Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is a program
bringing you news, views,
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and information on
religious liberty events
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in the US, but
also around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty Magazine,
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and my guest on this
program is Dennis Seaton,
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Legislative Liaison for
the Church State Council,
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out of Sacramento, California.
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And you and I
had many discussions,
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and I am hoping this will
be one of the better ones.
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Yes.
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And I know our
viewers will appreciate
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hearing a little from you
about what that really means,
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you know, legislative
liaison, what is that?
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You're a lobbyist or
what are you trying to do
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with the
legislators there in California
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'cause that's where
the state legislature is.
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So what's your goal
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from religious
liberty point of view?
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But the responsibility
of the Church State Council
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which has been in place in
Sacramento for over 50 years
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and its goal is to
work with the legislatures
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not only of
California but of Arizona,
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Nevada, Utah, and Hawaii.
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And we monitor bills,
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they're going through
each one of the legislatures
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in order to
determine how these bills might
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impact religion
and whether it is for,
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for any one,
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it's not for
one religious group,
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but for all religious groups.
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Yes, and we've
said it on this program,
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it's worth repeating.
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When you're for
religious liberty,
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even though you and I
are Seventh-day Adventist,
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it's not just a
Seventh-day Adventist interest,
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you know, our view
of religious liberty
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is for all people,
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and if anybody is restricted
in essence eventually anybody,
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any group could be, so
it's all or none, isn't it?
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That would be correct.
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Right, tell me though,
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you know, it's not
a lot of bills that go
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through state legislature
or the federal that are openly
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and clearly
religious liberty oriented.
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You must be looking for
things that have implications
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for most of the time
for religious liberty
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that you can see
the ramifications.
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Often times, most
of the legislation
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that comes to the forefront
has to do with employment.
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So it has to do with
the religious holidays
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that people observe and
for Seventh-day Adventist,
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it's Sabbath hour,
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and for Muslims it's
dress and appearance,
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for Sikhs it's dress
and appearance and so,
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people have a
variety of different issues
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that have to do
with religious liberty.
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Also issues that have to
do with public accommodation.
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So the Seventh-day Adventist
church has a very robust
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educational system
and so when we then have
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a variety of people
there attend our schools
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that are not
Seventh-day Adventist
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or may not be Christians,
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then we have issues
that may come up there.
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What are some of the
more obscure connections
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to the practice of religion
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that you've seen in legislation,
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not necessarily pass
but legislative initiatives,
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what are the
types of things that,
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you know, it sort of triggers
an interest with your comfort.
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For us, it does have to do
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with the people of
all religious cultures,
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or particularly when
I first started in 2012,
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the first thing
that came about was,
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we partnered with the Sikhs.
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And many people think of
Sikhs as Muslim but they're not.
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They're half Muslim.
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Yes.
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It's sort of a combination
of Islam and Hinduism
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with...
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Well, from Islam,
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they've got a
monotheistic approach
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and then they were also,
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their origin was militaristic
which is why they have the...
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So they're
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the spiritual warriors of India.
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And that is where we
came in because the Sikhs
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that we were
working with that time
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wanted to not
necessarily join the military
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although that was part
of it but in California,
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they wanted to be
part of law enforcement.
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That is a long
history with their culture,
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and they were not
been allowed to do that
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because they would not
shave their beards in order
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to put on the mask
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that have to do with
castes and that sort of thing.
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Back on the Sikhs,
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I think it's a
very regrettable thing
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for a number of reasons
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that in the eyes of many
frightened or prejudice people,
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they've sort of
equated Sikhism with Islam,
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which from a
religious liberty point of view,
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shouldn't be determined
enough 'cause we have to defend
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Muslim's right to worship just
as well as Sikhs or whatever,
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but some of, they are
directed against Muslims,
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has been direct against Sikhs,
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so I think you've
done a very good thing
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to particularly promote
religious freedom for Sikhs
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who I think in many
ways are under stress
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in the United
States, aren't they?
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And they are,
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and we see that in a
variety of different ways
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because in particularly
in the last few years
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and where the
variety of different things
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that are
happening in terms of Sikhs
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and how they want to be
part of the protecting America
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as opposed to
destroying America.
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Yeah.
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And so it gives us
an opportunity to work
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with that particular
group and with others like them.
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Now,
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I've talked with you privately
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but I don't
remember this coming up.
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But if you had any dealings
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with the Jehovah Witness's
issues of blood transfusions,
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medical treatment withheld,
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or appropriate, or
anything like that?
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Well not, no, we
haven't had any specific...
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Now you had
problems with inoculations
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or is it bigger
than they are concerned.
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Not just with them...
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That's what I'm
saying, it's not just...
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This is becoming
generalized and I don't think
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it's connected
to any denomination.
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There is a lot
of people and some,
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from a religious perspective
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have problems with inoculations
and different serums,
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and they may or may not be right
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but from a point of freedom,
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this is something
you'd defend, wouldn't you?
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We would defend their right
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to be able to not
inoculate themselves...
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Right to make a choice.
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And it's their
decision to do that but then,
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you still do have the issue
of their right to not inoculate
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and be part of
the overall system,
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and you'd see a
variety of things happening
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not only in United States,
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but around the world
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with people who have been
chose not to get childhood
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inoculations for their children
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and then the current
outbreaks with measles.
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I know and, of course,
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with all religious
liberty and with other guests,
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we brought this up
from a legal point of view
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and no right is
totally unrestricted.
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What was it, the
English proverb said,
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no man is an island,
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you know, we
direct with other people,
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so you can't
allow your "freedom"
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to inhibits or even
endanger someone else,
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so this inoculation thing,
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there is an element of
that and I know at the moment,
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and I think
measles even is coming back
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because a lot of people
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have either
chosen not to inoculate
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or I hate to play into
the precedence preoccupation
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but some people
coming from another country
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without a history of
inoculation inadvertently
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have introduced this so.
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There's a social
responsibility element
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apart from a direct
civil liberty, isn't it?
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When we are talking,
from my point of view anyway,
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when we are talking
about whether or not
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we should
inoculate or not inoculate,
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I think that people
have the right to choose
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for their children what
they think is appropriate.
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However, when you
begin to think about that,
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we do have
other responsibilities
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to deal with
overall good of the people
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that we live around, and
so I think that if you...
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And there are some children
that have medical reasons
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why they cannot be inoculated,
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but for those who
don't seem to have that,
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then I think that if
they choose not to inoculate,
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then there will be,
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they will probably not be able
to have their children at all.
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Now I don't know in
California how it's been settled
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or in the regions that you do.
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Is the state saying
that the parent has the right
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to determine whether
the child's inoculated?
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Oh, yeah, because...
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Well, the legislation
that we've looked at generally
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has to do with school.
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So whether
you're a private school
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or a public
school, generally speaking,
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there are rules that say
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that if your children
haven't been inoculated,
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then they can't be at school
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and that's where the rub comes.
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There's people that don't want
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to inoculate
for whatever reason,
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then they would have
to then make a decision
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as to what they were
doing to do with the child.
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If not on inoculation,
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I know there's a growing sense
in the courts that the state
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will look out for the
child even if the parents not,
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and the state will
overrule how the parent...
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I haven't currently seen
that they're gonna overrule
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they're not
inoculating, but how they...
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But they do, they have
on the transfusion issue,
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haven't they?
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I haven't really dealt with that
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but that's my understanding,
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to say, if the child
needs infusion blood,
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been given
blood they will do it.
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This is just an anecdotal
but I probably fly to much,
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in fact I am
sure I fly too much,
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and on one of
the recent flights,
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I saw an English
movie about a judge,
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woman judge that was
required to make a determination
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as to whether a
Jehovah's Witness boy
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slightly under
18 was court ordered
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to have a
transfusion to save his life,
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and it was very
interesting moral dilemma.
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In the end she
ordered it even against his,
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the child's wishes
and the parent's wishes
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and in the end
he died regardless,
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but there's a
moral quandary on this,
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and you and I
guess don't know exactly
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where the US
authorities are on this,
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but it has a bigger ramification
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which to me has echoes
of even the communist system
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where the state sees
the children no matter
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what the parents role
is towards of the state
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and its responsibility rather
than deferring to the parents.
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So you don't see signs of that.
00:11:01.29\00:11:04.33
I don't
necessarily see signs of that,
00:11:04.36\00:11:05.69
however when
you brought that up,
00:11:05.73\00:11:08.50
there's a variety
of different issues
00:11:08.53\00:11:09.96
that I think that has culturally
00:11:10.00\00:11:13.07
or here in the United
States or around the world,
00:11:13.10\00:11:15.00
I don't think it makes,
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to me it doesn't
really make any difference.
00:11:16.40\00:11:18.57
When you can't see
00:11:18.61\00:11:19.94
the responsibility
of parenting to state,
00:11:19.97\00:11:24.35
that, that's a personal issue.
00:11:24.38\00:11:26.85
However, there are things
00:11:26.88\00:11:28.22
that I think do
need to be dealt with.
00:11:28.25\00:11:30.22
Probably issues of endangerment,
00:11:30.25\00:11:31.59
although like everything,
00:11:31.62\00:11:34.32
different people define
endangerment differently.
00:11:34.36\00:11:36.59
Oh, yeah, spanking for instant.
00:11:36.62\00:11:37.99
Yeah.
00:11:38.03\00:11:39.79
Should parents be
allowed to spank their children?
00:11:39.83\00:11:41.90
Well, it's California...
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Some people that spare
the rod spoil the child
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but of course we understand,
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we even explicate the text
differently that we used to...
00:11:47.60\00:11:49.94
Yes.
00:11:49.97\00:11:51.77
So there's lot of
cultural and religious things
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have come to play, right?
00:11:54.91\00:11:56.54
Our cultural and
religious but I think
00:11:56.58\00:11:58.18
that when we're
looking at how does,
00:11:58.21\00:11:59.98
and I think you
brought up how does the state,
00:12:00.02\00:12:02.75
what impact
should the state have,
00:12:02.78\00:12:04.29
honor person's
personal religious freedom
00:12:04.32\00:12:06.42
so they're just
freedoms in general.
00:12:06.45\00:12:09.36
And I think that we have
to understand that people
00:12:09.39\00:12:12.03
that live together
have to have a frame
00:12:12.06\00:12:15.20
with which in to live
and as we don't seem to be
00:12:15.23\00:12:19.63
too upset that the government
suggests that we drive only
00:12:19.67\00:12:24.41
at certain speed
limit in certain places.
00:12:24.44\00:12:26.94
And, yeah, we do think
00:12:26.98\00:12:29.34
that there's a boundary
by which that the government
00:12:29.38\00:12:32.38
should be allowed to
make certain decisions.
00:12:32.41\00:12:34.12
Yeah.
00:12:34.15\00:12:35.48
And that typically
has to do with family.
00:12:35.52\00:12:37.02
Yeah.
00:12:37.05\00:12:39.42
Anyhow that's one
issue that you say.
00:12:39.45\00:12:41.39
What's come up recently
00:12:41.42\00:12:44.16
in your context
with the legislates,
00:12:44.19\00:12:45.99
what's pending
legislation or ideas
00:12:46.03\00:12:48.36
that are expressing
themselves with proposals?
00:12:48.40\00:12:50.77
Just to follow up
a little bit more,
00:12:50.80\00:12:52.23
I know but you're
talking about them.
00:12:52.27\00:12:53.80
Currently in the last few years,
00:12:53.84\00:12:57.97
the issue of assisted suicide
has come up and that is of,
00:12:58.01\00:13:01.98
you know, a huge issue
00:13:02.01\00:13:03.45
in terms of should a person
be allowed to come to the point
00:13:03.48\00:13:08.48
in life where they feel
00:13:08.52\00:13:09.85
that they need
to end their life.
00:13:09.88\00:13:11.65
And so in California,
00:13:11.69\00:13:13.29
they had an assistance
suicide bill that came through
00:13:13.32\00:13:16.52
and it was passed
00:13:16.56\00:13:18.53
and in Oregon
that also had so...
00:13:18.56\00:13:22.26
Did the church state
council get involved in this
00:13:22.30\00:13:25.67
or you're just
watching at closely to see
00:13:25.70\00:13:28.17
what ramifications it might have
00:13:28.20\00:13:29.94
for civil and religious liberty.
00:13:29.97\00:13:31.37
No, we took a stand
around that this was something
00:13:31.41\00:13:35.48
that it's a hard one 'cause...
00:13:35.51\00:13:40.22
Oh, absolutely, it's
not settled, although,
00:13:40.25\00:13:44.45
if we allow it, it
could easily turn into
00:13:44.49\00:13:46.05
something like the
Nazis in World War II.
00:13:46.09\00:13:49.36
We'll be back after a break.
00:13:49.39\00:13:51.66
We're into some
heavy territory here,
00:13:51.69\00:13:53.63
so we'll see where we go.
00:13:53.66\00:13:55.43
Stay with us.
00:13:55.46\00:13:56.80