Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI190455B
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00:01 Welcome back to Liberty Insider.
00:02 Before the break with Greg Hamilton, 00:04 we were looking at the Bible for some guidelines in... 00:07 1 Timothy 2. 00:08 And starting with 1 Timothy 00:10 and then getting on to Paul's more general, 00:12 not more general, but other statements 00:14 about authorities, and how we relate to them. 00:18 And this is not a theoretical, 00:19 this is not a biblical devotional exercise. 00:22 It's an everyday, 00:24 more and more becoming an everyday concern 00:26 of a Christian in any community, 00:29 particularly in repressive regimes, 00:30 but even in a Western democracy. 00:36 Is it just a matter of whatever the state says, 00:40 we not only pray for them where you, you know, 00:43 accede to secular demands. 00:46 That seems to me that that has some limits, 00:50 but it's being used 00:51 by when the church state can, are joining. 00:55 Often religious leaders have said, 00:57 well, you do what the state says, 00:58 it's your duty. 00:59 You know, often I've used the term in Liberty often, 01:02 they become state exhilarates, religious leaders, 01:05 and invoke Paul's words to bring the people in line. 01:09 Well, and here's the problem. 01:11 If you don't stand up for what is right, 01:13 you end up becoming complicit. 01:15 It's... 01:16 This idea that, well, 01:18 we'll just do the Lord's ministry 01:19 and do what's right, like in Hitler's day. 01:21 I mean, Christianity, 01:24 Christians became complicit behind Hitler 01:27 and supported him 01:29 for really ridiculous reasons 01:32 in my opinion. 01:34 And so what you end up with 01:36 is a complicity that's unsustainable 01:39 and unconscionable. 01:41 And so really, 01:42 it's better to stand up for what is right 01:45 and maybe lose your life over it 01:47 than to remain neutral. 01:50 I think of the French Underground, 01:51 for example. 01:53 I mean in the French Underground, 01:54 there was a lot of Christians involved 01:56 in that French Underground. 01:57 I know a number of them who were Adventists. 02:00 I mean, you can read... 02:04 What's his face? Who wrote Flee the Captor? 02:07 Oh, I can't think of it. Ford is his name. 02:10 But he was an Adventist communications director 02:13 of Pacific Union College for years. 02:15 And so I think that 02:18 that there is a time and a place 02:20 to do what's right even if it's, 02:22 you know, underground type fashion. 02:24 And now, 02:26 would you invoke something that's very problematic? 02:28 If you go to most history books 02:30 which are not necessarily always accurate, 02:32 you'll find that the underground 02:35 in those all the resistance in so many of these countries, 02:37 they pretty much say they were socialists. 02:40 Yeah. Communists and socialists. 02:42 Well, but that was the rhetoric of the day. 02:44 It was either... 02:45 You're either a fascist 02:47 or you were a communist/socialist. 02:48 Now, but let's just say they were not in total, 02:51 but somewhat. 02:53 That same rhetoric is still with us today 02:54 even in our political propaganda 02:58 that you see on TV. 02:59 It's nonsense. 03:00 But anyhow, the point that I want to bring out of it, 03:02 I don't think that should be a total inhibition 03:05 just because someone else that's for another reason 03:09 different from what anyone should agree was a bad policy 03:14 by becoming party to their actions, 03:18 you're not necessarily supporting them. 03:20 You're both opposing, something's wrong. 03:23 Ellen White, one of the Adventist pioneers, 03:25 I think showed the way on this. 03:27 She was a great champion 03:30 for prohibition or for anti-alcohol. 03:32 Yeah. 03:33 At the same time with many of the groups 03:34 that she was working 03:36 with were trying for Sunday laws. 03:37 Yes. 03:38 Which she was adamantly opposed to 03:40 from a religious liberty perspective. 03:41 Right. 03:43 But it didn't stop her working with them 03:44 on this other good cause. 03:45 She walked the tightrope. Yeah. 03:47 And when we... Which is what we need to do. 03:49 Well, we're dealing with authorities, 03:50 we're walking a tightrope between their claims on us 03:53 and heavens have superior claim. 03:55 Which means the old statement 03:57 that we said over and over again, 03:58 sometimes we have to work with strange bedfellows. 04:01 Yeah. Yeah. 04:03 Not bedbugs, but... 04:07 That's funny. 04:08 So but, you know, 04:10 I more and more think this is not theoretical now. 04:14 Again, we want to be supportive of need to be supportive, 04:18 whatever administration say in this country 04:20 that were situated the United States. 04:23 At the moment, 04:24 some religious people believe that 04:26 this President administration is not just being used of God 04:30 'cause they can all be used of God 04:32 or ultimately the forces. 04:35 But, you know, 04:37 that this is someone that's sort of chosen. 04:41 A President's been chosen by God. 04:43 It's funny how... I wish God had been. 04:45 I mean, that's dangerous to think anyway. 04:47 So what do you do with the ones you don't like? 04:49 So suddenly, they're not chosen anymore? 04:50 Yes. So that's the reasoning. 04:53 See how fickle that is. Yeah. 04:54 That is so fickled. Yeah. 04:56 Well, it's one dimensional. 05:00 It's unthinking. Yeah. 05:02 And for other unthinking people 05:03 that will lead them into trouble. 05:05 Yeah. It's not... 05:06 I'm not particularly on this occasion 05:08 saying that the President administration 05:10 or President is doing anything wrong. 05:11 Yeah. 05:13 But I'd be embarrassed if someone treated me that way. 05:14 Yeah. 05:15 That's taking away even ultimately, 05:18 my own actions and my own responsibility 05:20 for what I come up with. 05:22 Is it possible that we need our worldviews converted? 05:24 Is it possible that sometimes 05:27 our political prejudices 05:30 guide our faith instead of the other way around? 05:33 Absolutely. This is what I'm fishing for. 05:35 Like Daniel in the Bible since we're biblical. 05:39 You know, Daniel wasn't an elected official. 05:40 That's true. 05:42 He started off as a captive, in essence a slave and so on. 05:45 But he showed his trustfulness and was given public trust 05:49 under many administrations. 05:51 I can't find and it's true, he wrote, 05:53 apparently he wrote some of that himself 05:55 if not all of it, 05:57 but I can't find evidence 05:59 that Daniel was a political operative. 06:01 No. 06:02 He was there to do what was good for the nation 06:04 and the people, 06:06 no matter which people 06:07 and which nation because that were his. 06:08 Right. 06:10 He was being a good steward, 06:11 but his loyalty was always to God. 06:13 Right. 06:14 And I really think in our day and age 06:15 whether it's the United States or in some other country, 06:19 Christian is much safer 06:21 if they've decided ahead of time. 06:23 They serve God and they know 06:24 what his constitution if you like, 06:27 have that check listed, 06:29 then living in the real world as we do 06:32 they have full loyalty 06:34 and have no reason to react 06:38 or reject a leader's commands 06:40 but the reference point is your constitution... 06:43 Yeah. Your high loyalty. 06:44 And right or wrong, 06:45 I mean, some people would see Dr. Ben Carson in that role 06:49 or the chaplain, 06:51 the Senate Chaplain Barry Black. 06:53 Absolutely. 06:54 God puts people in certain places to serve Him 06:58 in a way that we have never had the opportunity. 07:02 And so we need to pray for them, 07:04 seriously pray for them. 07:05 But what we need to avoid as people that function 07:10 as Cardinal Richelieu did in France. 07:13 Oh, yeah. 07:14 Anyone that knows that story? Oh, sure. 07:16 He was the modern, 07:17 at least at that time, modern Machiavelli. 07:19 He was a Machiavellian church leader 07:23 who in a certain way... 07:25 He promised you the world and stabbed you in the back. 07:27 Was wielding the power in a secular state. 07:30 I mean, that's religion at its worst in my view. 07:32 Yeah. 07:34 Some say he was the founder of The Three Musketeers, 07:36 but that has any... 07:37 There's no truth. 07:39 You're getting a bit mixed up with Alexander Crummell. 07:41 Well, that too. 07:43 But no it was that era, so anyway. 07:46 But may be people don't know that history, 07:49 but it's well recorded and he was a powerful figure, 07:52 but clearly he was backwards and forwards 07:56 across the line of church and state and of this. 07:59 Well, his aspiration was to be the next pope. 08:01 And in fact did go further. 08:03 He was loyal to the queen but not to the king. 08:05 Yes. 08:07 We need to be loyal to the king. 08:08 It just depends on the situation which king. 08:12 Normally in this world, it's the secular king. 08:15 But when it's higher moral values, 08:17 it's always the absolute King. 08:19 Yeah, absolutely. 08:20 And it's hard for people to keep that in mind. 08:22 But we need to because I really think... 08:24 Well, not think. 08:25 It's certainly staring us in the face 08:28 as the world gets more complicated, 08:30 government becomes more if not intrusive, 08:33 more enveloping of our daily life. 08:36 We need to have it sorted out 08:37 how we relate to these secular powers. 08:39 Well, you know, it's funny. 08:41 There was a guy named Jonathan Mayhew 08:43 during the time of just prior to the American founding, 08:47 and he got up and preached a lot 08:49 against the British government, 08:52 and specifically King George, 08:54 and he would quote often his sermons Galatians 5:1, 08:57 "It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. 09:00 Stand firm, then, 09:01 and do not let yourselves be burdened again 09:03 by a yoke of slavery." 09:04 Although he meant it in political terms 09:07 to rise up against, 09:09 he was the big, one of the biggest figures. 09:10 One of the popes spoke against slavery to sin. 09:12 He was one of the big callers for revolution 09:16 against Great Britain. 09:17 And so and yet he was using a verse 09:21 that had nothing to do with that. 09:22 A verse that Paul was saying, 09:25 don't be yoked by your selfish, sinful ways, 09:29 be free in Christ. 09:30 And it's so easy 09:32 to call for certain things against certain leaders, 09:37 now King George III certainly deserved that. 09:41 But here we have an example how it's easy 09:44 to misuse our standing 09:48 for a calling that may not 09:51 or may be of God. 09:54 Yeah. 09:55 Now It's a serious question, 09:58 as I say in our age 09:59 we need to look carefully at this. 10:01 And I think, 10:02 decide ahead of time the priorities. 10:06 Don't wait till the political situation 10:09 is so charged that the crowd will push you forward 10:12 and you sign up for President Gordon 10:15 and or whatever. 10:16 Yes. 10:18 Because at that late point, 10:19 there's a rationale that people go along with. 10:22 I think we all have a moral responsibility 10:24 to stand up for what is right, because it is right. 10:27 But I think we need wisdom from on high 10:30 and I think we need to know 10:33 when to pick and choose our battles. 10:36 And I think it's very incumbent upon us 10:38 as Christians to follow that advice 10:44 and to be respectful of our rulers and be respectful 10:48 of those that have been voted in. 10:50 So remember your leaders and pray for them. 10:58 Some years ago, 10:59 I remember being very taken after reading a book 11:03 and seeing a film strip called the Gospel Blimp, 11:07 which told in a humorous manner 11:08 how the whole community of Christians 11:11 got absolutely fixated on promoting 11:14 and witnessing for the Lord via a blimp. 11:17 And all the advertising and the fundraising 11:19 and everything concerning the blimp. 11:22 But after a while, they realized that 11:23 it did become an end in itself. 11:26 With religious liberty, it's very important 11:28 not to confuse talk with action. 11:32 And as I've observed, 11:34 Greg Hamilton and many others like him 11:36 in our Religious Liberty Community, 11:37 I can see that that distinction is what is necessary. 11:42 With Greg Hamilton in his area, they've contacted legislators, 11:47 he's spoken to the leaders, 11:48 he's made a difference legislatively. 11:51 He's put the name of his church 11:52 and of his principles of Religious Liberty 11:55 before these leaders 11:57 and it's made a difference. 11:59 It's effective 12:00 and it's been a powerful witness. 12:04 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2020-02-15