Welcome back to our discussion
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with Charles
Steinberg, an attorney.
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Charles, Vice President
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of the Northwest
Religious Liberty Association.
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We've been talking
about your background
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and why you became a
lawyer and what that.
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And I think there's
a lot to unpack yet.
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Now I'm gonna
get into your soul.
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I know you pretty well. Yeah.
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But I think our viewers
need to see some more of it.
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What was...
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Again, let's talk more about
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why religious liberty
is so important to you
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and how you can
put that awareness
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into action through the law?
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So religious liberty
is very important to me
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and I'm very
passionate about it,
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because it is
basically the essence
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of living in a free society.
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Yeah.
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We don't have a
state sponsored religion
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in the United States.
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We're free to
believe how we want to.
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Yeah.
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And when
policies are put in place
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by the government
that isolates somebody
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on the basis of religion,
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isolates somebody on
the basis of other things
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that a person can't
control within their own sphere,
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it can marginalize
a group of society.
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What you're saying is
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your sense of
fairness was troubled...
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My sense of fair...
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My sense of
fairness is troubled by it.
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Yeah.
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And also as a born being,
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born and raised
in the Jewish faith,
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I was very
aware of the holocaust
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and very aware of government,
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organized
governments enacting laws
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that targeted a particular group
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based on their religious faith.
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And then also very much aware
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of how important it is
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to be able to
have freedom of belief.
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Yeah.
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I could give you an
example, a few examples,
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but tell me in the U.S. history,
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do you think
groups have been targeted
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because of their faith?
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Well, of course,
people have been targeted
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because of their faith.
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You look in the 1870s,
1880s, the Mormon Church
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has been terribly persecuted
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by the U.S. Government
and even the U.S. Cavalry
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riding down on them
because of their faith.
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There are other arguments
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that could be had
both ways on that,
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but it's very compelling.
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I read an article
in Liberty Magazine,
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I think it was
like 15 years ago,
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about the persecution of the...
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Yeah, it's one of
the ones that I put in.
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About further
persecution of Mormons.
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And it was two phases,
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and I think you
got both of them.
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It was in
Illinois and they brought
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some of it on
themselves by their actions.
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It doesn't mean they
deserve what they got,
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but, you know, they were forming
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their own
militias and very exclusive
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and perhaps not
regarding their neighbors well.
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And so, violence broke out often
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between Mormon communities
and the surrounding community.
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And at one point
the Governor of Illinois
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actually signed an
extermination word...
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Mm-hmm.
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Which is an amazing thing
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and what we think of as a claim
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to be a democratic
country of freedom.
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But the second phase
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that I don't think too
many people know about.
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When they escaped
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and fled out of what was really
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the United
States to Utah territory
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that was beyond the reach.
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Jurisdiction, yeah.
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Yeah.
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And set up Salt Lake City,
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then I wish I could
remember the president,
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but they were sold
to the administration
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as a looming threat.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so an expeditionary
force of U.S. Military
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was set up and sent there with
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and I've read the
instructions from the president,
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they were to rape and repine.
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Yeah.
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And it's an amazing story about
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how this
full-fledged U.S. Military force
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came over the mountains
and were prepared to attack.
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And the Mormons decided
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they would wait
and see what happens.
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So they and militia line
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both sides of the
street and this U.S. Army Force
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under full display
with the band and everything
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marched down the main street
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passed the gunmen
and out the other side
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and it all sort of fizzled up.
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Yeah.
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But it's a good example
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of where
religious tension can lead
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even in a country
dedicated to religious freedom.
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Well, and part of my passion
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comes from also our
founding of the United States.
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In my view, we've had
several different foundings.
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We had an economic founding
with the Virginia Company,
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which is the charter to go out
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and make money for England
and send it back to England.
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And that was the
original impetus,
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not as the myth says to
escape religious persecution,
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that was sort of interwoven.
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And then we had a puritanical
founding that to be...
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to purify and practice religion
pure of the Church of England
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and fleeing the Church
of England's persecution,
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so they can purify
their faith for just them
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and persecute everybody
else that believes differently.
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Yes.
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But then we have
this interesting founding
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by Roger
Williams in Rhode Island
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that talked about a
garden of separation
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between the State,
and the Garden of Eden,
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and soul liberty.
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And these things are
passionate concepts to me
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that when you have
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a government
controlling a church,
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it's not a good thing.
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And when you have a
church controlling a government,
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it's not a good thing.
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A lot of blood has been shed
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over many
centuries on those issues
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and that's what the
United States system
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is so beautiful about
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is that we don't have that.
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And you'd ask
for another example
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of persecution or
government persecution so.
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Yeah, if you could think of...
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Back in the early
1900s in Oregon...
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in the State of Oregon,
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believe it or
not, the Ku Klux Klan
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had a large political
foothold and a large following.
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And they actually kept control
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of the governor's
office, the legislature,
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and they were
very anti-Catholic.
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Well, that was the
three-legged-stool was...
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was anti-Jew,
anti-Catholic, and racist.
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Yes.
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And they actually
passed the law saying that,
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"You couldn't
wear any religious garb
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if you were a
school teacher in Oregon."
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Of course, they
wanted to get out,
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to weed out any
Catholic school teachers.
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And through the efforts
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of the Northwest
Religious Liberty Association,
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we were able to get
that very interesting law.
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That holdover...
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The holdover era of
a bygone era repealed,
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and it's by reaching out
and working with other people,
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other groups to form coalitions,
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to get things done in
the name of religious liberty
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that helps
protect us all, Lincoln.
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Yeah, and even as you say that
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it's worth taking
a little aside here.
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The Seventh-day Adventist Church
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has a very clear
prophetic expectation,
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the end of days
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which Revelation
presents to all Christians.
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And, you know,
we are very cautious
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of ecumenical movements,
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or a blurring, or
adjoining, or an amalgamation,
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or a syncretism
between religious faith.
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But it's worth remembering
and reminding our own members
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that when you deal
with religious liberty,
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there's everything to
gain from cooperative,
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charitable
relations between all faiths.
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That's not
ecumenical in the bad sense.
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Yeah.
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You don't get things done if...
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You don't get things done
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unless you get a
broad coalition of support.
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And if you're the
one pointing the finger,
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there's a saying,
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"If you point a
finger at somebody,
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there are three
fingers pointing back at you."
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And if you're
afraid to talk to somebody
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because they're Catholic,
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if you're afraid
to talk to somebody
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because they're Muslim,
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if you're afraid
to talk to somebody
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because they're
Jewish, where is your faith?
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Right.
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And our leaders,
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I'm excited in
the northwest part
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of the United States,
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our leaders are happy to go out
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and talk to other people,
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other people of their faiths,
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and active and
involved in legislation,
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active and involved in
talking to our legislators
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and our representatives.
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And it helps to
know other people
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because there's often
prejudice and suspicion
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comes from lack of knowledge.
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In the worst case
between countries,
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you know, in the old days,
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you know, the
Barbarian was just a stranger,
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you didn't
understand anything about him.
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So he became a mystical
dangerous sort of a creature.
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So I think this
dialogue is very good.
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You can understand
the theological position,
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but what...
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To me is the bottom line,
00:08:51.19\00:08:52.53
religious
liberties are for everybody
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or if it's not for everybody,
everybody's at threat.
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If there's one exception
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that establishes a
dynamic that could mean your,
00:08:59.87\00:09:03.81
yours or my
church could be next,
00:09:03.84\00:09:05.27
or my faith, or even
just me individually,
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I won't have the right
to stand on conscience.
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Yeah.
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And that's one of
the beautiful things
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about our system
in the United States,
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you have the ability
to stand on conscience.
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But it's easier to do that
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when you're not afraid
of talking to your neighbor,
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when you're not
afraid of enlisting an ally
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to help you with an issue.
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Yeah.
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So as far as your involvement
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with the Northwest
Religious Liberty Association
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and in another program,
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I'd like to get some examples
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of some of the
things you've done.
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But, you know,
what's your takeaways?
00:09:35.37\00:09:36.84
How has it helped you
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and confirming this
early concern for justice,
00:09:39.37\00:09:43.85
and why you got
into being a lawyer
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in the first place?
00:09:45.71\00:09:47.05
Do you see a sort of fulfillment
00:09:47.08\00:09:48.88
to your life's direction
00:09:48.92\00:09:51.45
in working for
religious liberty?
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I do see great
fulfillment in working
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with my life's
direction for religious liberty
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and that being
able to help one person,
00:09:58.33\00:10:01.26
being able to
work in the context
00:10:01.30\00:10:03.87
of the framework to change laws,
00:10:03.90\00:10:08.37
to make it be greater protection
00:10:08.40\00:10:10.34
for people of faith,
00:10:10.37\00:10:11.71
either sometimes
in land use decisions
00:10:11.74\00:10:14.94
that are isolating on a church
00:10:14.98\00:10:16.85
or sometimes
protecting an inmate's right
00:10:16.88\00:10:19.51
to both be a Native
American culturally,
00:10:19.55\00:10:22.45
and also be able to have
fellowship with Christians.
00:10:22.48\00:10:26.76
Believe it or
not, that was an issue
00:10:26.79\00:10:28.12
in Washington State
00:10:28.16\00:10:29.49
where this fellow
that was in prison,
00:10:29.52\00:10:33.09
he wasn't able to have
fellowship with Christians,
00:10:33.13\00:10:35.70
because the
chaplain there said that,
00:10:35.73\00:10:38.17
"Because he's Native American,
00:10:38.20\00:10:39.53
he must only worship
animals and spirits."
00:10:39.57\00:10:42.17
And we were able
to intercede in that
00:10:42.20\00:10:45.27
and get a new rule
allowing Native Americans
00:10:45.31\00:10:48.51
to register as dual, a
Native American culturally,
00:10:48.54\00:10:51.88
but they want to
worship with Christians
00:10:51.91\00:10:53.48
and they were able to do that.
00:10:53.52\00:10:55.08
It actually became a
model that was rolled out
00:10:55.12\00:10:57.25
across different
prisons throughout the country.
00:10:57.29\00:11:00.06
And it helps
freedom of conscience
00:11:00.09\00:11:02.06
because that's
what God really wants.
00:11:02.09\00:11:03.73
Freedom of conscience
00:11:03.76\00:11:05.19
so that people can
make a clear choice
00:11:05.23\00:11:06.96
for what's important,
00:11:07.00\00:11:09.10
serving God or serving man.
00:11:09.13\00:11:13.84
No music for this
stand up, but in my head,
00:11:13.87\00:11:17.51
I can hear the music
to a Neil Diamond song,
00:11:17.54\00:11:20.11
The Story of My Life,
00:11:20.14\00:11:21.78
because he had a
romantic spin on it
00:11:21.81\00:11:23.35
and for him, it began,
00:11:23.38\00:11:26.01
the day you came and
it ended the day you left.
00:11:26.05\00:11:29.22
But for people
of faith, of course,
00:11:29.25\00:11:32.15
life in its best sense begins
00:11:32.19\00:11:35.12
with a commitment
to serve the Lord.
00:11:35.16\00:11:37.26
And I think that's
extended in a powerful way
00:11:37.29\00:11:39.63
working for religious freedom.
00:11:39.66\00:11:42.10
As it was said
by the Apostle Paul,
00:11:42.13\00:11:45.27
"The message that we to
give is the gospel of liberty,
00:11:45.30\00:11:51.14
a message of
freedom and deliverance."
00:11:51.17\00:11:54.34
And as we've reviewed
00:11:54.38\00:11:56.81
some of the
experiences of my guests
00:11:56.85\00:11:58.91
and how and why he
became not only a lawyer,
00:11:58.95\00:12:01.35
but a religious
liberty activist.
00:12:01.38\00:12:03.39
I'm reminded that
all of our life stories
00:12:03.42\00:12:06.52
as varied and as
different as they are,
00:12:06.55\00:12:09.22
and coming from both
sides of the mountains,
00:12:09.26\00:12:11.96
the cold side and the warm said,
00:12:11.99\00:12:14.60
we can all hit
toward the service side.
00:12:14.63\00:12:18.27
God has
something for each of us.
00:12:18.30\00:12:20.34
And I believe
whether we're Christian,
00:12:20.37\00:12:23.14
whether we're
Muslim, Hindu or whatever,
00:12:23.17\00:12:26.37
in our own way, we can recognize
00:12:26.41\00:12:28.38
that we are
working for the divine
00:12:28.41\00:12:30.95
as we work for the
freedom of conscience,
00:12:30.98\00:12:34.05
the freedom to
believe, disbelieve,
00:12:34.08\00:12:37.02
and to follow
conscience in any way
00:12:37.05\00:12:39.19
that may occur to an individual
00:12:39.22\00:12:40.96
is the highest ideal
for a life commitment.
00:12:40.99\00:12:45.06
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:45.09\00:12:47.96