Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI200457A
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00:27 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:29 This is your program for discussion and information 00:32 on religious liberty in the US and around the world 00:36 from the past right up till the present. 00:38 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:42 And I don't have a guest on the program 00:46 for this episode, 00:47 but I want to talk to you about this world, 00:51 this age that we live in. 00:53 And by way of introducing that, 00:55 I want to get back a little 01:00 in my own history 01:02 for when I used to live in Idaho. 01:05 I'm editing Liberty Magazine now obviously, as I introduced 01:08 based in the Washington DC area, 01:11 but for a number of years 01:12 I worked at a Seventh-day Adventist Church 01:15 publishing house in near Boise, Idaho 01:17 was actually in Nampa, just out of the capital city. 01:20 Oh, not the capital city, the largest city in Idaho. 01:25 And I used to fly hither and yon like I still do. 01:29 And I remember on one of my trips 01:31 coming back from the East Coast, 01:34 I flew back to Boise via Salt Lake City. 01:39 And I still don't really like to fly. 01:42 I've gotten used to it. 01:44 It's admittedly they're like getting on a bus 01:46 in many ways. 01:48 And while I still read all the accident reports 01:51 and have an underlying apprehension 01:53 about it, 01:54 I know that statistically it's very safe plus, 01:58 as you get a bit older, 02:00 you realize that just one risk among many not so important, 02:04 but I was relatively relaxed that day 02:08 20-some years ago 02:10 because it was such a beautiful day, 02:12 crystal clearer, 02:14 you can see almost forever is one of the song says, 02:18 "On A Clear Day You Can See Forever." 02:21 There were clouds in the sky, 02:22 but they were those little cotton ball, 02:27 intermediate clouds 02:28 that just give you a point of reference. 02:30 And when you're flying through them, it's wonderful. 02:33 And so I remember that flight. 02:36 And it stuck in my mind immediately 02:38 because I got to talk 02:40 into the middle-aged or elderly man 02:43 that was sitting next to me and he was quite friendly 02:46 and I struck up a conversation 02:48 and I found that he was the director 02:50 of the Brigham Young University Singers. 02:53 And he said that the whole group 02:56 were on the plane and that they were coming back 02:58 from about three weeks touring in the Middle East, 03:04 I think mostly in Israel, 03:05 but in the Middle East in the Holy Land 03:08 for use another term. 03:10 And he said how wonderful it had been 03:13 that given many, many concerts, but he said, 03:16 the young people are anxious to get home, 03:19 it's long enough. 03:20 So we had that conversation and meanwhile, 03:23 I'm looking out the window and it was beautiful. 03:25 And we were stair-stepping down 03:27 as they do for about half an hour 03:28 before you actually land 03:30 and we were coming in from the east into Salt Lake 03:34 and I think it's the Wasatch Mountains 03:37 are a range 03:38 that sort of block you from the east 03:40 as you come down then Salt Lake. 03:42 And so as we came down towards the Wasatch Mountains, 03:45 I heard some of the young people 03:47 buzzing among themselves about, 03:49 "Oh, there's the mountain range." 03:50 And they did mention skiing and so on, 03:52 but then as we came lower 03:54 and actually went between the mountain passes, 03:59 I heard them calling out, 04:01 there's where the settlers came with Brigham Young and so on. 04:06 And they started calling out 04:08 all of the moments of their history, 04:12 and then as we swept through the mountain, 04:14 suddenly the city opened up before us a wide expanse, 04:18 and they're in the middle of this temple square, 04:22 you know, the very important for Mormons 04:24 and, you know, I'm not pushing their theology at all, 04:27 I find it incomprehensible 04:30 as the Seventh-day Adventist Christian 04:32 is a someone that believes 04:33 in the Protestant biblical norms. 04:35 But, you know, 04:36 they have every right to believe it, 04:38 and I respect them for it, 04:39 but my point is how those young people 04:41 related to this incredible sudden visitor 04:44 of their city of promise. 04:47 And I could hear the excitement on the plane, 04:50 just buzzing, 04:52 and then without any signal 04:53 'cause I'm sitting next to the choir leader. 04:56 The young women in the choir leaped to their feet 04:59 and they started singing vigorously, 05:01 I'm gonna be a witness for my Lord, 05:03 I'm gonna be a witness. 05:05 And as soon as they finished their section, 05:07 the men leaped to their feet, 05:08 then the women again and they finished 05:10 that spiritual with vigour and power, 05:13 and the stewardess was standing in the aisle next to me. 05:16 And she said, "The hair on the back of my head," 05:20 she says, "are standing up." 05:21 It's so exciting. 05:23 And I've thought about that many times 05:25 and even shared that story a few times. 05:28 Like I say, I have no brief to expand or underscore 05:33 their particular belief system, 05:35 but I do know in the American history, 05:38 while this is a strange, from my point of view, 05:42 home-grown religion, 05:43 that it's a blend between American nativism 05:46 and Old Testament authority 05:50 and mysticism and so on. 05:52 You know, that is it may be 05:55 when you talk about religious liberty 05:56 in this country, in the United States. 05:59 The Mormons have come a long way. 06:02 The Governor of Illinois 06:04 actually had an extermination order on them. 06:06 And to be fair, 06:08 they've been quite the vigilantes themselves, 06:12 but they were expelled 06:13 under threat of death from Illinois. 06:16 A federal government army 06:19 at one point was sent to Salt Lake 06:22 to deal with these potential rebels 06:26 when it was sort of the fire frontier, 06:28 but it was heard in Washington 06:30 that they had formed their own militia. 06:31 So a federal army was sent to deal with them 06:34 to rape and rapine, 06:36 as then President's instructions were. 06:39 Amazing! 06:41 And at this late point, 06:42 they're not under direct persecution, 06:44 but they've had a story. 06:46 And for these people, 06:49 the promise and the symbolism of that city is amazing. 06:55 But I've thought about it a lot of times for all of us, 06:58 particularly Seventh-day Adventist Christians, 07:02 inheritors of the Reformation, 07:05 inheritors of our own pioneering moment 07:08 when we were expelled. 07:11 Forebears were expelled from the different churches 07:13 for having studied Daniel and Revelation 07:16 and believing that the Lord was soon to come 07:18 and sent off with prejudice. 07:21 And then even within the Millerites' 07:25 great discrepancies and views and the great disappointment 07:28 when the date 07:29 set by William Miller wasn't met, 07:31 and then beyond 07:32 that Seventh-day Adventist persecuted 07:34 by different blue laws in the United States. 07:38 Laws that exist in still about 20 states by the way, 07:40 just not enforced. 07:42 But at one point when they were only 07:44 about 25,000 Seventh-day Adventists, 07:47 as many as 900 of them 07:49 had been severely fined and many of them imprisoned 07:53 and put on the chain gangs usually down South 07:55 for breaking those blue laws. 07:57 It was not easy 07:59 to be a Seventh-day Adventist Christian. 08:01 And for Seventh-day Adventist, 08:03 the hope of the coming Kingdom of God, 08:06 the soon return of the Lord 08:08 was and should be a powerful dynamic. 08:13 I remember my father now dead some years, 08:17 when I would call him up and tell him of evidences 08:19 that we were getting close, you know, 08:21 something extraordinary had happened. 08:23 He only had one answer. 08:25 He says, "Isn't it exciting 08:27 that the Lord is about to come?" 08:30 Well, we can say that. 08:31 But, you know, this illustration 08:33 that I gave with these young people 08:34 coming home on the landing approach, 08:37 here is their city. 08:39 You know that that is what it is, 08:41 but not just figuratively, but literally. 08:45 We Bible believing Christians 08:46 with the blessed hope as Adventist called it. 08:50 We're on the glide path, 08:52 and we should be able to see beyond the mess 08:56 that's on this immediate glide path, 08:59 the mess that's this world of decay 09:01 and even violence. 09:04 As Ellen White writing to early Adventists, 09:07 speaking about the end time, she says, 09:08 "At the end of time scene throughout the whole world 09:10 will be like those of the French Revolution." 09:13 Chaos! Political disruption. 09:15 But beyond that, that little moment, and again, 09:18 I remember once coming into Manila in the Philippines, 09:22 beautiful city, 09:24 but on the approach here's the slum city, 09:27 people just with cardboard boxes 09:29 and everything living near a dump. 09:31 You had to get past that, 09:32 and then touch down and you're in a wonderful city. 09:37 We're in that same dynamic. 09:39 I remember Ellen White once said 09:41 to the early Adventists believers. 09:43 She says, 09:44 "Too many of you think far too well of the present time." 09:48 Far too well of the present time. 09:53 I want to share something in a sermon 09:55 that that really impressed me years ago when I read it. 10:00 It's a sermon written in 1855, 10:03 it's for Adventists says right in that, 10:05 that sweet spot of enthusiasm. 10:08 Remember 1844 was the Millerite expectation. 10:11 And already the out of the great disappointment 10:14 were coming a group that formalized a little later 10:18 actually as the Seventh-day Adventist Church. 10:20 But at that same time, Charles Spurgeon, 10:23 Charles Haddon Spurgeon, 10:25 a great Baptist preacher in England 10:29 was preaching powerfully 10:31 and online you can get 10:34 literally thousands of his sermons, 10:36 very prolific, 10:37 but this one was entitled 10:39 The Character of Christ's People. 10:42 And he said this. 10:45 He says, "A Christian is as essentially different 10:49 from a worldling as a dove is from a raven, 10:53 or as a lamb from a lion. 10:55 He is not of this world even in his nature. 11:00 You could not make him a worldling. 11:02 You might do what you like. 11:03 You might cause him to fall into some temporary sin, 11:06 but you could not make him a worldling. 11:08 You might cause him to backslide, 11:10 but you could not make him a sinner, 11:12 as he used to be. 11:13 He is not of the world by his nature. 11:17 He is a twice-born man! 11:18 In his veins runs the blood of the royal family 11:21 of the universe." 11:22 You know, that's a wonderful assumption 11:25 that we can make. 11:26 "He is a nobleman. He is a heaven-born child. 11:29 His freedom is not merely a bought one, 11:32 but he has his liberty his newborn nature. 11:34 He is essentially 11:35 an entirely different from the world!" 11:39 And then I'm sure Spurgeon was a powerful preacher. 11:42 We know that just like the mega churches of today, 11:46 not that they're always powerful, 11:47 but they have an appeal. 11:49 Spurgeon brought thousands of people 11:51 to hear these sermons. 11:52 And to his audience, he says, 11:54 "O that a thundering voice might speak this to your ears, 11:59 'Those whom Christ loves 12:02 are not of the world,' 12:06 but you are of the world therefore you cannot be His, 12:08 even though you professed to be! 12:10 For those that love him and not such as you.'" 12:13 So he's really telling off his audience. 12:15 But he says, "Look at Jesus' character 12:18 how different from every other man's 12:20 pure, perfect, spotless! 12:23 Even such should be the life of the believer." 12:26 And he says, "The Christian will always be different 12:28 from the world. 12:30 This is a great doctrine 12:33 and it will be found as true in ages 12:34 to come as in the centuries which are past, 12:37 looking back into history." 12:39 And I love to look at history 12:40 because it informs what the future might be. 12:43 "We read this lesson," he said, 12:44 "they are not of this world, even as I am not of the world. 12:47 We see them driven to the catacombs of Rome. 12:50 We see them hunted around like partridges. 12:54 And wherever in history you find God's servants, 12:57 you can recognize them 12:58 by their distinct unvarying character 13:02 they are not of the world, 13:04 but were a people scarred and peeled. 13:06 A people entirely distinct from the nations! 13:10 And if in this age there are no different people, 13:14 there are no Christians. 13:15 For Christians will always be different 13:19 from the world. 13:20 They are not of the world 13:22 even as Christ was not of the world. 13:23 This is the doctrine." 13:26 Interesting assertion, 13:29 a truism if you like, 13:31 I really redundant truism, but we don't hear it enough. 13:36 We don't think on it enough. 13:38 Let's take a short break 13:40 and I'll be back to continue this discussion. |
Revised 2020-04-23