Well, we'll
continue our discussion.
00:00:03.67\00:00:05.27
Before the break,
00:00:05.30\00:00:06.63
we were going
through the Reformation,
00:00:06.67\00:00:08.00
we talked about Martin Luther,
00:00:08.04\00:00:09.54
something that
struck me a few years ago
00:00:09.57\00:00:11.51
when I was restarting
the Reformation as well,
00:00:11.54\00:00:13.58
Martin Luther
can't be discounted.
00:00:13.61\00:00:15.54
I mean, he was a guiding light,
00:00:15.58\00:00:18.11
not the only person.
00:00:18.15\00:00:19.75
And in the United States
00:00:19.78\00:00:21.52
the link to the
Reformation is less to Luther
00:00:21.55\00:00:24.49
and more to Calvin.
00:00:24.52\00:00:27.29
You didn't really,
00:00:27.32\00:00:28.66
if you thought that
through a few times?
00:00:28.69\00:00:30.03
Tell me a little more.
00:00:30.06\00:00:31.39
Well, the Puritans and
the English Protestants,
00:00:31.43\00:00:35.00
their connection
was clearly to Calvin,
00:00:35.03\00:00:38.30
the confessing
churches and the churches
00:00:38.33\00:00:41.34
that were far
more into the weeds
00:00:41.37\00:00:44.71
if you like, of Bible
living, of holy living,
00:00:44.74\00:00:48.28
and that led directly
00:00:48.31\00:00:50.45
by way of Knox
00:00:50.48\00:00:52.45
and Wycliffe and so on,
00:00:52.48\00:00:55.15
coming from, not Wycliffe,
00:00:55.18\00:00:56.92
but with Knox and the
others coming from Calvin,
00:00:56.95\00:00:59.49
then the Puritans
coming to this country,
00:00:59.52\00:01:01.82
that led directly to what
00:01:01.86\00:01:04.19
we are Seventh-day Adventist
00:01:04.23\00:01:05.56
are part of the
holiness movement.
00:01:05.59\00:01:07.76
And, of course,
00:01:07.80\00:01:09.13
Wakefield and
the Wesley brothers.
00:01:09.16\00:01:13.57
This was all the holiness,
00:01:13.60\00:01:14.94
was once called
the holiness movement.
00:01:14.97\00:01:17.11
And I don't know
what your thoughts are,
00:01:17.14\00:01:18.91
but I know as the
Seventh-day Adventist,
00:01:18.94\00:01:20.98
many of my peers
00:01:21.01\00:01:22.64
have sort of
forgotten their church history,
00:01:22.68\00:01:24.31
they've forgotten how
Adventists came about,
00:01:24.35\00:01:26.45
and they read some of the things
00:01:26.48\00:01:28.28
of a few decades ago,
and it looks so legalistic.
00:01:28.32\00:01:30.69
Oh, yeah.
00:01:30.72\00:01:32.05
Because they don't like
encouragement to holy living.
00:01:32.09\00:01:34.52
Sure.
00:01:34.56\00:01:35.89
Well, you know, this,
to me, as I understand it,
00:01:35.92\00:01:40.13
the beautiful aspect
of Christ's righteousness
00:01:40.16\00:01:43.47
is really a package deal.
00:01:43.50\00:01:46.27
It is the
justifying power of Christ,
00:01:46.30\00:01:48.67
the robe of righteousness
that comes over us,
00:01:48.70\00:01:51.27
and it is also Christ's
righteousness working in
00:01:51.31\00:01:55.01
and through us
in sanctification.
00:01:55.04\00:01:58.08
So this is all part of
our connection with Him.
00:01:58.11\00:02:01.28
There's no possible way
that you can become holy
00:02:01.32\00:02:04.59
on your own.
00:02:04.62\00:02:05.95
It has to be that that
connection with heaven.
00:02:05.99\00:02:09.06
And that's where that daily walk
00:02:09.09\00:02:11.36
with the Lord comes.
00:02:11.39\00:02:12.73
But at the same
time, you are justified
00:02:12.76\00:02:14.90
as you're connecting
with the Lord every day.
00:02:14.93\00:02:17.37
Well, using the word holy,
00:02:17.40\00:02:19.50
we're automatically holy
00:02:19.53\00:02:20.87
when we dedicate
ourselves to God.
00:02:20.90\00:02:22.54
We can't become perfect
in ourselves, that's the...
00:02:22.57\00:02:24.61
Sure.
00:02:24.64\00:02:26.11
Those holy who
are set aside for God
00:02:26.14\00:02:28.38
and we called to live to God.
00:02:28.41\00:02:30.75
And I think that
aspect of the Reformation was
00:02:30.78\00:02:33.31
through Calvin and, of
course, he had a few accesses,
00:02:33.35\00:02:37.09
the predestination
00:02:37.12\00:02:38.55
or it's not pure predestination,
00:02:38.59\00:02:41.09
but the idea that sort of
God foreknew which He did.
00:02:41.12\00:02:44.69
He's saved once therefore,
you sort of hit a time decided,
00:02:44.73\00:02:48.10
I think it was a mix-up in
thinking about foreknowledge.
00:02:48.13\00:02:51.90
Because everyone
has the opportunity
00:02:51.93\00:02:53.27
of beating Satan.
00:02:53.30\00:02:54.64
Right, we're all
predestined for salvation.
00:02:54.67\00:02:56.37
But by actions we can
take advantage all our self.
00:02:56.40\00:02:58.91
Right.
00:02:58.94\00:03:00.64
But I do see the
holiness or the holy living,
00:03:00.68\00:03:04.68
the upright life,
00:03:04.71\00:03:06.51
eventually the
Puritan style of pure living
00:03:06.55\00:03:09.58
coming through that avenue
00:03:09.62\00:03:10.95
and being picked
up by Adventists.
00:03:10.99\00:03:12.85
And we came by,
naturally, remember,
00:03:12.89\00:03:14.76
there were two Great
Awakenings in the US,
00:03:14.79\00:03:17.79
1750 that laid the groundwork
for the American Revolution.
00:03:17.83\00:03:22.80
As I read the US history,
00:03:22.83\00:03:24.67
that gave a sort of a holy war,
00:03:24.70\00:03:27.34
a righteous cause type spin,
00:03:27.37\00:03:29.50
and then our church
began with the second great
00:03:29.54\00:03:32.51
or out of the Second Great
Awakening in the mid 1800s.
00:03:32.54\00:03:37.95
And again, there was
a hole in this movement.
00:03:37.98\00:03:40.88
And you know some
of that, of course,
00:03:40.92\00:03:42.38
is taken right from
Philippians 2:12-13,
00:03:42.42\00:03:47.96
"Therefore, my beloved,
as you have always obeyed,
00:03:47.99\00:03:50.53
not as in my presence only,
00:03:50.56\00:03:52.23
but now much more in my absence,
00:03:52.26\00:03:54.30
work out your own salvation
with fear and trembling."
00:03:54.33\00:03:56.93
Now that doesn't mean
you're gonna be the one
00:03:56.97\00:03:59.17
who determines your salvation
because the next verse says,
00:03:59.20\00:04:02.94
"For it is God
00:04:02.97\00:04:04.97
who works in you both to will
00:04:05.01\00:04:07.71
and to do for
His good pleasure."
00:04:07.74\00:04:09.64
So everything is
connected to God,
00:04:09.68\00:04:12.05
but it doesn't
leave out our objective
00:04:12.08\00:04:15.55
of being more
and more like Christ
00:04:15.58\00:04:17.15
through His power.
00:04:17.19\00:04:18.52
Absolutely.
00:04:18.55\00:04:19.89
Let me get on to the
present moment a little,
00:04:19.92\00:04:21.82
you know, I deal
directly with religious liberty
00:04:21.86\00:04:24.13
with Liberty magazine...
00:04:24.16\00:04:25.49
Yes, and thank you.
Thank you for what you do.
00:04:25.53\00:04:26.86
You've always been a
very strong supporter,
00:04:26.90\00:04:28.23
but as you
would automatically be
00:04:28.26\00:04:30.27
because our church
has really defined us
00:04:30.30\00:04:33.37
from the earliest days,
00:04:33.40\00:04:34.94
and not just because it
was a comfortable thing to do.
00:04:34.97\00:04:38.21
It's integrally
tied up to our prophetic,
00:04:38.24\00:04:40.94
theological underpinnings.
00:04:40.98\00:04:43.45
I've seen lately
that there's a shift
00:04:43.48\00:04:45.68
in the United States,
00:04:45.71\00:04:47.05
which is trying
to redefine itself
00:04:47.08\00:04:49.48
and refine or find itself again.
00:04:49.52\00:04:52.05
But there's a shift
00:04:52.09\00:04:53.42
and I heard it
once at a religious...
00:04:53.46\00:04:55.66
I won't say the group,
00:04:58.83\00:05:00.16
but it was a
religious legal meeting,
00:05:00.20\00:05:02.33
and they said that
there's been far too much
00:05:02.36\00:05:04.47
talk about the
individual rights,
00:05:04.50\00:05:06.33
conscience rights
in the United States.
00:05:06.37\00:05:08.04
Not enough about
00:05:08.07\00:05:09.84
the corporate
rights of the church,
00:05:09.87\00:05:12.27
and my spine tangled,
00:05:12.31\00:05:13.64
because that's the
thinking of the medieval church,
00:05:13.68\00:05:15.74
that's the pre-Reformation era.
00:05:15.78\00:05:18.31
And I can see where
we're heading now in the US,
00:05:18.35\00:05:23.25
it's
particularly is a good time,
00:05:23.28\00:05:24.99
but a dangerous time.
00:05:25.02\00:05:26.89
And people have forgotten
00:05:26.92\00:05:28.62
even how the
constitution came about.
00:05:28.66\00:05:31.19
They don't remember clearly
how the Reformation came.
00:05:31.23\00:05:34.50
We need security,
00:05:34.53\00:05:35.86
we're troubled by
the secularization
00:05:35.90\00:05:38.50
and I think some
people are in essence
00:05:38.53\00:05:40.80
allowing religious forces,
00:05:40.84\00:05:42.37
sometimes whole institutions
00:05:42.40\00:05:44.17
to sort of reach out to
the legislators and say,
00:05:44.21\00:05:46.68
"We want this super
law, we want that super law."
00:05:46.71\00:05:50.11
Now in private I
was telling you that,
00:05:50.15\00:05:53.38
I'm troubled that I've
seen a few YouTube videos
00:05:53.42\00:05:57.42
where they've taken
your comments out of context
00:05:57.45\00:06:00.66
what you were saying.
00:06:00.69\00:06:02.02
Unfortunately it happens.
00:06:02.06\00:06:03.39
Yeah, what all of us will
say at one time or another that,
00:06:03.43\00:06:05.19
right now there is no
direct Sunday legislation
00:06:05.23\00:06:08.86
before any national,
federal government body
00:06:08.90\00:06:13.13
that is certainly not the senate
00:06:13.17\00:06:14.50
or the Congress
and the Supreme Court
00:06:14.54\00:06:16.04
don't legislate from the bench
in spite of what people say.
00:06:16.07\00:06:18.87
So, you know, on the face of it,
00:06:18.91\00:06:20.74
as they quoted
you, "No Sunday law."
00:06:20.78\00:06:23.04
But the story
doesn't stop there, does it?
00:06:23.08\00:06:24.71
No.
00:06:24.75\00:06:26.08
The dynamic has
shifted with growing forces
00:06:26.11\00:06:29.12
that have
redefined the Reformation,
00:06:29.15\00:06:31.32
redefined what it is
to be an American thinking
00:06:31.35\00:06:35.42
Christian nation
or Christian society
00:06:35.46\00:06:38.39
should mean Christian
nation a government dedicated
00:06:38.43\00:06:41.06
to advancing by law,
certain form of faith.
00:06:41.10\00:06:44.53
This is all coming together
with the present emergencies,
00:06:44.57\00:06:47.70
post 9/11, one
disaster after another,
00:06:47.74\00:06:50.81
political instability.
00:06:50.84\00:06:52.57
And I see ongoing evidence
00:06:52.61\00:06:55.41
that there are
any number of groups
00:06:55.44\00:06:57.08
that want to in
essence legislate their version
00:06:57.11\00:07:00.52
of what it is to
be a holy nation.
00:07:00.55\00:07:03.79
They go under the
title sometime of as...
00:07:03.82\00:07:07.42
Well, the
Christian reconstructionists
00:07:07.46\00:07:09.36
are the most retrograde,
00:07:09.39\00:07:10.99
there's sort of an
Old Testament sharia,
00:07:11.03\00:07:13.36
Christian sharia type,
00:07:13.40\00:07:14.80
they want the
Old Testament here.
00:07:14.83\00:07:16.56
But many Christians have
taken the view of dominionist
00:07:16.60\00:07:20.14
that they, you know,
00:07:20.17\00:07:21.50
we were given
dominion over the world
00:07:21.54\00:07:22.90
and this is a Christian nation
therefore, let's legislate.
00:07:22.94\00:07:26.47
And you and I are
Seventh-day Adventists,
00:07:26.51\00:07:28.44
we have some
inklings, don't we in Revelation
00:07:28.48\00:07:31.28
and even in Revelation 14
00:07:31.31\00:07:33.92
that the arm of the
law will be used again
00:07:33.95\00:07:35.78
at the end of time
00:07:35.82\00:07:38.12
to require people to
worship a certain way.
00:07:38.15\00:07:41.19
Absolutely, in fact,
00:07:41.22\00:07:44.09
the prophecies in
the Book of Daniel
00:07:44.13\00:07:46.29
and Revelation are so clear
00:07:46.33\00:07:49.43
in terms of how that
00:07:49.46\00:07:52.63
church and state relationship
00:07:52.67\00:07:54.64
will ultimately bring
about a forced kind of worship,
00:07:54.67\00:07:59.57
which of course is
going against everything
00:07:59.61\00:08:02.04
regarding freedom of conscience
and religious liberty.
00:08:02.08\00:08:05.58
I believe completely
in what the prophetic
00:08:05.61\00:08:08.68
understanding of Daniel
and Revelation portrays.
00:08:08.72\00:08:12.19
I believe, explicitly,
00:08:12.22\00:08:14.79
in what that beautiful book
00:08:14.82\00:08:16.62
The Great
Controversy by Ellen G. White
00:08:16.66\00:08:19.16
indicates will happen.
00:08:19.19\00:08:20.66
Sunday laws and persecution
00:08:20.70\00:08:23.00
and forced worship
in a certain direction
00:08:23.03\00:08:26.40
will absolutely be in reality.
00:08:26.43\00:08:30.44
Right now, we do not see that
00:08:30.47\00:08:32.97
in public display in
terms of particular legislation,
00:08:33.01\00:08:37.71
but it certainly is
somewhere in the movement.
00:08:37.75\00:08:43.59
The last events are
going to be very rapid.
00:08:43.62\00:08:47.16
So I don't understand
anyone who says, well, you know,
00:08:47.19\00:08:51.19
why you say this or that.
00:08:51.23\00:08:53.63
We don't see it explicitly,
00:08:53.66\00:08:56.56
but we know it's coming
00:08:56.60\00:08:58.27
and we need to prepare
through a study of God's Word.
00:08:58.30\00:09:01.30
Now, anybody that's listening,
00:09:01.34\00:09:02.67
has heard any
number of public officials
00:09:02.70\00:09:04.14
in the last few
months say openly,
00:09:04.17\00:09:05.64
they don't
believe in the separation
00:09:05.67\00:09:07.01
of church and state,
00:09:07.04\00:09:08.38
which has been a great
protective element for the US.
00:09:08.41\00:09:11.01
And a blessing.
00:09:11.05\00:09:12.78
Anyone that's reading a
little more widely knows
00:09:12.81\00:09:14.75
that some of these
same religious groups
00:09:14.78\00:09:16.99
that are whispering
into the air of power,
00:09:17.02\00:09:19.82
or also whispering in countries
in Africa in particular,
00:09:19.85\00:09:23.29
and when they leave
the government leaders
00:09:23.32\00:09:26.26
they're excited that
it was their influence
00:09:26.29\00:09:27.96
that led them to pass laws,
00:09:28.00\00:09:29.36
giving the death
penalty say for gay behavior,
00:09:29.40\00:09:31.33
which no
Christian could condemn.
00:09:31.37\00:09:33.47
But it's not given
to us to execute people
00:09:33.50\00:09:35.87
for disobeying
moral laws anymore.
00:09:35.90\00:09:38.37
So we know the lay of the land
and I shared with you recently,
00:09:38.41\00:09:42.74
some of the documents
00:09:42.78\00:09:44.11
that are coming
out of Rome with us,
00:09:44.15\00:09:45.48
you know, there's
a breath of fresh air
00:09:45.51\00:09:46.85
on a certain level.
00:09:46.88\00:09:48.72
I am very excited that
Rome seems to have discovered
00:09:48.75\00:09:51.95
what the first
angel's message says that
00:09:51.99\00:09:53.79
this is the era
to call attention
00:09:53.82\00:09:56.29
to the Creator
00:09:56.32\00:09:58.13
and in a document in 2015,
00:09:58.16\00:10:02.56
no doubt, I see
the pope there says
00:10:02.60\00:10:04.57
that the whole world
needs to pay attention
00:10:04.60\00:10:07.04
to this issue of
global degradation
00:10:07.07\00:10:09.37
for our very survival.
00:10:09.40\00:10:11.37
And he says, we
need to find again,
00:10:11.41\00:10:12.91
the rhythms inscribed
in nature by the Creator,
00:10:12.94\00:10:16.28
the Seventh-day Sabbath.
00:10:16.31\00:10:17.65
He's right on the
mark, except unfortunately,
00:10:17.68\00:10:20.05
Sunday comes up.
00:10:20.08\00:10:21.48
Well, people have a
right to think differently,
00:10:21.52\00:10:24.05
but the Bible never gives
00:10:24.09\00:10:26.25
cause to think of any other day
than the seventh-day Sabbath.
00:10:26.29\00:10:28.82
Absolutely.
00:10:28.86\00:10:30.19
And it seems as
00:10:30.23\00:10:31.56
if we're
remembering the Creator,
00:10:31.59\00:10:32.93
in Genesis, which was
00:10:32.96\00:10:35.26
to all mankind then it says
00:10:35.30\00:10:36.83
that the seventh
day was hallowed,
00:10:36.87\00:10:38.30
is a memorial of creation.
00:10:38.33\00:10:40.00
So I see some signs
00:10:40.04\00:10:41.47
that this is coming
to the head globally.
00:10:41.50\00:10:44.04
Absolutely.
00:10:44.07\00:10:45.67
I travelled all over the world
00:10:45.71\00:10:47.14
and I know that there
are many things developing,
00:10:47.18\00:10:50.41
which are forcing us
to the very end of time,
00:10:50.45\00:10:53.92
and I believe it
with all my heart.
00:10:53.95\00:10:55.75
So we need to
keep our eyes open,
00:10:55.78\00:10:58.19
we need to speak where we can
00:10:58.22\00:11:00.42
to help, protect,
religious freedom,
00:11:00.46\00:11:02.82
but know that
oppression, persecution,
00:11:02.86\00:11:06.43
and Sunday laws and other laws,
00:11:06.46\00:11:09.26
which will force
individuals they are coming.
00:11:09.30\00:11:12.37
Force people to go
against their conscience,
00:11:12.40\00:11:14.74
that's why the only protection
00:11:14.77\00:11:17.14
against this is
constant vigilance
00:11:17.17\00:11:19.97
and a complete belief
in God's power to save us.
00:11:20.01\00:11:24.41
And to see God's
leading in history
00:11:24.45\00:11:26.08
but to see a counterforce
00:11:26.11\00:11:27.78
that will bring in false Sabbath
00:11:27.82\00:11:29.82
and a false religious liberty
00:11:29.85\00:11:31.95
with compulsion
rather than free will.
00:11:31.99\00:11:34.49
It's a privilege to
talk to you as always and...
00:11:34.52\00:11:36.36
Thank you.
00:11:36.39\00:11:37.73
I know our viewers
will appreciate this
00:11:37.76\00:11:39.23
and these are exciting times.
00:11:39.26\00:11:41.46
They are.
00:11:41.50\00:11:42.83
And the Sunday
law is just one of it.
00:11:42.86\00:11:44.20
But as I've told
people, one litmus test is
00:11:44.23\00:11:46.74
on religious liberty
is if there is coercion
00:11:46.77\00:11:49.74
or force involved,
that's not from God.
00:11:49.77\00:11:51.77
You're right. You're right.
00:11:51.81\00:11:53.88
As the Bible says elsewhere,
I think is it Ezekiel?
00:11:53.91\00:11:56.44
You know, millions in
the valley of decision.
00:11:56.48\00:11:58.55
This is the time we live among,
00:11:58.58\00:11:59.91
people are making up their minds
00:11:59.95\00:12:02.05
because there's
a lot riding in it.
00:12:02.08\00:12:04.02
And back to the
period of history
00:12:04.05\00:12:06.09
that I love the time
of the English Civil War
00:12:06.12\00:12:09.59
and the Puritans
actually gained political power
00:12:09.62\00:12:12.66
the wrong way.
00:12:12.69\00:12:14.03
But a large group of them
00:12:14.06\00:12:15.40
were called the
Fifth Monarchy Men,
00:12:15.43\00:12:17.23
and they were looking at
that image of Daniel too...
00:12:17.27\00:12:19.63
Well before Adventists
used to have their charts
00:12:19.67\00:12:22.44
and they believe they were
in the fifth and final kingdom,
00:12:22.47\00:12:25.61
that's feet of iron and of clay
00:12:25.64\00:12:26.98
and God's kingdom
was about to replace it.
00:12:27.01\00:12:29.64
I believe, where they
really not as they thought
00:12:29.68\00:12:32.78
they were with it.
00:12:32.81\00:12:34.15
We're in the toes.
00:12:34.18\00:12:35.52
The end of the toes.
00:12:35.55\00:12:36.89
Thank you very much.
00:12:36.92\00:12:38.25
Been a privilege to be with you.
00:12:38.29\00:12:40.16
Stay with us.
00:12:40.19\00:12:43.79
That Reformation wall in Geneva
00:12:43.83\00:12:47.20
was certainly an
inspiration to me.
00:12:47.23\00:12:48.93
And I will not
forget standing there,
00:12:48.96\00:12:51.43
staring at those
memorials of the heroes
00:12:51.47\00:12:54.74
of the Reformation,
00:12:54.77\00:12:56.10
John Calvin towering figure,
00:12:56.14\00:12:58.34
Oliver
Cromwell, one of my heroes
00:12:58.37\00:13:00.58
and, of course, Roger Williams,
00:13:00.61\00:13:02.48
the connection to
Protestantism in America.
00:13:02.51\00:13:05.91
But really, it doesn't end there
00:13:05.95\00:13:07.62
by any means.
00:13:07.65\00:13:08.98
And as Paul said,
00:13:09.02\00:13:10.35
in the New Testament,
00:13:10.39\00:13:11.72
the heroes of faith
00:13:11.75\00:13:13.09
through the ages
stand as guides for us
00:13:13.12\00:13:15.72
as we move toward the
culmination of all things
00:13:15.76\00:13:18.56
at the second
coming of Jesus Christ.
00:13:18.59\00:13:21.00
Protestantism is not
something of the past.
00:13:21.03\00:13:25.17
The faith that they held
forth is the eternal faith
00:13:25.20\00:13:28.84
and the
confidence that we can have
00:13:28.87\00:13:31.64
was what they left to us.
00:13:31.67\00:13:34.24
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:13:34.28\00:13:37.25