Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI190451A
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00:25 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:27 This is your program 00:29 to broaden your views on religious liberty 00:32 as it works out internationally 00:35 and, of course, in the United States. 00:36 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine, 00:40 and my guest on the program Greg Hamilton, 00:43 President of the Northwest Religious Liberty Association. 00:45 It's good to be with you, Lincoln. 00:47 So you come from a part of the world 00:49 where there's blue skies and... 00:53 Lots of rain and lots of snow. 00:55 Yeah, I'm being factitious, but weather is a factor. 00:57 Yes. 00:59 You know, nowadays in the world we live in, 01:01 weather is a big factor. 01:03 I was just listening to the news in Australia, 01:06 a natural dryness as they come in to this, 01:08 to the summer, they're not even in the summer yet. 01:10 Bush fires on a level not seen before. 01:12 Well, California is burning up, burning down... 01:15 The temperature in Australia all time record. 01:18 Everywhere you go in the world, the weather's out of whack. 01:21 And I remember, a few years ago, 01:24 Gorbachev, remember him, he's gone now 01:25 and complete with the map of Albania or so, 01:29 but maybe some people... 01:30 You mean on his forehead? 01:32 Yes, he had a very prominent birthmark 01:34 that look like a map of some European country. 01:36 A very interesting leader of then Soviet Union 01:39 and presided over its collapse. 01:42 I remember he made a statement once 01:45 about environmental decline, and global warming, 01:48 and the whole panic of what's coming on the world 01:53 and he says this, 01:54 next time around he said there will be Ark. 01:57 Speaking of Noah's Ark. Noah's Ark. 01:59 You know, the Bible says the world once was vanished. 02:03 Was taken away for moral and other reasons. 02:07 That's interesting for a communist atheist... 02:09 I thought so at the time. Yeah. 02:12 So, but, of course, that's a cultural allusion, 02:15 and if you are inclined, 02:17 you can look in the Babylonian Gilgamesh Epics 02:19 and so on. 02:21 There's clearly knowledge 02:22 of a cataclysmic destruction in prehistory. 02:25 Well, you know, I don't wanna steal your thunder, 02:27 but there's some interesting connection, 02:28 I did a paper on... 02:29 You can add to my thunder, you're on the program... 02:31 I did a paper on Ronald Reagan at Baylor University. 02:35 Ronald Reagan, President Ronald Reagan 02:37 really believed very strongly in Revelation's depiction 02:41 of an environmental apocalypse. 02:45 Even a nuclear apocalypse 02:47 which he believed that God had actually sent him 02:50 to become President 02:52 to prevent nuclear annihilation. 02:54 Thus... 02:55 He came back from Reykjavik, the conference summit, 02:57 speaking about it, I remember. 02:58 Yeah, yeah, he wanted 03:00 to eliminate nuclear weapons all together. 03:02 And part of his reasoning was this whole apocalyptic scenario 03:06 which Gorbachev at the same time 03:08 actually believed in the same thing, 03:09 and that's actually what brought them together. 03:12 Lot of people don't know this is, 03:14 environmental degradation on Gorbachev's side 03:17 and then Reagan's view of Bible prophecy, 03:19 which is interesting. 03:20 I brought that out in my paper. 03:22 And, so many professors didn't like it, 03:25 but I argued my point very convincingly 03:27 and the evidence was clearly there. 03:29 It's just a research paper, I said. 03:31 So they gave me an A after all, but they're gonna give me a B, 03:34 but I had to argue for my A. 03:35 So you and I agree. Yeah. 03:37 This is arguably a very likely coalition 03:42 of the willing for the future, 03:45 that crosses ideological and... 03:47 Can bring Christians, atheists, 03:49 all people together on the common point. 03:50 Yes, there is a global emergency of some sorts. 03:53 Yes. 03:54 In the United States, 03:55 the Republican Party famously denied global warming. 03:59 I think myself, 04:01 it's unfortunate and is mostly on the matter of definition... 04:03 Ronald Reagan would disagree with him. 04:05 But I think it's on a matter of definition. 04:07 But they resisting is a charge of culpability 04:11 that they've pillaged the earth and caused the global warming. 04:14 You don't need to get into that. 04:17 You just say there is global warming, 04:19 whether it's manmade or cyclical, 04:22 it doesn't really matter. 04:23 That's right. 04:25 It's undeniable something's happening, 04:26 and it's causing a lot of panic 04:29 and a lot of expense, lot of dislocation. 04:31 The Arctic is melting rapidly. 04:33 The ocean levels are rising, storm surges are extreme, 04:37 you know, all of the above. 04:38 And I think it's very interesting 04:40 since we're here to talk about religion and religious liberty. 04:43 That one of the, 04:45 if not the major public religious figure 04:47 in the world today, 04:48 the pope has devoted a very large... 04:52 I think it's an encyclical that a 120,140 page document, 04:56 that's essentially on the environment, Laudato Si, 05:00 wrote it about three, four years ago now, 05:05 and it's driving a lot of the public 05:08 and religious discussion in the world today. 05:11 Well, let me share something with you. 05:12 My wife is an environmental engineer for the US, 05:16 United States Army Corps of Engineers, 05:19 and she is the one that regulates all the spill 05:21 for all the dams 05:22 in the Columbia River and Snake River 05:25 for the US Army Corps of Engineers. 05:26 And she talks, they're training for this. 05:29 The generals out there and a lot of the engineers, 05:32 they're constantly being informed 05:34 and having discussions and studying the whole cascade, 05:38 basin, potential catastrophe that's coming up. 05:43 And so with earthquakes, and tidal waves, 05:47 and everything in the northwest. 05:49 And it's a big thing that they're studying right now 05:52 because as they say, 05:53 this is very real as a result of global warming. 05:57 This is not fake news, okay. 05:59 Folks, this is not fake news. 06:00 This is real stuff happening. 06:03 The Bible spoke about it, it says men... 06:05 At the end of time says 06:06 men's hearts failing them for fear 06:08 for what is coming on the earth. 06:10 Yes. 06:11 And we don't know when it will happen but it's, 06:14 the scientists are unified in believing 06:18 that these trends have a radical ocean level rise 06:23 as their conclusion. 06:24 I mean you can't, you can't question it. 06:28 We are told that the Bible says 06:30 that mountains will be removed 06:33 and islands will be no more. 06:35 So that's what the Bible says... 06:37 Well, that's at the moment of cataclysm. 06:39 Yes. 06:41 But coming up to it, 06:42 there's gonna be a lot of dislocation. 06:43 Right. Well, we see... 06:45 Look at the massive volcano eruptions in Hawaii 06:51 and the fogs 06:52 that basically choked off the Hawaiians 06:55 out on their islands. 06:56 I mean, and then the earthquakes 06:57 that responded to it. 06:59 I mean, I really think of that 07:02 and what's happening in Japan right now. 07:04 I mean, you know, 07:06 not just with the most cataclysmic earthquake ever 07:09 in the world history that occurred there 07:11 just 10 years ago, but what's happening now. 07:15 Even the water rising, and overtaking, 07:17 and flooding towns that are no longer livable. 07:20 Well, all the projections I've seen 07:22 even just would continue 07:24 nothing radical from where we are, 07:25 just the same process. 07:27 There's gonna be several foot rise 07:29 in ocean levels 07:30 which would... 07:33 There's a certain irony 07:34 because perhaps the most wealthy people 07:36 will be homeless first, waterfront homes. 07:39 But beyond that, storm surges 07:41 could make many large coastal cities where... 07:45 Around the world some of the biggest cities 07:47 are right on the coast, will make them uninhabitable. 07:49 New Orleans, I mean... 07:50 So this cannot be ignored. 07:52 And since we've already quoted the Bible quite a bit. 07:56 This is intrinsically, inextricably rather tied up 07:59 with biblical in time thinking. 08:06 And I don't think it's immaterial 08:08 that the pope has laid it out as a semi secular document 08:13 with the theological underpinning... 08:14 You mean with his climate encyclical? 08:16 Laudato Si, Praised Be To Thee. 08:18 Yeah. 08:20 And he says there that, I don't quite buy his analogy. 08:23 He compares the earth to our younger sister 08:26 and I think he's little... 08:27 Was designed to link to the Gaia theory 08:29 and the mother earth and so on, 08:31 and the pagan goddess and so on. 08:33 But he says, she's dying, 08:35 the earth is dying and if she dies, we all die. 08:39 And that's true. 08:40 So I can't see anything more designed 08:42 to concentrate people's attention 08:45 and their energies than that reality. 08:47 And you and I have gone at it different ways. 08:50 Something will be done, needs to be done. 08:53 And as always when there's an emergency, 08:55 in fact wasn't it the vice president Cheney says, 08:58 "You can't let emergency go to waste or a disaster. 09:03 So somebody, some agenda will move in 09:06 and perhaps take it in a direction 09:09 we don't quite comprehend. 09:11 And the pope consistent 09:13 with his Catholic world view 09:17 says which you and I would agree with, 09:18 there's a need in such an emergency, 09:20 any emergency to remember God, 09:22 remember the Creator, 09:25 and more particularly here on the environment God made it. 09:28 How do we rediscover what He intended us to do 09:30 and he says part of that, 09:32 is we need to remember the rhythms, 09:34 this is almost a quote from... 09:36 He says, we must acknowledge the rhythms 09:38 that the Creator planted in His creation. 09:41 Which for him means rest. 09:42 Rest and... 09:44 We all know what that referred to... 09:45 Need to explain on them and of course now 09:47 he mistakenly says or no surprise Sunday. 09:50 Yeah. 09:51 Even though he quotes the Bible saying Saturday. 09:53 My view is, and I'm sure you would agree with me 09:56 for a point of separation of church and state 09:59 and religious liberty for all people, 10:01 it doesn't matter. 10:02 We need to avoid enforcing a religious edict, 10:06 even if you think it's a matter of survival that, 10:09 you know, the explorers in Africa or Asia or somewhere. 10:13 You know, very often you read stories, 10:15 I think Ellen quoted him in King Solomon's mind, 10:18 you know what, 10:19 in a moment he says the sun is gonna be darkened. 10:22 And everybody suddenly bows down 10:24 and goes along with it. 10:25 This is a modern equivalent with the scientific information 10:30 that could easily corral people 10:33 to go along with their religious edicts 10:35 because they think survival's at stake 10:37 and they don't sort of think further than that. 10:38 Well, this dovetails with what I call 10:40 the world peace threat to religious freedom 10:43 because I believe that 10:45 under such dire circumstances 10:48 of which mankind finds themselves in 10:50 at a certain point, they will call for world peace. 10:54 That's the only solution 10:57 to maybe appease the wrath of God. 11:01 And that seems to be the reasoning. 11:02 I mean you've heard Patt Robertson, 11:04 some of his famous... 11:05 I'm not living, he made the statement, 11:07 you know, there's a punishment 11:08 'cause of the gods 11:09 of homosexuality in the universe. 11:11 Or I pray to God 11:13 that he wouldn't send this hurricane to, 11:17 you know, Virginia and Virginia Beach. 11:19 And, you know, which is interesting 11:22 as hurricanes have hit Virginia Beach 11:24 and didn't spare it much 11:26 but nevertheless, you know, 11:28 and I believe in the power of prayer, 11:30 so I'm not trying to mock the power of prayer. 11:31 Yeah, I need to throw in something for those 11:33 that are not familiar with the Bible. 11:35 That statement was emotionally understandable 11:37 but unbiblical. 11:38 The Bible says, "God sends His rain 11:40 on the just and the unjust." 11:41 Exactly. 11:43 So we gotta be careful 11:44 that God's not sort of little storm here, 11:46 a little under extraordinary circumstances... 11:49 In other words, everything hits the fan. 11:53 If you read the Bible, 11:54 He's done some miraculous things, 11:57 but by and large, we take cause and effect, 12:01 it's luck with the weather and so on. 12:04 But I think there is a reality facing us. 12:07 We need to shape up and look at have we, 12:10 are we bearing now 12:11 the consequences of certain acts. 12:13 And... 12:14 I think we are, but can... 12:15 The real question is, can man save himself, 12:18 and that's where a secular humanist say 12:20 that we can which they're way off phase. 12:22 We cannot. 12:24 It's only either God's intervention, 12:26 okay, or not. 12:28 We know that this world is waxing old and Bible says, 12:33 God, Revelation 11:19, or 19:11, or 11:19, 12:38 "God will destroy those who destroy the earth." 12:40 I think that is a happening right now 12:44 and so we, the real answer is 12:47 we need to be ready with God 12:48 and we need to do everything we can 12:51 with the environmental movement 12:52 to be pragmatic and wise, 12:55 and use our earth more wisely, yes. 12:57 Will that save the earth? 12:59 No, it won't. 13:01 So that's a delusional mindset there. 13:05 We are running out of time before our break, 13:07 but there's something 13:08 that troubled me for a long time 13:10 by usually religious conservatives 13:14 but politically conservative people 13:16 who are religious, maybe it's the better way. 13:17 Yeah. 13:19 They've been talking about the primacy 13:23 that we've been given. 13:24 The dominion that God gave to Adam to, 13:29 and if you read Genesis, 13:30 he was to name the animals, to tend with the garden. 13:33 But they've run with this and the dominion is controlled 13:35 to do whatever he wants and, 13:38 of course, the capitalistic wing 13:41 or a religious conservatism I felt. 13:43 That means, we strip mind here, we do this, we take, 13:47 and you know it's ours to dispose of. 13:48 Everybody has their agenda. 13:50 That's not responsible custody of the creation God gave us. 13:55 And I hope if any clarity comes out of this emerging emergency, 14:00 it's to be in harmony with the creation 14:03 that God gave us. 14:04 But, the trouble would be if we then sort of bow down 14:08 to the shadow over the sun like the pagans do 14:11 and then enact 14:13 some extreme antireligious freedom solution. 14:18 We'll be back after a break. 14:19 Stay with us, we'll continue this discussion. |
Revised 2020-01-23