:16 I'm sure not everybody that watches the program 03:18 even knows what's this millenarian 03:20 or millennium concept. 03:22 So the millennium is the thousand years 03:24 that is talked about in Revelation 03:27 after Jesus comes. 03:29 Well, that's part of the game. 03:31 Is that the thousand years before He comes, 03:34 after He comes, 03:35 after Seventh-day Adventists even have a different timeframe 03:41 to everything than the other people. 03:43 It's about three or four different chronologies, 03:45 which are all enabled 03:47 because Revelation is clearly not written 03:49 in totally linear fashion. 03:51 Right. 03:52 And it really depends on 03:53 whether or not you're from the school 03:55 of pre millennialism or post millennialism. 03:58 Do you believe that Jesus comes before the millennium 04:02 or after the millennium? 04:03 And then mixed in with this is the secret rapture... 04:07 The secret rapture. 04:09 The good people are taken away 04:10 and they don't have to suffer through 04:12 tough stuff anyway. 04:14 Yeah, it's actually a very theologically 04:16 important factor that a lot of people 04:20 don't recognize the importance of it. 04:22 And the importance is that 04:24 if you believe as many evangelicals believe 04:29 that Christ is going to reign on earth in the millennium, 04:33 what you have done is you've set yourself up 04:37 to fall for the Antichrist. 04:41 Yes, I like that. That's a good point. 04:43 Because the Bible's very clear that Jesus will not, 04:48 Jesus is clear that 04:49 He's not going to touch the earth 04:52 when He comes back the second time. 04:56 And so this is the difference between understanding that 05:02 whoever touches this earth is not going to be Christ, 05:06 and who the real Christ is. 05:08 Because the Bible says that the Satan will come 05:10 with the appearance of an angel. 05:12 Yes. 05:13 And it seems to describe a fake appearance, 05:16 at least something that gets people's attention. 05:18 They think, oh, this is the Holy One, 05:19 maybe Jesus, 05:20 and he'll appear all over the world and... 05:22 And this may be too deep. 05:24 I mean that it may be too deep theologically 05:28 to talk about on Liberty Insider. 05:30 It's very complicated. It is complicated. 05:32 Well, it's too deep for us to settle it. 05:33 Yeah. 05:35 But I think we can bring it up, 05:36 people need to know this stuff is at play. 05:38 Now on religious liberty per se, 05:41 it doesn't matter 05:43 when you're talking about the right of all people 05:44 to believe or disbelieve whatever they want. 05:47 But it's necessary to get to this explain this to, 05:51 so people understand what's really going on. 05:53 Yeah, because what's really going on 05:55 is the evangelical base here in America 05:58 is trying to prepare 06:04 Jerusalem for Christ's return. 06:08 It's one of the reasons why in 2017 06:11 Trump moved the US Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. 06:16 That was a evangelical push 06:20 for individuals who were his base voters. 06:24 And what troubles me, 06:25 it should trouble a lot of people 06:27 that may or may not believe this 06:28 while at placates that basal plays to them, 06:31 it also provokes precisely what they think will happen. 06:34 Exactly. 06:36 It's a purposeful self fulfilling prophecy. 06:38 Yes. 06:39 So it's really a provocation 06:43 for the people in that area 06:46 who already have quite strong opinions on it. 06:49 And this peace treaty, I think, is the latest thing. 06:52 To come up with a peace treaty 06:54 that's so biased toward Israel's agenda. 06:56 And, you know, we're all sympathetic to Israel. 07:00 Some more than others, but I think you know, 07:02 who would wish well to any country, 07:04 which badly to any country, and particularly, 07:07 the connection to the Jews left over in, 07:12 in World War II from the Holocaust. 07:14 There was sympathy to as they settled 07:16 in the Middle East and so on. 07:17 And that sort of spiraled out of control. 07:19 But nobody wants other than perhaps a odd manager 07:23 wanted to wipe them off the face of the planet. 07:25 But a peace treaty which is needed, 07:29 why would you present 07:30 something that's sort of packaged 07:31 and biased toward Israel one party 07:35 and then say to the other, take it or leave it? 07:37 To me, this is the end game. 07:38 That's what's very troubling about it. 07:41 And as you've just explained well, 07:44 the origins of that are not necessarily in a wish 07:47 to sort of smooth things over. 07:48 It's to placate the base whose very agenda is dynamite. 07:53 They want the Armageddon. 07:57 They want the horse, the blood up 07:58 to the horse's bridle as the Bible says. 08:01 And it is this type of move by the US 08:06 to placate evangelicals in this attitude 08:10 that really plays 08:13 into the issue of terrorism 08:17 and why the US is so demonized 08:21 by Middle East Arabs, especially Muslims. 08:25 And it doesn't, it does not help to continue 08:30 to do what the accuser is saying you're doing. 08:33 I know. 08:35 And I feel very sad on this development, 08:39 looking at the Middle East, where you know, 08:41 any reasonable, intelligent person 08:44 would want tensions to drop 08:45 and for all parties to be better off if, 08:48 you know, it's unlikely that everybody could be happy 08:51 to the fullest degree in any sort of a settlement. 08:54 There's going to be some compromise, 08:56 but you want to ease it, but this seems to me, 08:58 it just throws doctoral gas on the fire. 09:01 And we need to explain to our viewers 09:05 from the point of view of religion 09:06 and religious liberty 09:08 and particularly the separation of church and state, 09:10 the ideal, you know what's going on here? 09:14 I don't think under any circumstances 09:17 this fits the model of separation 09:18 of church and state. 09:20 This fits the model of the medieval period 09:22 where a political power with a religious agenda 09:26 either goes on a crusade 09:27 or starts a program or whatever. 09:30 Those are not good dynamics 09:32 when you mix any religion 09:34 into that sort of a dynamic, are they? 09:38 No. 09:39 There is, you know, 09:41 when you pick one religion against the other, 09:47 you add to the friction that's already there. 09:52 Very little is needed to escalate. 09:58 You know, the conflict that is going on there. 10:01 Let me throw in a wildcard 10:02 that you probably in your wildest dreams 10:03 wouldn't think it would be connected to this topic. 10:05 But do you, when I bring it up, 10:08 can you see a connection or a necessary connection 10:12 between what's going on in the US at the moment 10:14 where we're tearing down statues 10:17 and remembrances of bad periods in particular 10:20 the Civil War and some of the anti heroes who, 10:24 heroes to some perhaps, 10:26 how would you relate that dynamic 10:29 to what we've been talking about 10:31 in the Middle East? 10:33 Yeah, that's a little off for me. 10:36 Well, I'm not really sure that I'm not sure 10:39 where you're coming from on that actually. 10:41 No, but I have a point to make. 10:43 You know, we... 10:45 There's a lot of historical revisionism going on. 10:47 Yes. 10:49 And I think some regrets about what's happened in the past. 10:54 And I don't think we should tear down 10:56 every statue where you sort of wipe world history. 10:59 You go through Europe, 11:00 and there's all sorts of men on horseback and all the rest. 11:02 And if you know the history 11:04 very seldom are they Santa Claus. 11:08 You know, they cut somebody's head off, 11:10 they did something wrong. 11:12 And you know, you don't have to lionize them 11:14 to recognize their significance in history. 11:16 But to go to the good side of what's happening in the US, 11:19 we're looking at it with a tender conscience, 11:21 perhaps and not wanting to inflame the old rivalries 11:25 that in the US led to a civil war. 11:28 Why don't we apply that 11:29 same sort of thinking to the Middle East, 11:34 instead of stirring it up each time? 11:37 Or let me take another angle on it. 11:40 If as Israel 11:44 I think with a religious sensibility, 11:46 even though it's a socialist state, 11:49 keeps talking about, 11:50 I remember Begin, the Prime Minister talk about 11:52 they had a claim to Sumeria. 11:55 What's he talking about? That's Bible talk, right? 11:58 How many thousand years ago was that? 11:59 Two thousand years ago. 12:01 Are we going to settle the wrongs of 2,000 years ago 12:05 if we started that here? 12:07 I said on the program recently that I filmed, 12:09 I said we'll be living in teepees, 12:11 nobody in their right mind, 12:13 even I think the original inhabitant, 12:16 the descendants of the original habitants think 12:18 she can crank the, you know, 12:20 the world back to 2000 years ago 12:22 and start again. 12:23 We have to seek justice here 12:26 and try to minimize the conflict 12:29 but not buy into a scenario where you, you know, 12:33 you reach back into history and this mythical ideal, 12:36 which happens to be loaded with theological implications, 12:41 you know, and triumph, religious triumphalism, 12:44 you're not going to plant that as a goal 12:48 and you know that 12:49 it will bother other religionists. 12:52 The religionist history issue is very troublesome 12:57 because history is what it was. 13:02 And you don't want to change it because if you change it, 13:04 how do you learn from it? 13:06 How do you remember it? 13:08 But more than that, you can't really fully undo the past. 13:12 No, you can never undo the past. 13:13 You know, I thought about this 13:15 a lot on this isn't religious liberty, 13:17 but just on a world history and a human dynamic stage, 13:21 there's some justification, 13:23 I think within living memory to do something, 13:27 certainly the current generation, 13:28 but you get further back, 13:30 first of all information is unreliable. 13:32 And then the facts 13:34 on the ground are just so irrevocable, 13:37 that and then, you know, this group and that group 13:40 and like in our early Adventist history, 13:44 really jumping back for Adventism. 13:46 They had huge debates 13:47 about what Germanic tribes made up, 13:50 you know, well who were the 10 original Germanic tribes 13:54 that made up all 13:56 of the modern peoples of Europe. 13:57 And they, you know, you look at the history of it, 13:59 they moved here, they lived there. 14:01 You got to try to sort of crank back history 14:03 to where they came from, 14:05 nobody's even suggesting that, it's an exercise in futility. 14:09 It is. 14:11 And so I think people with the religious sensibility, 14:15 which they're allowed to have, 14:17 but they've been granted a very dangerous power 14:20 to apply that in a political scene 14:24 and mayhem is likely to follow. 14:26 It is, as you know, the sons of Abraham 14:30 had been fighting since they were born. 14:33 Ishmael and Isaac have been fighting for forever. 14:37 To add the US dynamic into it which is a different goal, 14:42 a different reason for doing that. 14:45 It really just kind of 14:47 puts you at a disadvantage 14:51 on the US's side of things, 14:53 because they're never going to be 14:56 able to work it out. 14:58 Good summary of the situation. Let's take a break. 15:00 We'll be back to continue this discussion shortly. 15:03 Stay with us. |
Revised 2020-06-11