Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is your program
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to broaden your
views on religious liberty
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as it works out internationally
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and, of course,
in the United States.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine,
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and my guest on the
program Greg Hamilton,
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President of the Northwest
Religious Liberty Association.
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It's good to be
with you, Lincoln.
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So you come from
a part of the world
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where there's blue skies and...
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Lots of rain and lots of snow.
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Yeah, I'm being factitious,
but weather is a factor.
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Yes.
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You know, nowadays
in the world we live in,
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weather is a big factor.
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I was just listening
to the news in Australia,
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a natural dryness as
they come in to this,
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to the summer, they're
not even in the summer yet.
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Bush fires on a
level not seen before.
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Well, California is
burning up, burning down...
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The temperature in
Australia all time record.
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Everywhere you go in the world,
the weather's out of whack.
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And I remember, a few years ago,
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Gorbachev,
remember him, he's gone now
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and complete with
the map of Albania or so,
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but maybe some people...
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You mean on his forehead?
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Yes, he had a very
prominent birthmark
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that look like a map
of some European country.
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A very interesting
leader of then Soviet Union
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and presided over its collapse.
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I remember he
made a statement once
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about environmental
decline, and global warming,
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and the whole panic of
what's coming on the world
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and he says this,
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next time around he
said there will be Ark.
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Speaking of
Noah's Ark. Noah's Ark.
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You know, the Bible says
the world once was vanished.
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Was taken away for
moral and other reasons.
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That's interesting
for a communist atheist...
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I thought so at the time. Yeah.
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So, but, of course,
that's a cultural allusion,
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and if you are inclined,
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you can look in the
Babylonian Gilgamesh Epics
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and so on.
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There's clearly knowledge
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of a cataclysmic
destruction in prehistory.
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Well, you know, I don't
wanna steal your thunder,
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but there's some
interesting connection,
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I did a paper on...
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You can add to my thunder,
you're on the program...
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I did a paper on Ronald
Reagan at Baylor University.
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Ronald Reagan,
President Ronald Reagan
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really believed very strongly
in Revelation's depiction
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of an environmental apocalypse.
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Even a nuclear apocalypse
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which he believed that
God had actually sent him
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to become President
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to prevent nuclear annihilation.
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Thus...
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He came back from Reykjavik,
the conference summit,
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speaking about it, I remember.
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Yeah, yeah, he wanted
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to eliminate nuclear
weapons all together.
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And part of his reasoning was
this whole apocalyptic scenario
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which Gorbachev at the same time
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actually believed
in the same thing,
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and that's actually
what brought them together.
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Lot of people
don't know this is,
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environmental
degradation on Gorbachev's side
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and then Reagan's
view of Bible prophecy,
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which is interesting.
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I brought that out in my paper.
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And, so many
professors didn't like it,
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but I argued my
point very convincingly
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and the evidence
was clearly there.
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It's just a
research paper, I said.
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So they gave me an A after all,
but they're gonna give me a B,
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but I had to argue for my A.
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So you and I agree. Yeah.
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This is arguably a
very likely coalition
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of the willing for the future,
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that crosses ideological and...
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Can bring Christians, atheists,
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all people together
on the common point.
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Yes, there is a global
emergency of some sorts.
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Yes.
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In the United States,
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the Republican Party
famously denied global warming.
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I think myself,
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it's unfortunate and is mostly
on the matter of definition...
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Ronald Reagan
would disagree with him.
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But I think it's on
a matter of definition.
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But they resisting is
a charge of culpability
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that they've pillaged the earth
and caused the global warming.
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You don't need to get into that.
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You just say
there is global warming,
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whether it's
manmade or cyclical,
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it doesn't really matter.
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That's right.
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It's undeniable
something's happening,
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and it's causing a lot of panic
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and a lot of
expense, lot of dislocation.
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The Arctic is melting rapidly.
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The ocean levels are rising,
storm surges are extreme,
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you know, all of the above.
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And I think
it's very interesting
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since we're here to talk about
religion and religious liberty.
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That one of the,
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if not the major
public religious figure
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in the world today,
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the pope has
devoted a very large...
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I think it's an encyclical
that a 120,140 page document,
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that's essentially on
the environment, Laudato Si,
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wrote it about
three, four years ago now,
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and it's driving
a lot of the public
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and religious
discussion in the world today.
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Well, let me share
something with you.
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My wife is an environmental
engineer for the US,
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United States Army
Corps of Engineers,
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and she is the one
that regulates all the spill
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for all the dams
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in the Columbia
River and Snake River
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for the US Army
Corps of Engineers.
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And she talks,
they're training for this.
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The generals out there
and a lot of the engineers,
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they're
constantly being informed
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and having discussions and
studying the whole cascade,
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basin, potential
catastrophe that's coming up.
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And so with
earthquakes, and tidal waves,
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and everything in the northwest.
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And it's a big thing that
they're studying right now
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because as they say,
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this is very real as a
result of global warming.
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This is not fake news, okay.
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Folks, this is not fake news.
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This is real stuff happening.
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The Bible spoke
about it, it says men...
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At the end of time says
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men's hearts
failing them for fear
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for what is coming on the earth.
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Yes.
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And we don't know when
it will happen but it's,
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the scientists are
unified in believing
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that these trends have
a radical ocean level rise
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as their conclusion.
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I mean you can't,
you can't question it.
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We are told that the Bible says
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that mountains will be removed
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and islands will be no more.
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So that's what the Bible says...
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Well, that's at the
moment of cataclysm.
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Yes.
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But coming up to it,
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there's gonna be a
lot of dislocation.
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Right. Well, we see...
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Look at the massive
volcano eruptions in Hawaii
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and the fogs
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that basically
choked off the Hawaiians
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out on their islands.
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I mean, and then the earthquakes
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that responded to it.
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I mean, I really think of that
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and what's
happening in Japan right now.
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I mean, you know,
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not just with the most
cataclysmic earthquake ever
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in the world
history that occurred there
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just 10 years ago,
but what's happening now.
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Even the water
rising, and overtaking,
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and flooding towns
that are no longer livable.
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Well, all the
projections I've seen
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even just would continue
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nothing radical
from where we are,
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just the same process.
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There's gonna be
several foot rise
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in ocean levels
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which would...
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There's a certain irony
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because perhaps
the most wealthy people
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will be homeless
first, waterfront homes.
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But beyond that, storm surges
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could make many large
coastal cities where...
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Around the world
some of the biggest cities
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are right on the coast,
will make them uninhabitable.
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New Orleans, I mean...
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So this cannot be ignored.
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And since we've already
quoted the Bible quite a bit.
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This is intrinsically,
inextricably rather tied up
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with biblical in time thinking.
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And I don't
think it's immaterial
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that the pope has laid it
out as a semi secular document
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with the
theological underpinning...
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You mean with his
climate encyclical?
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Laudato Si, Praised Be To Thee.
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Yeah.
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And he says there that, I
don't quite buy his analogy.
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He compares the
earth to our younger sister
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and I think he's little...
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Was designed to
link to the Gaia theory
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and the mother earth and so on,
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and the pagan goddess and so on.
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But he says, she's dying,
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the earth is dying and
if she dies, we all die.
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And that's true.
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So I can't see
anything more designed
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to concentrate
people's attention
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and their
energies than that reality.
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And you and I have
gone at it different ways.
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Something will be
done, needs to be done.
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And as always when
there's an emergency,
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in fact wasn't it the
vice president Cheney says,
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"You can't let emergency
go to waste or a disaster.
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So somebody, some
agenda will move in
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and perhaps take
it in a direction
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we don't quite comprehend.
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And the pope consistent
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with his Catholic world view
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says which you and
I would agree with,
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there's a need in
such an emergency,
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any emergency to remember God,
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remember the Creator,
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and more particularly here
on the environment God made it.
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How do we rediscover
what He intended us to do
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and he says part of that,
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is we need to
remember the rhythms,
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this is almost a quote from...
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He says, we must
acknowledge the rhythms
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that the Creator
planted in His creation.
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Which for him means rest.
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Rest and...
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We all know what
that referred to...
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Need to explain on
them and of course now
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he mistakenly says
or no surprise Sunday.
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Yeah.
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Even though he quotes
the Bible saying Saturday.
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My view is, and I'm
sure you would agree with me
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for a point of
separation of church and state
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and religious
liberty for all people,
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it doesn't matter.
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We need to avoid
enforcing a religious edict,
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even if you think it's
a matter of survival that,
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you know, the explorers in
Africa or Asia or somewhere.
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You know, very
often you read stories,
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I think Ellen quoted
him in King Solomon's mind,
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you know what,
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in a moment he says the
sun is gonna be darkened.
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And everybody suddenly bows down
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and goes along with it.
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This is a modern equivalent
with the scientific information
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that could easily corral people
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to go along with
their religious edicts
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because they think
survival's at stake
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and they don't sort of
think further than that.
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Well, this
dovetails with what I call
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the world peace
threat to religious freedom
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because I believe that
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under such dire circumstances
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of which mankind
finds themselves in
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at a certain point, they
will call for world peace.
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That's the only solution
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to maybe appease
the wrath of God.
00:10:57.79\00:11:01.09
And that seems
to be the reasoning.
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I mean you've
heard Patt Robertson,
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some of his famous...
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I'm not living, he
made the statement,
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you know, there's a punishment
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'cause of the gods
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of
homosexuality in the universe.
00:11:09.93\00:11:11.70
Or I pray to God
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that he wouldn't
send this hurricane to,
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you know, Virginia
and Virginia Beach.
00:11:17.37\00:11:19.61
And, you know,
which is interesting
00:11:19.64\00:11:22.01
as hurricanes
have hit Virginia Beach
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and didn't spare it much
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but nevertheless, you know,
00:11:26.51\00:11:28.65
and I believe in
the power of prayer,
00:11:28.68\00:11:30.02
so I'm not trying to
mock the power of prayer.
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Yeah, I need to throw
in something for those
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that are not
familiar with the Bible.
00:11:33.29\00:11:35.22
That statement was
emotionally understandable
00:11:35.26\00:11:37.49
but unbiblical.
00:11:37.53\00:11:38.86
The Bible says,
"God sends His rain
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on the just and the unjust."
00:11:40.26\00:11:41.60
Exactly.
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So we gotta be careful
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that God's not sort
of little storm here,
00:11:44.37\00:11:46.33
a little under
extraordinary circumstances...
00:11:46.37\00:11:49.47
In other words,
everything hits the fan.
00:11:49.50\00:11:52.97
If you read the Bible,
00:11:53.01\00:11:54.34
He's done some
miraculous things,
00:11:54.38\00:11:57.05
but by and large, we
take cause and effect,
00:11:57.08\00:12:01.58
it's luck with
the weather and so on.
00:12:01.62\00:12:04.32
But I think there
is a reality facing us.
00:12:04.35\00:12:07.59
We need to shape up
and look at have we,
00:12:07.62\00:12:10.13
are we bearing now
00:12:10.16\00:12:11.49
the
consequences of certain acts.
00:12:11.53\00:12:12.99
And...
00:12:13.03\00:12:14.36
I think we are, but can...
00:12:14.40\00:12:15.73
The real question
is, can man save himself,
00:12:15.76\00:12:18.10
and that's where a
secular humanist say
00:12:18.13\00:12:20.10
that we can which
they're way off phase.
00:12:20.14\00:12:22.54
We cannot.
00:12:22.57\00:12:24.11
It's only either
God's intervention,
00:12:24.14\00:12:26.37
okay, or not.
00:12:26.41\00:12:28.24
We know that this world
is waxing old and Bible says,
00:12:28.28\00:12:33.42
God, Revelation
11:19, or 19:11, or 11:19,
00:12:33.45\00:12:38.02
"God will destroy
those who destroy the earth."
00:12:38.05\00:12:40.76
I think that is a
happening right now
00:12:40.79\00:12:44.83
and so we, the real answer is
00:12:44.86\00:12:47.03
we need to be ready with God
00:12:47.06\00:12:48.73
and we need to
do everything we can
00:12:48.76\00:12:51.37
with the environmental movement
00:12:51.40\00:12:52.73
to be pragmatic and wise,
00:12:52.77\00:12:55.24
and use our
earth more wisely, yes.
00:12:55.27\00:12:57.67
Will that save the earth?
00:12:57.71\00:12:59.74
No, it won't.
00:12:59.77\00:13:01.11
So that's a
delusional mindset there.
00:13:01.14\00:13:05.25
We are running out of
time before our break,
00:13:05.28\00:13:07.25
but there's something
00:13:07.28\00:13:08.62
that troubled me for a long time
00:13:08.65\00:13:10.59
by usually
religious conservatives
00:13:10.62\00:13:14.26
but politically
conservative people
00:13:14.29\00:13:16.42
who are religious,
maybe it's the better way.
00:13:16.46\00:13:17.93
Yeah.
00:13:17.96\00:13:19.46
They've been
talking about the primacy
00:13:19.49\00:13:23.43
that we've been given.
00:13:23.47\00:13:24.83
The dominion that
God gave to Adam to,
00:13:24.87\00:13:29.07
and if you read Genesis,
00:13:29.10\00:13:30.44
he was to name the animals,
to tend with the garden.
00:13:30.47\00:13:33.07
But they've run with this
and the dominion is controlled
00:13:33.11\00:13:35.74
to do whatever he wants and,
00:13:35.78\00:13:38.45
of course, the capitalistic wing
00:13:38.48\00:13:40.98
or a religious
conservatism I felt.
00:13:41.02\00:13:43.39
That means, we strip mind
here, we do this, we take,
00:13:43.42\00:13:47.09
and you know it's
ours to dispose of.
00:13:47.12\00:13:48.76
Everybody has their agenda.
00:13:48.79\00:13:50.43
That's not responsible custody
of the creation God gave us.
00:13:50.46\00:13:55.60
And I hope if any clarity comes
out of this emerging emergency,
00:13:55.63\00:14:00.54
it's to be in
harmony with the creation
00:14:00.57\00:14:03.54
that God gave us.
00:14:03.57\00:14:04.91
But, the trouble would be
if we then sort of bow down
00:14:04.94\00:14:08.84
to the shadow over
the sun like the pagans do
00:14:08.88\00:14:11.61
and then enact
00:14:11.65\00:14:12.98
some extreme
antireligious freedom solution.
00:14:13.01\00:14:18.39
We'll be back after a break.
00:14:18.42\00:14:19.89
Stay with us, we'll
continue this discussion.
00:14:19.92\00:14:22.32