Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is your program
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designed to get you thinking
about religious liberty.
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We'll be discussing events
in the US and around the world,
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designed to highlight
this most important principle.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty magazine,
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and my guest is Greg Hamilton,
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President of the Northwest
Religious Liberty Association.
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Very good.
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Yeah.
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I've had problems in
getting your name out before.
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But now, we've known each
other from many, many years.
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Years over which
the political landscape
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has changed drastically.
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And even going further
back for when I first met you,
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I came as a teenager to the US.
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And in short order
Richard Nixon was facing
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the music and
then fled for his life.
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I remember him
crying about his mother
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and getting on the helicopter
and waving and off he was gone.
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I remember that too.
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Interesting era. Yep.
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And yet, I like Richard Nixon.
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And he did many good things.
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Tricky Dickie that
they used to call him.
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Yeah, that was his reputation
going into the presidency,
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but a man that had been
part of a Red-baiting Movement
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with the house of
un-American activities.
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You know, Dwight Eisenhower,
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President
Eisenhower did not like him,
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but he chose him.
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Yeah.
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Well, this is often
the case with presidency.
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To satisfy the
right wing of his days.
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But I admired the fact
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that someone that
could be a red-baiter
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from way back could
open up Communist China.
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Yep.
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I was thinking about that
as I came to this program,
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I was listening... No.
he did a very good job.
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I was listening to
an ever on guard opera
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called Nixon in China.
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He was a master
of foreign policy.
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Yeah. That's for sure.
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And when I think back on it,
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he betrayed the
national trust in real ways,
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but most of his sins were
of a personal nature that,
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that if he'd been less
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convinced of his own place
in history and more humble,
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it wouldn't have happened.
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He was paranoid
about the Kennedy's,
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and that's what led to
the Watergate break-in.
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Was his paranoia and...
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To investigate a
political uphold...
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And then
stubbornness to let it out,
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because you know if
he'd just fest up early on,
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you know, time
would have gone on.
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But today, we're
living through stuff,
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many things, you know?
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You know it,
this is not a program
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to criticize an administration
or our leaders directly.
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But there's no question,
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we are all
living in an environment
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that is far more
troublesome for the illegalities
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and the
irregularities of governance
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than characterize the Nixon era.
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And I thought
about it the other day,
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our president who has
done many good things was up,
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standing up in public.
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You know, we're coming
up to the Christmas season,
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I don't know when
this will be shown,
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but he says,
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you know, "We're going
to talk about Christmas.
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Christmas, well, he said,
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"No one is going to be
ashamed to mention Christmas."
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And...
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I say Merry
Christmas to everybody.
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And right, Merry Christmas.
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It's not a problem.
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And he made a comment
about religious liberty.
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And I thought,
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"Is it really just
liberty to speak of Mary
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which is overturns of
drunkenness and revelry?"
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And Christmas which...
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You know, we'd
like to think of it.
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So we're not talking
about Mary Magdalene,
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we're talking about
merry, M-E-R-R-Y, to make merry.
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Right, to make merry.
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And Christmas, like Easter,
that has many pagan origins,
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as it does
Christian, you know the Yule log
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and the Mistletoe
are not Christian.
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Right.
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So you know, is it
our religious liberty
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to foist or
compromise, religious compromise
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or worst to have a
government endorsing this,
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and pushing it through.
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So there's an ambiguity,
even as religion is promoted.
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I see it sort of
playing fast and loose
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with what we should be doing
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to uphold true
freedom and true religion.
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And I think it's part of this,
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this dislocation
that's came upon every aspect
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of our federal
government in the United States.
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See you brought up Nixon,
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you know, it's funny
you should bring up Nixon
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because you know right now
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we're going through
impeachment hearings.
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In fact, the Congress,
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the House of Representatives
is bringing up the vote today.
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They had a debate on the floor
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and now they're
gonna bring up the vote
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as to whether
President Donald J. Trump,
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President Donald John
Trump is impeached in the house.
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I think of the
first time a president,
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it was Andrew Johnson,
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he was
impeached with 11 articles
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for defying a Republican
led Congress and its position,
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positions
regarding reconstruction.
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Then there was Richard Nixon
who resigned to avoid certain
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impeachment in the wake
of the Watergate scandal,
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the break in.
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Then there was Bill
Clinton, who was impeached for,
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in the house for lying
about sexual misconduct.
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Now, all of them
survived the senate trial.
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Now this, and those
are all domestic issues,
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okay, for impeachment
for those three presidents.
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This particular president,
President Donald Trump,
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it's different
because this is the first time
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a president will
possibly be impeached
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for misusing his
foreign policy authority
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in the service of
personal, political interest.
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And what makes us
interesting is when you look at
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the original
intent of the framers,
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their whole idea of
impeachment of a president
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was centered around
the treaty making powers
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of both the
senate and the president.
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And they had to do with,
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whether a
president would abide by
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what the senate
viewed was appropriate
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in terms of upholding
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the country's national interest,
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that if the
president did not uphold
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its country's national interest,
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and actually
betrayed its national interest
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by going along
with a policy scheme
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from a foreign country,
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then that president
was worthy of impeachment.
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That's made clear in
the history of understanding
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the impeachment,
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language of high
crimes and misdemeanors,
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treason and bribery.
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And that's what's
fascinating is that,
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it was just centered on
that one thing, it did...
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To be honest with
you the original intent
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had nothing to do with
the first three impeachment
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trials of Andrew Johnson,
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Richard Nixon, and Bill Clinton,
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that had to do
with foreign policy.
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Well, get back to
the Andrew Jackson,
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not Andrew Jackson, John...
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Johnson, Andrew Johnson? And.
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Yeah, the, the...
Nixon and Clinton.
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Yeah, Johnson.
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I'm getting mixed up
with another president.
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Johnson was impeached really,
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as a blowback from the civil war
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and pent-up issues following...
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Right.
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And that's what led to
my royalty of selection...
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So really, they
had no real call.
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Julius Caesar's Grant.
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It was over an appointment,
he's right to fire one of his,
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one of his cabinet
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which they go
every day in and out.
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Yeah.
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So, but really that with the...
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That it was a very unfair
impeachment and he survived.
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What? Wait, wait a minute.
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I'd like to debate that
with you just slightly here.
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You see, Andrew Johnson really
was turning back everything
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that a civil
war was fought over.
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So when it came to,
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even the Fugitive Slave Act
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and in terms of returning slaves
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to their
southern plantation owners
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and so on and so forth.
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I mean he was defying
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every single
thing that was passed,
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including saying that the
south could go back to the ways
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that they were doing things
the way they were in the older,
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old days...
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Oh, it was a
misguided way of conciliation.
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And it was overturning
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the whole result
to the civil war.
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'Cause it was
not confined to him,
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the whole period
of reconstruction
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in the Jim Crow era
and all rest of them,
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that's a long story
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and many politicians to this day
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would like to go back to
making America great again.
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Well, not.
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Certainly we don't
wanna go back to that.
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No, I'm being facetious.
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But with in some
people's minds...
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Well, there is a
lot of people who,
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who would like to do
that, you're absolutely right.
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But...
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And Bill Clinton's, I
wanna make a point on.
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Nixon's was a
criminal destruction
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and a crime laid behind it.
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Yep.
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But it was not of huge
national importance in my view.
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He made it so by
the way he covered up,
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and maneuvered and all the rest.
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Any one that's
read US history knows
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that the parties have played
a heavy gang with each other,
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and at times it's
directly crumbled...
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There's lots of hanky-panky,
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and most of time
they don't get caught.
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Yeah, it's even
violence involved,
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not good, but
not innate to Nixon.
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But we mustn't
always assume that either,
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otherwise we go down that
road of conspiracy, we know.
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I have this
false feeling, Lincoln,
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that we should
never assume a conspiracy
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unless it comes
out in the light.
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You know, otherwise
if you think that way
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about your
government, then you'll think
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every things a deep
state, everything is conspiracy.
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I don't believe in that.
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And then we'll go down
the road where everything's,
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"Must be the illuminati."
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Yeah, it must be the
trial out or commission.
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Absolutely.
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And thank you
for bringing this up.
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On this program
we've often said that,
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these deep conspiracies...
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Yes.
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Waylay people
and without evidence
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a conspiracy is
just paranoia writ large.
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And they think they don't have
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to know anything
or read anything,
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because
everything it is published,
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every magazine it's published.
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It's all part of a syndicate,
it's all part of agendas,
00:10:04.30\00:10:06.67
so therefore, you
should just trust your senses,
00:10:06.70\00:10:09.44
you don't need
to know anything...
00:10:09.47\00:10:10.81
But any discussion of
the US, not discussion,
00:10:10.84\00:10:14.18
any analysis of US's
history, Timothy Hall,
00:10:14.21\00:10:18.98
Chicago with the regime
there, or the Daley's and so on.
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No, I mean this
being political...
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Oh, sure.
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Actions that are just unreal.
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There's been brutality
behind the scenes for sure.
00:10:30.13\00:10:32.49
But what saves the United States
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as in any progressive country,
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or as a critical mess of
people that are public spirited
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and move into government
to better their fellows,
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not just to help themselves.
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But you know, human
nature is what it is.
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But Richard Nixon,
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I'm trying to give a
pass 'cause I said I like him.
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But there's no question,
in my view, with the Clintons,
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whether or not,
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either of them have
done anything reprehensible
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during their
political careers, probably.
00:11:03.93\00:11:06.13
But there's no question
that when he came into office,
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as he is charged
against this present president,
00:11:08.56\00:11:11.23
there was a move to
get him, no matter what.
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It was, it was just,
keep at it, keep at it...
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Immorality was equated
with treason which it's not.
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No, but it predated that,
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they were
inquires of from day one,
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and finally, they got
him with his moral weakness
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which is indefensible.
00:11:27.85\00:11:29.22
Yeah.
00:11:29.25\00:11:30.59
But as far as impeachment,
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I didn't see a
huge matter of state.
00:11:31.99\00:11:33.49
Yeah.
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Well, that backfired big time.
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They maneuvered someone
00:11:36.26\00:11:37.59
to publicly further
embarrass themselves
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by immorality writ
large and all of that.
00:11:39.29\00:11:42.16
Right.
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At the moment,
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whether or not
you're pro president,
00:11:45.40\00:11:50.21
we also would support
whoever the leader is,
00:11:50.24\00:11:52.87
but whether or not
you politically pro him
00:11:52.91\00:11:54.44
is immaterial,
00:11:54.48\00:11:55.81
because the questions at
stake are matters of state.
00:11:55.84\00:12:00.82
And what you were alluding
to I think is very important
00:12:00.85\00:12:04.32
that they had a
paranoia in this country
00:12:04.35\00:12:06.29
about people coming
from England and taking over,
00:12:06.32\00:12:09.86
in other words split loyalties.
00:12:09.89\00:12:11.53
Yes.
00:12:11.56\00:12:12.89
And the great
quisling to mix a metaphor
00:12:12.93\00:12:16.06
of the United States,
00:12:16.10\00:12:18.27
Benedict Arnold,
that was his problem.
00:12:18.30\00:12:20.40
He couldn't sort
out his loyalties.
00:12:20.44\00:12:22.37
But think about Benedict Arnold,
00:12:22.40\00:12:23.74
I mean think about
his life, the guy was the,
00:12:23.77\00:12:26.78
the general although
was getting that job done.
00:12:26.81\00:12:28.81
The guy was heroic in battle.
00:12:28.84\00:12:30.95
I mean the guy was
masterful in strategy.
00:12:30.98\00:12:34.25
I mean, he really turns circles
around George Washington.
00:12:34.28\00:12:37.29
But here is the thing
about George Washington,
00:12:37.32\00:12:39.12
he liked the guy.
00:12:39.15\00:12:40.52
And he thought he
was being treated badly.
00:12:40.56\00:12:41.89
I'm glad you know the story.
00:12:41.92\00:12:43.26
In fact, George Washington went
to Benedict Arnold's defense
00:12:43.29\00:12:46.49
and trying to make
him a four star general
00:12:46.53\00:12:48.90
before the Continental Congress,
00:12:48.93\00:12:50.67
and the Continental
Congress refused to do it.
00:12:50.70\00:12:52.03
That was the leading figure
00:12:52.07\00:12:53.40
in the New York
area of government
00:12:53.44\00:12:54.90
that was getting at him so much
00:12:54.94\00:12:56.84
that Arnold almost
felt that he was damn,
00:12:56.87\00:12:59.87
no matter what he did,
and so he moved that...
00:12:59.91\00:13:01.24
Yeah, and so he was resentful
and that resentment led to,
00:13:01.28\00:13:05.08
and there's another factor,
00:13:05.11\00:13:06.45
his wife was a Tory sympathizer,
00:13:06.48\00:13:10.89
along with his father-in-law.
00:13:10.92\00:13:13.39
And so that didn't help any,
00:13:13.42\00:13:15.06
and that's also what brought him
00:13:15.09\00:13:16.46
over that sort of
tweaked his resentment
00:13:16.49\00:13:19.23
that was been
building, and so was,
00:13:19.26\00:13:21.86
it was not hard
for him to cross over.
00:13:21.90\00:13:23.83
Yeah, so, but that
was their paranoia.
00:13:23.87\00:13:26.77
Yes.
00:13:26.80\00:13:28.14
And to this day
we have the provision
00:13:28.17\00:13:30.97
that president
must be native born.
00:13:31.01\00:13:33.24
It's for that reason,
00:13:33.27\00:13:34.61
not that there's any
00:13:34.64\00:13:36.34
deeply sacred thing
to be born on the soil.
00:13:36.38\00:13:38.38
Right.
00:13:38.41\00:13:39.75
In other countries,
there's been leaders,
00:13:39.78\00:13:41.48
you know, came
10, 20 years before,
00:13:41.52\00:13:43.22
and they're patriots.
00:13:43.25\00:13:45.39
But this is a residual thing.
00:13:45.42\00:13:47.26
The other thing that I
believe is very much at play
00:13:47.29\00:13:50.93
is the idea of
legitimacy of the ruler.
00:13:50.96\00:13:55.40
And it hit me the other day,
00:13:55.43\00:13:57.33
and we need to take a
break 'cause I'm on a riff.
00:13:57.37\00:13:59.90
We'll be back.
00:13:59.93\00:14:01.27
We'll take a short break,
00:14:01.30\00:14:02.64
and I want to
share something about
00:14:02.67\00:14:04.01
what might be at
play at the moment.
00:14:04.04\00:14:05.54