Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI190443A
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00:25 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:27 This is your program designed to bring you insight, 00:30 views, discussion, and general analysis 00:34 of religious liberty events in the US and around the world. 00:37 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty magazine. 00:41 And my guest on this program is Dennis Seaton, 00:44 legislative liaison for the Church State Council 00:48 in Sacramento, California, working with legislators. 00:54 I know you're in a region 00:55 rather than dealing with the national government, 00:57 but let's discuss something that's almost consuming 01:02 the entire governmental actions in the US of late. 01:05 And many people have stood up about it 01:07 all across the country, this issue of immigration. 01:10 And as I say that, you know, my accent betrays me, 01:14 and to the day I die, there's a certain taint 01:17 of Australian about me. 01:19 So I'm an immigrant. 01:20 I've been here since I was a teenager. 01:23 Your family, I think you've got family connections 01:26 come from other places. 01:28 And pretty much everybody except the American Indians 01:34 has come from somewhere sometime. 01:36 But that said, 01:38 since the collapse of the Soviet Union, 01:40 I think, the US is seeing immigration as more of a threat 01:45 than a welcome addition. 01:47 And so, you know, we've got a discussion at the moment that 01:50 while it has a legal logic and president comes on 01:55 who we should let, and how, and why, 01:57 don't you think there's a moral issue 02:00 how humans treat other humans and what is the correct way 02:05 for people of faith to relate to this? 02:08 I do. 02:09 And this is not the first time that the American populace 02:12 or the American... 02:14 America has faced this particular issue. 02:17 One of the more notable ones was the boats 02:20 that were in New York 02:24 with boatloads of people 02:27 that had wanted to emigrate here from Europe 02:30 during World War II, and they were sect of Jews. 02:32 They were Jewish. 02:33 And they were sent back to Germany, 02:36 and they met their faith there. 02:38 So when we look at immigration 02:40 or when we look at issues during World War II 02:43 with the Japanese culture of the people 02:48 that have been here for decades or generations, 02:52 they were rounded up and put into camps 02:56 in order to keep us safe from the Japanese. 03:01 So the issue of immigration... 03:03 In that regard, it's a good... 03:04 I need to throw this in now. 03:06 I was chilled a year or two ago, 03:09 in this president administration, 03:11 to hear some of its spokespeople 03:13 make a comment or a pun that they didn't think 03:17 there was anything inherently wrong 03:18 with the detention of the Japanese, 03:20 and we might need to do such a thing in the future. 03:23 Yes. 03:25 I know the Supreme Court 03:27 spoke on detention a while back, 03:29 and there was even an apology given in some reparations. 03:32 But that's horrible for somebody, 03:34 even if it's just that one functioning government, 03:36 to think that the way ahead holds such a possibility again. 03:41 Horrible. 03:42 And so immigration is very contentious issue 03:47 and has been off and on for a long time 03:51 here in the United States. 03:53 And at times, that's even had a religious connotation, 03:57 the Irish Catholics, 04:00 they've had a couple of influxes, 04:02 but both times, created tension 04:06 and it caused an upsurge in anti-Catholicism 04:09 in what was, in previous decades, 04:12 more of a nominally Protestant culture, 04:15 which objected deeply to Catholics coming. 04:18 And while they were real, historical and doctrinal 04:21 difference between Catholics and Protestants, 04:23 no excuse for the bias and even the violence 04:28 that happened at that time. 04:31 No, there isn't any excuse. No. 04:32 But I think that we're at a time now 04:35 where we need to take a look at how we respond 04:40 to the whole issue of immigration. 04:44 And whether we're in a church or a religious organization 04:49 or whether we're in a political environment, 04:56 where we are in the United States now 04:58 is divided, 05:00 there's no other way of putting it politically, 05:02 and in some cases, religiously. 05:04 And so the issue when it comes to immigration 05:07 is that when you look at what's going on 05:08 at the border right now, it's different than it was, 05:10 say, 15 or 20 years ago. 05:12 The majority of the people that are coming to our borders 05:16 for immigration, as I've read so far, 05:19 are people seeking asylum 05:21 as opposed to wanting to come here 05:25 to get jobs and things of that nature. 05:27 That's changed as economies in Mexico have gotten better. 05:30 Well, you're talking about the southern border. 05:31 I'm talking about the southern border. 05:33 I mean, nobody pays much attention to Canada. 05:35 Or the ocean borders 05:38 where boats and planes are coming in. 05:40 Yeah. Well, yeah. The largest... 05:42 People come in, by the way. 05:44 I heard a statistic, 05:45 and I don't know if it's accurate, 05:47 but I will... 05:48 And it was kind of funny, so I'll just say it. 05:51 The largest number of illegal immigrants, 05:54 people that are here undocumented 05:57 are people who fly in from Canada. 06:01 I hadn't heard from Canada, but I know they fly in. 06:03 Yeah. 06:04 And they are people that get a regular visa, 06:06 and they overstay. 06:07 That's the biggest number of people, 06:09 people that overstay their visas. 06:11 Yeah. 06:12 And so, you know, that is a big problem. 06:15 People want to come to the United States, 06:17 they come to the United States, they overstay their visa, 06:20 and that's the largest number of people. 06:21 And if you're talking about immigration as a way 06:24 to keep people from coming into the country 06:26 that are going to do us harm, 06:30 that's the biggest number of people 06:32 that are not being dealt with period 06:34 is that group of people who fly in. 06:36 Now the issue, well, and the reason I brought up 06:39 the whole divided church or divided religion, 06:41 how we look at things were divided. 06:45 I think that it's better for us not to argue and fight about 06:48 whether we should have a border wall 06:49 or not have a border wall, 06:51 I think it's better for us not to argue 06:53 or the people that are wanting to apply for asylum, 06:56 and the only way they can legally apply for asylum 06:59 is to step across the border 07:01 and present themselves to a border guard. 07:04 That's the only provision that's there. 07:05 Now you can change the law, but it's not... 07:08 That's not the only way to apply for residency in US. 07:11 Or apply for asylum. Yeah. 07:13 The asylum seekers on the border, 07:15 the southern border, 07:16 are coming from Central America, 07:18 generally speaking. 07:19 So the issue is, should we really fight about 07:21 whether they have a legal right to be here, 07:23 whether the United States is full 07:25 and we can't take anyone else 07:27 or should we really be looking at 07:28 what is happening on the border with the people that are stuck? 07:31 I agree with you. 07:32 I mean, we might have opinions on it. 07:34 But as far as the church 07:37 and Christian or religious sensibility, 07:40 we should be concerned more about 07:41 how human beings are treated, 07:44 I mean the interaction of human beings. 07:46 And so the law is what it is, 07:48 and unless it's a law designed to harm people, 07:51 it's the prerogative of a nation 07:54 and the state to set up laws 07:55 to regulate different activities. 07:57 But it seems to me, and I think you as an observer lately, 08:01 these laws are being administered 08:03 in a way that's inflicting 08:07 trauma and worse on people's family separation. 08:11 And you gave a statistic in private conversation 08:14 where someone's saying maybe many years, 08:17 many years before these separated families 08:20 get together again. 08:21 So he had to stay tearing families apart 08:24 even before they know whether or not 08:28 their causes are going to win the day legally. 08:33 Yeah, the issue 08:34 that we're trying to concentrate on right now 08:37 and I just say council when it comes to working 08:41 with this particular situation, 08:42 as we come back to the idea of, 08:45 it's best for us to build partnerships with people 08:48 and whether they're elected officials 08:50 or whether they're governmental agencies 08:53 so that we can begin to address the issues 08:55 of human trafficking. 08:57 But also specifically, when you look at 08:59 from California to the Gulf of Mexico, 09:01 that's basically 09:03 a southern border of the United States. 09:05 We need to be able to begin to develop partnerships 09:10 with people in Arizona, with people in New Mexico, 09:13 with people in Texas 09:15 so that we can address the needs 09:16 on both sides of the border because... 09:19 And then we can begin to develop relationships 09:24 on the Mexican side of the border, 09:26 to be able to say to them, "We need to partner with you 09:29 to alleviate the problems that are happening the border, 09:33 that whether it's education or whether it's medical care 09:37 or whether it's food insecurities. 09:40 On both sides of the border, people can build relationships 09:44 to make that a more hospitable place. 09:47 And the question is, that cannot... 09:49 Not the question, you cannot do that 09:51 if you do not see that 09:54 we have a responsibility as Christians 09:57 to alleviate those kinds of sufferings. 10:00 Yeah, I think I agree with you. You think? 10:04 Well, I'm not sure what you're saying 10:06 that you're saying that... 10:07 Are you including that 10:08 we need to be part of solving the underlying situation 10:12 that leads to people coming? 10:15 No, I think that right now you have people that have come 10:18 that 2,000 miles or however far it is from Central America 10:22 to the US border, 10:24 and they're stuck there. 10:26 So they're stuck in dangerous situations 10:30 where you can't... 10:32 where we can develop relationships 10:33 with the Mexican side of the border. 10:36 From my understanding, 10:40 there is a large number of churches in Tijuana 10:43 that are Seventh-day Adventist. 10:45 As a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, 10:47 one of the things that I can do is begin to find ways 10:50 that I can partner with my Seventh-day Adventist family 10:54 as well as with governments... 10:56 Unfortunately, I think 10:59 that's a reasonable encouragement, 11:02 whether or not it's an Adventist Church 11:03 or whatever. 11:05 There are many different churches and Catholicism 11:07 is very strong in that culture, 11:08 so there's many, many Catholic communities. 11:11 But whatever the denomination, 11:14 I'm not sure you'll find that 11:15 there's any better sympathy for those refugees 11:19 on the other side of the border than this side 11:21 because it's a part of a class division. 11:27 And Christian to be sure, but them versus us thinking. 11:31 And I agree with you on that, mate. 11:32 And I think that it doesn't make any difference 11:34 whether it's which side of the border you are, 11:37 I think that there are people 11:39 that are coming from Central and South America 11:41 that wouldn't normally leave their country 11:43 to come to some other place just on a whim. 11:46 And so I think that we have 11:48 a religious responsibility or a moral responsibility 11:51 to look at the people that are there 11:53 and do something about it. 11:54 And I think you and I are getting into a discussion 11:56 that can broaden as far as the US present treatment 12:02 of the whole immigration process, 12:04 mostly on the southern border. 12:06 I think churches and any moral institution 12:11 have a requirement 12:14 to lobby and to cry to the government 12:18 to execute its laws 12:20 in a humane sensitive way to people, 12:24 not be abusing people 12:27 because many of them are treated, 12:28 you know, that started with a man 12:30 in a Sheriff Arpaio, 12:33 You know, he was really treating people 12:36 badly as human beings. 12:39 No secret because he said it. 12:40 He wanted to make life very uncomfortable 12:42 for these people, 12:44 keeping them out in 120 degrees sun, 12:45 and tense whole summer, and so on. 12:49 I think that it's just a human charity 12:52 we need to cry out for the abuses done 12:55 to the less advantaged, 12:56 in this case, these immigrants in the US. 12:59 But on the larger sense, I think the churches 13:03 at least can remind our society, 13:05 this is not a vacuum... situation created in a vacuum. 13:10 Like right now, 13:11 the sudden influx across that border is, 13:14 much of it is directly connected 13:17 to governmental actions to destabilize 13:21 and now actively to bring down the regime in Venezuela. 13:27 Millions of people are leaving that country, 13:31 and the crisis is drifting into our country, 13:33 but it's a crisis for the entire region, 13:35 and it has a cause. 13:37 It's not moral, but we need to remind 13:42 the uncharitable among us 13:44 and even the government authorities 13:46 here as the Bible says, "You reap what you sow." 13:50 Okay, and see, I think that that's true. 13:53 And I think that we need to remember that. 13:58 Right now, I think that we need to hold our elected officials 14:01 accountable for what they're doing 14:02 and how they're treating people. 14:04 However, we also need to remember 14:06 that we have a responsibility 14:08 to alleviate the suffering that people have. 14:11 And however, we can build relationships to do that. 14:14 It can become a meaningless experiment 14:18 to try and hold somebody accountable for something 14:22 that they're not going to do anything about. 14:25 So I think that... 14:27 Well, US, in theory, 14:29 still is governed by the people. 14:31 And if the people realize that those acting 14:33 on their behalf have not acted charitably to... 14:36 If we need to vote them out. 14:38 We can't require that, and we need to be careful 14:40 it doesn't turn into a political meddling. 14:43 But there is a morality to the dealings 14:45 between these states. 14:48 We'll take a break and be back shortly. |
Revised 2019-07-22