Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI190449B
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00:03 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider
00:05 with my friend Tony Steinberg, 00:08 where we're entering into it where no man dare go 00:13 no more 'cause we're embracing discussion of abortion, 00:17 but I wanted to get, take it a little further, 00:21 organ donations, 00:27 maybe even population control under the guise of... 00:32 I was trying to think how to describe it 00:33 of injections that's been done, 00:35 and euthanasia we haven't approached that, 00:38 but I think... 00:40 Taken all together 00:41 while there's some scientific advances mixed in, 00:44 the net result is a lowered view 00:47 of the uniqueness 00:48 and the spiritual star like quality 00:52 if you like a children of God. 00:54 Yeah. 00:56 Well, I believe I'm created in the image of God 00:58 and I'm very fallible. 00:59 I make mistakes, I'm not perfect in any way, 01:02 but my belief system is that 01:04 I am created in the image of God 01:06 and I have certain responsibilities. 01:09 And one of the things that confronted me 01:14 is that this idea, 01:15 I know in Washington State 01:17 they call it Death with Dignity. 01:19 It's a physician assisted suicide 01:22 and most physicians are violating 01:24 their Hippocratic Oath. 01:26 Yeah. 01:27 When they say first do no harm... 01:29 And they by taking on a Hippocratic. 01:31 Yeah. 01:32 Then simply become a hypocritical character. 01:33 But then they rationalize that by saying, 01:36 well, I'm alleviating the suffering. 01:39 And my mom used to work 01:41 in elderly homes, nursing homes. 01:44 And my mom when the debate was coming 01:47 through Washington State on the Death with Dignity Act, 01:51 my mom was like, you know, it's not pretty, 01:53 death isn't meant to be pretty. 01:55 And if someone wants to kill themselves that's, 01:59 you know, if they want to do that, that's on them. 02:01 You don't need to make it sanitary 02:02 and bring the doctor and witnesses involved. 02:05 I mean, I think in Michigan 02:06 there is a well-known physician, 02:08 Dr. Jack Kevorkian and... 02:10 Yes, I forgot, he is a Michigan. 02:12 And Dr. Kevorkian, 02:13 I think actually had to go to jail 02:15 because there were issues involved 02:17 in some of his administrations of death. 02:19 And... 02:21 Well, you know, he was proving a point, 02:23 he trying to prove a point, 02:25 but I think anybody 02:26 that was watching his whole career 02:28 could see that this particular doctor 02:30 had sort of an unhealthy relationship with death. 02:33 Yeah, but is that something where we as society should go? 02:37 Should we have more euthanasia? 02:39 Well. 02:40 Well, what should the church say about that? 02:42 It's your interview show and I'm asking you questions. 02:44 What should we do? 02:46 Yeah. 02:48 Well, it's something that we're not gonna have 02:51 a definitive answer here, 02:53 but it needs to be part of the mix 02:55 because these issues of life and death 02:57 and the involvement of society 03:00 and more ominously of governing authorities. 03:04 And remember, the church in the Middle Ages 03:06 was one of the governing authorities 03:09 and horrible abuses were perpetrated 03:11 upon the families of suicide... 03:13 Yes. 03:15 For example. 03:16 So it's not an abstraction. 03:18 I think it's still is a black mark as well. 03:19 And then, as far as the church being opposed to progress, 03:26 early doctors can only find out about the human body 03:29 by grave robbing... 03:30 Yeah. 03:32 Which had severe penalties both from, 03:35 from around the church and several things, 03:37 so it's a funny thing, but like I say, 03:40 at the end of the day, 03:41 I have no question that we're in an age 03:45 that's very knowledgeable 03:46 but as far as its view of the human body, 03:49 it's become very utilitarian 03:52 and the mystery is disappearing. 03:54 Yeah, the mystery, 03:56 but there's still a huge mystery in divine. 03:57 And, you know, when you and I talk about Christianity 03:59 and many non-Christians watching this program 04:02 and it's worth mentioning 04:03 that in practically every belief system, 04:05 I can see or had any contact with, 04:08 they all have a myth 04:10 that we somehow came from the gods 04:11 or the stars or something. 04:13 Yeah. 04:15 It's inherent in humanity to see us 04:17 as above the animal creation there's something special. 04:20 But how do you cling to that when, you know, you can watch, 04:26 you know, the blood and murder of any TV show, 04:29 it just makes us like little doves to be blown away, 04:32 medical programs and you see everything sliced away 04:35 and we sort of just... 04:37 It's no wonder that people are falling 04:39 for the Android, the lure of androids 04:43 and the visionary "visionaries" among us. 04:47 And they're talking about, 04:48 you know, basically plugging us into a computer 04:50 and merging a human being with the computer program. 04:54 Like being in the matrix, so... 04:57 I mean. 04:58 That not only imitates life, it influences life. 05:01 And the matrix was an interesting 05:03 popular convergence of what was slowly 05:05 occurring to people. 05:06 And, of course, the philosophers 05:08 grabbled with it long time ago. 05:09 What is reality? 05:11 What's real? Yeah. 05:13 You know, Plato, 05:15 seem sort of quite now his idea of what's real? 05:18 Is it the cave or the shadow or the real chair 05:22 that sits somewhere beyond what we think is reality? 05:24 Yeah. 05:26 And so there's a very real moral issue at play 05:30 with all of these elements, 05:31 whether it's abortion or euthanasia. 05:34 There's Religious Freedom Act because you're dealing 05:36 with the will and religious faiths. 05:39 You didn't mention it before, 05:40 but even how you treat the dead 05:42 does different religious groups have quite certain ideas 05:47 on how the dead should be treated. 05:49 Not all religions would be happy with, you know, 05:51 with your organs given to benefit another person. 05:54 Yeah or even be cremated for some people, 05:57 of some religious faith traditions, cremation is... 06:00 You know, they all go to Valhalla. 06:02 Yeah. 06:05 But it's, you know, 06:07 there's no way we can come to the end of this, 06:09 but I think we're doing a service to our viewers 06:11 to raise the questions on this. 06:13 It's not simple. 06:16 I think as an overall package, it's very sobering. 06:21 Yeah. There's some bad things. 06:22 I don't think God intended us to be killing one another 06:27 even in the womb. 06:29 No. 06:31 The only thing that I've said in Liberty magazine, 06:33 I throw it in as cues now and then, 06:36 it bemuses us is probably the best word to me 06:38 that in the United States and I've in my lifetime, 06:42 the abortion thing has gone from almost a non issue 06:44 or a backroom scandal 06:46 that we don't want to know about 06:48 to a Supreme Court decision and a regular occurrence. 06:53 And further than that, you know, 06:55 murders of doctors by Christian zealots and so on. 06:59 And my gut feeling is that it's even though it's legal, 07:02 it's gone semi-underground 07:03 and across the some southern states 07:05 are coming up with heart beat laws 07:08 and all the rest that are really a way 07:10 to both bypass the Supreme Court 07:13 and provoke it into a reconsideration. 07:16 Well, and the governor by of Virginia 07:17 going on TV saying, well, they will deliver the baby 07:21 and then they'll be a discussion 07:22 about what to do with the baby that was just delivered. 07:26 But what kind of discussion is there 07:28 when you have a baby there? 07:29 Well, I think you can't divorce this 07:32 from your cosmic view, 07:34 the value of life and God and so on. 07:38 And that comes easy to Christians, 07:39 but what about the Cossacks 07:41 as well as other groups in history. 07:43 It was their standard practice 07:46 to put a child out in the cold water 07:47 and if he died, newborn, that was cleansed the race. 07:51 I believe in the early Roman times 07:54 you could do the practice of exposure 07:55 for up to a month's time. 07:57 Yeah. 07:58 In one month old and, but you know, 08:00 that's part of what Jesus came for. 08:01 He set all that on His head. 08:03 Right. 08:04 And then He even said some radical things 08:05 about suffered little children 08:07 to come to Me and forbid them not. 08:09 And then He said even the most radical thing 08:11 unless you become as little children 08:13 you shall not see the kingdom. 08:14 He didn't say unless you become a fetus. 08:16 No, He didn't say become a fetus but I'm... 08:19 Although it says before you were 08:21 in your mother's womb I knew you. 08:23 Yeah, before you were in mother's womb 08:24 I knew you, but when, at Jesus' time, 08:30 is it the society, secular society 08:32 that was practicing exposure? 08:33 Yeah. 08:35 There were groups practicing children sacrifice. 08:38 Though those things aren't smile. 08:40 My belief system is that 08:42 those things aren't smiled upon. 08:43 You know, I think child sacrifice, 08:45 most of the world sees that that was 08:47 an age of barbarism and superstition. 08:49 But others today are some of what we talked about. 08:54 We just see it as a Darwinian natural selection process 08:59 and we're strengthening the race 09:01 by some of these things. 09:02 Yeah, they strengthened the race 09:03 by getting rid of Jews in World War II. 09:05 Yes. 09:06 No, I don't buy that kind of stuff. 09:07 That's right, I'm in total disagreement 09:10 and then if the issue of eugenics 09:12 and the issue of population control, 09:16 I'm about freedom and freedom of liberty, 09:19 and freedom of choice. 09:21 But when your rights are interfering 09:23 with a third party or another person, 09:25 that's when you need to take another look at it. 09:28 That's true. 09:29 Now there's just so many ways this discussion goes 09:33 and I really hope 09:35 that our listeners have thought a little bit about it. 09:37 But the parting shot 09:38 before I give you another chance to talk, 09:40 on the abortion thing, 09:42 what does bemuse me a bit, 09:43 the Roman Catholics to their credit 09:45 were the first major church group of this country 09:48 that really made a big deal about it. 09:50 And now that's been picked up by others, 09:53 and particularly mainline Protestants, 09:56 but I know there's a difference 09:58 in why Roman Catholics was so fired up 10:01 because they had a view of original sin, 10:04 an infant baptism unless you are baptized, 10:07 you know you're in trouble. 10:09 We don't have that same view. 10:11 So what if you don't share that theology, 10:13 does that mean that you would see 10:16 the evil of abortion the same way? 10:18 It's debatable. 10:19 Yeah. 10:21 What I'm happier with is 10:22 when you cut to the chase and say, 10:24 any gratuitous killing of life is opposed to God's principle, 10:28 and then you don't need to say as, you know, 10:30 is it the heartbeat or is it 10:31 when there's movement quickening or whatever? 10:34 Don't you think? 10:35 So what's your takeaway. 10:37 You know, 10:38 you be my sounding board for a few minutes. 10:40 Yeah, that is my takeaway. 10:43 You know, in my view, 10:46 God doesn't want people to be killing each other, 10:49 and the value of human life is very, very important to God. 10:56 Before He knew us when we were in our mother's womb 11:00 even been before we were born. 11:02 The very first recognition of Jesus as Messiah 11:09 was from a, what we might scientists call today 11:12 a fetus in Elizabeth's womb. 11:14 The child was rolling in the Bible record. 11:17 So from my perspective, 11:18 it's very clear that life needs to be valued, 11:21 and where there's a problem, 11:23 where you're going to harm somebody else 11:26 that's when the law should kick in 11:29 and provide some balancing rights there. 11:34 There's a powerful scene at the end of the gospels 11:37 that a few filmmakers have tried to bring to life. 11:41 But the words are powerful, 11:42 where Jesus around the Passover table 11:45 with His disciples breaks the bread and He says, 11:48 "This is My body given for you." 11:53 Now I don't buy into some theological views 11:56 that would sort of transfer the actual existence to God 12:01 to any remembrance of that. 12:03 But I do believe that that's an illustration 12:07 of the very sacredness of the human existence. 12:10 He, God could put Himself in a human form 12:13 in ways we don't understand. 12:15 We know God's Word tells us 12:18 that we are fearfully and wonderfully made 12:20 and that our bodies are the temple of God. 12:23 At the very least, that means 12:25 that we should look on matters of life and death and of origin 12:28 like in the abortion situation and euthanasia, 12:32 we should look at this with extreme caution 12:36 and indeed, reverence for life. 12:40 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2019-11-21