Welcome back to Liberty Insider.
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Before the break
with Greg Hamilton,
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we were looking at the
Bible for some guidelines in...
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1 Timothy 2.
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And starting with 1 Timothy
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and then getting on
to Paul's more general,
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not more general,
but other statements
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about authorities,
and how we relate to them.
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And this is not a theoretical,
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this is not a
biblical devotional exercise.
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It's an everyday,
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more and more
becoming an everyday concern
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of a Christian in any community,
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particularly in
repressive regimes,
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but even in a Western democracy.
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Is it just a matter of
whatever the state says,
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we not only pray for
them where you, you know,
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accede to secular demands.
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That seems to me
that that has some limits,
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but it's being used
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by when the church
state can, are joining.
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Often religious
leaders have said,
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well, you do
what the state says,
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it's your duty.
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You know, often I've used
the term in Liberty often,
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they become state
exhilarates, religious leaders,
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and invoke Paul's words
to bring the people in line.
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Well, and here's the problem.
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If you don't stand
up for what is right,
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you end up becoming complicit.
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It's...
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This idea that, well,
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we'll just do
the Lord's ministry
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and do what's right,
like in Hitler's day.
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I mean, Christianity,
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Christians became
complicit behind Hitler
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and supported him
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for really ridiculous reasons
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in my opinion.
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And so what you end up with
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is a complicity
that's unsustainable
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and unconscionable.
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And so really,
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it's better to
stand up for what is right
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and maybe lose your life over it
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than to remain neutral.
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I think of the
French Underground,
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for example.
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I mean in the
French Underground,
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there was a lot of
Christians involved
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in that French Underground.
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I know a number of
them who were Adventists.
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I mean, you can read...
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What's his face? Who
wrote Flee the Captor?
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Oh, I can't think of
it. Ford is his name.
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But he was an Adventist
communications director
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of Pacific Union
College for years.
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And so I think that
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that there is a time and a place
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to do what's right even if it's,
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you know,
underground type fashion.
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And now,
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would you invoke something
that's very problematic?
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If you go to most history books
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which are not
necessarily always accurate,
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you'll find that the underground
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in those all the resistance
in so many of these countries,
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they pretty much say
they were socialists.
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Yeah. Communists and socialists.
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Well, but that was
the rhetoric of the day.
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It was either...
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You're either a fascist
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or you were a
communist/socialist.
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Now, but let's just
say they were not in total,
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but somewhat.
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That same rhetoric
is still with us today
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even in our political propaganda
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that you see on TV.
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It's nonsense.
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But anyhow, the point
that I want to bring out of it,
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I don't think that
should be a total inhibition
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just because someone
else that's for another reason
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different from what anyone
should agree was a bad policy
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by becoming
party to their actions,
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you're not
necessarily supporting them.
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You're both
opposing, something's wrong.
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Ellen White, one of
the Adventist pioneers,
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I think showed the way on this.
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She was a great champion
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for prohibition
or for anti-alcohol.
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Yeah.
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At the same time
with many of the groups
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that she was working
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with were
trying for Sunday laws.
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Yes.
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Which she was
adamantly opposed to
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from a religious
liberty perspective.
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Right.
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But it didn't stop
her working with them
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on this other good cause.
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She walked the tightrope. Yeah.
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And when we... Which
is what we need to do.
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Well, we're
dealing with authorities,
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we're walking a tightrope
between their claims on us
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and heavens have superior claim.
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Which means the old statement
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that we said
over and over again,
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sometimes we have to
work with strange bedfellows.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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Not bedbugs, but...
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That's funny.
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So but, you know,
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I more and more think
this is not theoretical now.
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Again, we want to be supportive
of need to be supportive,
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whatever administration
say in this country
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that were
situated the United States.
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At the moment,
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some religious
people believe that
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this President administration
is not just being used of God
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'cause they can
all be used of God
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or ultimately the forces.
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But, you know,
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that this is someone
that's sort of chosen.
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A President's
been chosen by God.
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It's funny how...
I wish God had been.
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I mean, that's
dangerous to think anyway.
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So what do you do with
the ones you don't like?
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So suddenly,
they're not chosen anymore?
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Yes. So that's the reasoning.
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See how fickle that is. Yeah.
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That is so fickled. Yeah.
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Well, it's one dimensional.
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It's unthinking. Yeah.
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And for other unthinking people
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that will lead
them into trouble.
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Yeah. It's not...
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I'm not
particularly on this occasion
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saying that the
President administration
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or President is
doing anything wrong.
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Yeah.
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But I'd be embarrassed if
someone treated me that way.
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Yeah.
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That's taking
away even ultimately,
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my own actions and
my own responsibility
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for what I come up with.
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Is it possible that we
need our worldviews converted?
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Is it possible that sometimes
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our political prejudices
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guide our faith instead
of the other way around?
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Absolutely. This is
what I'm fishing for.
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Like Daniel in the
Bible since we're biblical.
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You know, Daniel
wasn't an elected official.
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That's true.
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He started off as a captive,
in essence a slave and so on.
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But he showed his trustfulness
and was given public trust
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under many administrations.
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I can't find and
it's true, he wrote,
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apparently he wrote
some of that himself
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if not all of it,
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but I can't find evidence
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that Daniel was a
political operative.
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No.
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He was there to do
what was good for the nation
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and the people,
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no matter which people
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and which nation
because that were his.
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Right.
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He was being a good steward,
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but his loyalty
was always to God.
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Right.
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And I really
think in our day and age
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whether it's the United
States or in some other country,
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Christian is much safer
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if they've
decided ahead of time.
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They serve God and they know
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what his
constitution if you like,
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have that check listed,
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then living in the
real world as we do
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they have full loyalty
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and have no reason to react
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or reject a leader's commands
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but the reference
point is your constitution...
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Yeah. Your high loyalty.
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And right or wrong,
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I mean, some people would
see Dr. Ben Carson in that role
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or the chaplain,
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the Senate Chaplain Barry Black.
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Absolutely.
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God puts people in
certain places to serve Him
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in a way that we have
never had the opportunity.
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And so we need to pray for them,
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seriously pray for them.
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But what we need to
avoid as people that function
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as Cardinal
Richelieu did in France.
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Oh, yeah.
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Anyone that knows
that story? Oh, sure.
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He was the modern,
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at least at that
time, modern Machiavelli.
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He was a
Machiavellian church leader
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who in a certain way...
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He promised you the world
and stabbed you in the back.
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Was wielding the
power in a secular state.
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I mean, that's religion
at its worst in my view.
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Yeah.
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Some say he was the
founder of The Three Musketeers,
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but that has any...
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There's no truth.
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You're getting a bit mixed
up with Alexander Crummell.
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Well, that too.
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But no it was
that era, so anyway.
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But may be people
don't know that history,
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but it's well recorded
and he was a powerful figure,
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but clearly he was
backwards and forwards
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across the line of
church and state and of this.
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Well, his aspiration
was to be the next pope.
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And in fact did go further.
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He was loyal to the
queen but not to the king.
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Yes.
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We need to be loyal to the king.
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It just depends on
the situation which king.
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Normally in this
world, it's the secular king.
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But when it's
higher moral values,
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it's always the absolute King.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And it's hard for
people to keep that in mind.
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But we need to
because I really think...
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Well, not think.
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It's certainly
staring us in the face
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as the world
gets more complicated,
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government becomes
more if not intrusive,
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more enveloping
of our daily life.
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We need to have it sorted out
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how we relate to
these secular powers.
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Well, you know, it's funny.
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There was a guy
named Jonathan Mayhew
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during the time of just
prior to the American founding,
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and he got up and preached a lot
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against the British government,
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and specifically King George,
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and he would quote often
his sermons Galatians 5:1,
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"It is for freedom
that Christ has set us free.
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Stand firm, then,
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and do not let
yourselves be burdened again
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by a yoke of slavery."
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Although he meant
it in political terms
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to rise up against,
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he was the big, one
of the biggest figures.
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One of the popes spoke
against slavery to sin.
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He was one of the big
callers for revolution
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against Great Britain.
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And so and yet
he was using a verse
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that had
nothing to do with that.
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A verse that Paul was saying,
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don't be yoked by
your selfish, sinful ways,
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be free in Christ.
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And it's so easy
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to call for certain
things against certain leaders,
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now King George III
certainly deserved that.
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But here we have an
example how it's easy
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to misuse our standing
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for a calling that may not
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or may be of God.
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Yeah.
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Now It's a serious question,
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as I say in our age
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we need to look
carefully at this.
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And I think,
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decide ahead of
time the priorities.
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Don't wait till
the political situation
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is so charged that the
crowd will push you forward
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and you sign up
for President Gordon
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and or whatever.
00:10:15.38\00:10:16.91
Yes.
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Because at that late point,
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there's a rationale
that people go along with.
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I think we all have
a moral responsibility
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to stand up for what is
right, because it is right.
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But I think we
need wisdom from on high
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and I think we need to know
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when to pick and
choose our battles.
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And I think it's
very incumbent upon us
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as Christians to
follow that advice
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and to be respectful of
our rulers and be respectful
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of those that
have been voted in.
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So remember your
leaders and pray for them.
00:10:50.48\00:10:53.15
Some years ago,
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I remember being very
taken after reading a book
00:10:59.72\00:11:03.06
and seeing a film strip
called the Gospel Blimp,
00:11:03.09\00:11:07.00
which told in a humorous manner
00:11:07.03\00:11:08.60
how the whole
community of Christians
00:11:08.63\00:11:11.47
got absolutely
fixated on promoting
00:11:11.50\00:11:14.14
and witnessing for
the Lord via a blimp.
00:11:14.17\00:11:17.31
And all the
advertising and the fundraising
00:11:17.34\00:11:19.64
and everything
concerning the blimp.
00:11:19.67\00:11:22.14
But after a
while, they realized that
00:11:22.18\00:11:23.95
it did become an end in itself.
00:11:23.98\00:11:26.41
With religious
liberty, it's very important
00:11:26.45\00:11:28.85
not to confuse talk with action.
00:11:28.88\00:11:32.85
And as I've observed,
00:11:32.89\00:11:34.32
Greg Hamilton and
many others like him
00:11:34.36\00:11:36.12
in our Religious
Liberty Community,
00:11:36.16\00:11:37.79
I can see that that distinction
is what is necessary.
00:11:37.83\00:11:42.83
With Greg Hamilton in his area,
they've contacted legislators,
00:11:42.86\00:11:47.07
he's spoken to the leaders,
00:11:47.10\00:11:48.87
he's made a
difference legislatively.
00:11:48.90\00:11:51.21
He's put the name of his church
00:11:51.24\00:11:52.87
and of his
principles of Religious Liberty
00:11:52.91\00:11:55.21
before these leaders
00:11:55.24\00:11:57.58
and it's made a difference.
00:11:57.61\00:11:59.58
It's effective
00:11:59.61\00:12:00.95
and it's been a
powerful witness.
00:12:00.98\00:12:04.65
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:04.69\00:12:07.39