Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI190439B
|
00:03 Well, we'll continue our discussion.
00:05 Before the break, 00:06 we were going through the Reformation, 00:08 we talked about Martin Luther, 00:09 something that struck me a few years ago 00:11 when I was restarting the Reformation as well, 00:13 Martin Luther can't be discounted. 00:15 I mean, he was a guiding light, 00:18 not the only person. 00:19 And in the United States 00:21 the link to the Reformation is less to Luther 00:24 and more to Calvin. 00:27 You didn't really, 00:28 if you thought that through a few times? 00:30 Tell me a little more. 00:31 Well, the Puritans and the English Protestants, 00:35 their connection was clearly to Calvin, 00:38 the confessing churches and the churches 00:41 that were far more into the weeds 00:44 if you like, of Bible living, of holy living, 00:48 and that led directly 00:50 by way of Knox 00:52 and Wycliffe and so on, 00:55 coming from, not Wycliffe, 00:56 but with Knox and the others coming from Calvin, 00:59 then the Puritans coming to this country, 01:01 that led directly to what 01:04 we are Seventh-day Adventist 01:05 are part of the holiness movement. 01:07 And, of course, 01:09 Wakefield and the Wesley brothers. 01:13 This was all the holiness, 01:14 was once called the holiness movement. 01:17 And I don't know what your thoughts are, 01:18 but I know as the Seventh-day Adventist, 01:21 many of my peers 01:22 have sort of forgotten their church history, 01:24 they've forgotten how Adventists came about, 01:26 and they read some of the things 01:28 of a few decades ago, and it looks so legalistic. 01:30 Oh, yeah. 01:32 Because they don't like encouragement to holy living. 01:34 Sure. 01:35 Well, you know, this, to me, as I understand it, 01:40 the beautiful aspect of Christ's righteousness 01:43 is really a package deal. 01:46 It is the justifying power of Christ, 01:48 the robe of righteousness that comes over us, 01:51 and it is also Christ's righteousness working in 01:55 and through us in sanctification. 01:58 So this is all part of our connection with Him. 02:01 There's no possible way that you can become holy 02:04 on your own. 02:05 It has to be that that connection with heaven. 02:09 And that's where that daily walk 02:11 with the Lord comes. 02:12 But at the same time, you are justified 02:14 as you're connecting with the Lord every day. 02:17 Well, using the word holy, 02:19 we're automatically holy 02:20 when we dedicate ourselves to God. 02:22 We can't become perfect in ourselves, that's the... 02:24 Sure. 02:26 Those holy who are set aside for God 02:28 and we called to live to God. 02:30 And I think that aspect of the Reformation was 02:33 through Calvin and, of course, he had a few accesses, 02:37 the predestination 02:38 or it's not pure predestination, 02:41 but the idea that sort of God foreknew which He did. 02:44 He's saved once therefore, you sort of hit a time decided, 02:48 I think it was a mix-up in thinking about foreknowledge. 02:51 Because everyone has the opportunity 02:53 of beating Satan. 02:54 Right, we're all predestined for salvation. 02:56 But by actions we can take advantage all our self. 02:58 Right. 03:00 But I do see the holiness or the holy living, 03:04 the upright life, 03:06 eventually the Puritan style of pure living 03:09 coming through that avenue 03:10 and being picked up by Adventists. 03:12 And we came by, naturally, remember, 03:14 there were two Great Awakenings in the US, 03:17 1750 that laid the groundwork for the American Revolution. 03:22 As I read the US history, 03:24 that gave a sort of a holy war, 03:27 a righteous cause type spin, 03:29 and then our church began with the second great 03:32 or out of the Second Great Awakening in the mid 1800s. 03:37 And again, there was a hole in this movement. 03:40 And you know some of that, of course, 03:42 is taken right from Philippians 2:12-13, 03:47 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, 03:50 not as in my presence only, 03:52 but now much more in my absence, 03:54 work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." 03:56 Now that doesn't mean you're gonna be the one 03:59 who determines your salvation because the next verse says, 04:02 "For it is God 04:05 who works in you both to will 04:07 and to do for His good pleasure." 04:09 So everything is connected to God, 04:12 but it doesn't leave out our objective 04:15 of being more and more like Christ 04:17 through His power. 04:18 Absolutely. 04:19 Let me get on to the present moment a little, 04:21 you know, I deal directly with religious liberty 04:24 with Liberty magazine... 04:25 Yes, and thank you. Thank you for what you do. 04:26 You've always been a very strong supporter, 04:28 but as you would automatically be 04:30 because our church has really defined us 04:33 from the earliest days, 04:34 and not just because it was a comfortable thing to do. 04:38 It's integrally tied up to our prophetic, 04:40 theological underpinnings. 04:43 I've seen lately that there's a shift 04:45 in the United States, 04:47 which is trying to redefine itself 04:49 and refine or find itself again. 04:52 But there's a shift 04:53 and I heard it once at a religious... 04:58 I won't say the group, 05:00 but it was a religious legal meeting, 05:02 and they said that there's been far too much 05:04 talk about the individual rights, 05:06 conscience rights in the United States. 05:08 Not enough about 05:09 the corporate rights of the church, 05:12 and my spine tangled, 05:13 because that's the thinking of the medieval church, 05:15 that's the pre-Reformation era. 05:18 And I can see where we're heading now in the US, 05:23 it's particularly is a good time, 05:25 but a dangerous time. 05:26 And people have forgotten 05:28 even how the constitution came about. 05:31 They don't remember clearly how the Reformation came. 05:34 We need security, 05:35 we're troubled by the secularization 05:38 and I think some people are in essence 05:40 allowing religious forces, 05:42 sometimes whole institutions 05:44 to sort of reach out to the legislators and say, 05:46 "We want this super law, we want that super law." 05:50 Now in private I was telling you that, 05:53 I'm troubled that I've seen a few YouTube videos 05:57 where they've taken your comments out of context 06:00 what you were saying. 06:02 Unfortunately it happens. 06:03 Yeah, what all of us will say at one time or another that, 06:05 right now there is no direct Sunday legislation 06:08 before any national, federal government body 06:13 that is certainly not the senate 06:14 or the Congress and the Supreme Court 06:16 don't legislate from the bench in spite of what people say. 06:18 So, you know, on the face of it, 06:20 as they quoted you, "No Sunday law." 06:23 But the story doesn't stop there, does it? 06:24 No. 06:26 The dynamic has shifted with growing forces 06:29 that have redefined the Reformation, 06:31 redefined what it is to be an American thinking 06:35 Christian nation or Christian society 06:38 should mean Christian nation a government dedicated 06:41 to advancing by law, certain form of faith. 06:44 This is all coming together with the present emergencies, 06:47 post 9/11, one disaster after another, 06:50 political instability. 06:52 And I see ongoing evidence 06:55 that there are any number of groups 06:57 that want to in essence legislate their version 07:00 of what it is to be a holy nation. 07:03 They go under the title sometime of as... 07:07 Well, the Christian reconstructionists 07:09 are the most retrograde, 07:11 there's sort of an Old Testament sharia, 07:13 Christian sharia type, 07:14 they want the Old Testament here. 07:16 But many Christians have taken the view of dominionist 07:20 that they, you know, 07:21 we were given dominion over the world 07:22 and this is a Christian nation therefore, let's legislate. 07:26 And you and I are Seventh-day Adventists, 07:28 we have some inklings, don't we in Revelation 07:31 and even in Revelation 14 07:33 that the arm of the law will be used again 07:35 at the end of time 07:38 to require people to worship a certain way. 07:41 Absolutely, in fact, 07:44 the prophecies in the Book of Daniel 07:46 and Revelation are so clear 07:49 in terms of how that 07:52 church and state relationship 07:54 will ultimately bring about a forced kind of worship, 07:59 which of course is going against everything 08:02 regarding freedom of conscience and religious liberty. 08:05 I believe completely in what the prophetic 08:08 understanding of Daniel and Revelation portrays. 08:12 I believe, explicitly, 08:14 in what that beautiful book 08:16 The Great Controversy by Ellen G. White 08:19 indicates will happen. 08:20 Sunday laws and persecution 08:23 and forced worship in a certain direction 08:26 will absolutely be in reality. 08:30 Right now, we do not see that 08:33 in public display in terms of particular legislation, 08:37 but it certainly is somewhere in the movement. 08:43 The last events are going to be very rapid. 08:47 So I don't understand anyone who says, well, you know, 08:51 why you say this or that. 08:53 We don't see it explicitly, 08:56 but we know it's coming 08:58 and we need to prepare through a study of God's Word. 09:01 Now, anybody that's listening, 09:02 has heard any number of public officials 09:04 in the last few months say openly, 09:05 they don't believe in the separation 09:07 of church and state, 09:08 which has been a great protective element for the US. 09:11 And a blessing. 09:12 Anyone that's reading a little more widely knows 09:14 that some of these same religious groups 09:17 that are whispering into the air of power, 09:19 or also whispering in countries in Africa in particular, 09:23 and when they leave the government leaders 09:26 they're excited that it was their influence 09:28 that led them to pass laws, 09:29 giving the death penalty say for gay behavior, 09:31 which no Christian could condemn. 09:33 But it's not given to us to execute people 09:35 for disobeying moral laws anymore. 09:38 So we know the lay of the land and I shared with you recently, 09:42 some of the documents 09:44 that are coming out of Rome with us, 09:45 you know, there's a breath of fresh air 09:46 on a certain level. 09:48 I am very excited that Rome seems to have discovered 09:51 what the first angel's message says that 09:53 this is the era to call attention 09:56 to the Creator 09:58 and in a document in 2015, 10:02 no doubt, I see the pope there says 10:04 that the whole world needs to pay attention 10:07 to this issue of global degradation 10:09 for our very survival. 10:11 And he says, we need to find again, 10:12 the rhythms inscribed in nature by the Creator, 10:16 the Seventh-day Sabbath. 10:17 He's right on the mark, except unfortunately, 10:20 Sunday comes up. 10:21 Well, people have a right to think differently, 10:24 but the Bible never gives 10:26 cause to think of any other day than the seventh-day Sabbath. 10:28 Absolutely. 10:30 And it seems as 10:31 if we're remembering the Creator, 10:32 in Genesis, which was 10:35 to all mankind then it says 10:36 that the seventh day was hallowed, 10:38 is a memorial of creation. 10:40 So I see some signs 10:41 that this is coming to the head globally. 10:44 Absolutely. 10:45 I travelled all over the world 10:47 and I know that there are many things developing, 10:50 which are forcing us to the very end of time, 10:53 and I believe it with all my heart. 10:55 So we need to keep our eyes open, 10:58 we need to speak where we can 11:00 to help, protect, religious freedom, 11:02 but know that oppression, persecution, 11:06 and Sunday laws and other laws, 11:09 which will force individuals they are coming. 11:12 Force people to go against their conscience, 11:14 that's why the only protection 11:17 against this is constant vigilance 11:20 and a complete belief in God's power to save us. 11:24 And to see God's leading in history 11:26 but to see a counterforce 11:27 that will bring in false Sabbath 11:29 and a false religious liberty 11:31 with compulsion rather than free will. 11:34 It's a privilege to talk to you as always and... 11:36 Thank you. 11:37 I know our viewers will appreciate this 11:39 and these are exciting times. 11:41 They are. 11:42 And the Sunday law is just one of it. 11:44 But as I've told people, one litmus test is 11:46 on religious liberty is if there is coercion 11:49 or force involved, that's not from God. 11:51 You're right. You're right. 11:53 As the Bible says elsewhere, I think is it Ezekiel? 11:56 You know, millions in the valley of decision. 11:58 This is the time we live among, 11:59 people are making up their minds 12:02 because there's a lot riding in it. 12:04 And back to the period of history 12:06 that I love the time of the English Civil War 12:09 and the Puritans actually gained political power 12:12 the wrong way. 12:14 But a large group of them 12:15 were called the Fifth Monarchy Men, 12:17 and they were looking at that image of Daniel too... 12:19 Well before Adventists used to have their charts 12:22 and they believe they were in the fifth and final kingdom, 12:25 that's feet of iron and of clay 12:27 and God's kingdom was about to replace it. 12:29 I believe, where they really not as they thought 12:32 they were with it. 12:34 We're in the toes. 12:35 The end of the toes. 12:36 Thank you very much. 12:38 Been a privilege to be with you. 12:40 Stay with us. 12:43 That Reformation wall in Geneva 12:47 was certainly an inspiration to me. 12:48 And I will not forget standing there, 12:51 staring at those memorials of the heroes 12:54 of the Reformation, 12:56 John Calvin towering figure, 12:58 Oliver Cromwell, one of my heroes 13:00 and, of course, Roger Williams, 13:02 the connection to Protestantism in America. 13:05 But really, it doesn't end there 13:07 by any means. 13:09 And as Paul said, 13:10 in the New Testament, 13:11 the heroes of faith 13:13 through the ages stand as guides for us 13:15 as we move toward the culmination of all things 13:18 at the second coming of Jesus Christ. 13:21 Protestantism is not something of the past. 13:25 The faith that they held forth is the eternal faith 13:28 and the confidence that we can have 13:31 was what they left to us. 13:34 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2019-07-22