Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI190425B
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00:03 Welcome back to Liberty Insider.
00:05 Before the break with guest John Reeve, 00:08 we were going over 00:10 some Adventist history to explain 00:13 why religious liberty 00:15 is so important for Adventists today. 00:16 And it is. It's... 00:19 You know, it's one of the departments 00:21 within our church, 00:22 but as far as the members support 00:24 and the money and so on. 00:26 It's unchanging over the years, it's a consistent support, 00:31 and as you said very succinctly, 00:32 it's tied up to our doctrinal world view. 00:36 Yeah. 00:37 And as such, we as people need to be careful 00:40 to make sure we're not just getting religious liberty 00:44 for Sabbath keepers, 00:46 we need to make sure 00:47 that we're getting religious liberty 00:49 for all people, for all faiths. 00:50 Well, I made a comment... 00:52 I remember making a comment at some seminar groups 00:56 at the time of the last presidential election. 00:58 And as you know and many of our viewers know, 01:01 a Seventh-day Adventist was one of the contenders 01:03 for president. 01:05 And, of course, 01:06 that was exciting for many individual Adventists, 01:10 but I don't think they'd all thought through 01:12 what that meant. 01:13 And so I said to them, at one stage, 01:15 "What are you expecting from such a person?" 01:17 In this case, we knew who he was, 01:19 but whoever and any Adventist running. 01:21 I said you want them to act the same way 01:23 as president towards Adventist 01:25 that we feared that President Kennedy 01:27 would act towards Catholics? 01:29 But... 01:31 And he didn't, 01:32 Kennedy kept a good separation of church and state. 01:34 Correct. 01:35 But, you know, it's nice that he perhaps, 01:37 this doctor was, 01:39 you know, one of our company, 01:40 but if a president, you would expect him 01:43 to be engaged with several governance 01:47 and facilitating the full freedom 01:49 of religious liberty for all people, 01:51 he can't afford to be playing favorites. 01:53 And I said... 01:55 And I also said in that context, 01:56 it's worth thinking about, 01:58 "If we had a president or a government 02:00 or whatever entity in the government 02:01 that passed an edict saying, 02:03 "Now that the Seventh-day Sabbath, 02:05 by-law has to be the day everyone keeps." 02:09 That would be as wrong as what we feared 02:11 that Sunday one day will be designated 02:15 under panel of law as the day. 02:16 We don't believe in religious legislation 02:20 for the state to tell people how to practice their faith. 02:23 Even if what they were querying is good. 02:26 It's... 02:27 In fact, it's the litmus test of religious liberty. 02:30 If there's cohesion involved, it's not religious liberty. 02:33 "Cohesion." 02:34 That's an interesting concept. Yeah. 02:36 What kind of cohesion equal cohesion. 02:39 I mean, you've got obvious laws 02:41 with consequences as cohesion... 02:43 Well, fines and penalties like that, 02:45 imprisonment. 02:46 Ellen White once goes through it. 02:47 She says, "It's mockery, then harassment, 02:53 and then fines, imprisonment, and death." 02:55 Yeah. 02:56 Doesn't start off with the endpoint, 02:58 but they're all wrong. 02:59 Right. 03:00 And they're all trying to take away 03:02 the right of the individual to make the choice. 03:03 So what's the difference between 03:06 a mob rule view of religious liberty 03:11 and a democratic view of religious liberty? 03:16 Very perceptive question. 03:19 Well... 03:20 And I'm sure you'll ask it because the intimation is given 03:24 to Seventh-day Adventist that at the end of time, 03:29 a National Sunday Law 03:30 which takes its cue from Revelation 03:34 where it says, you know, the mark of the beast, 03:36 they're all required to obey the certain dictate. 03:40 And we believe, 03:44 and we told that it will be people clamoring 03:47 to the legislators for such law. 03:50 Yeah. 03:51 And that troubled me since the 2000 election. 03:56 In the main, the population seemed to believe 03:59 that if the majority wants something, 04:01 they should get it. 04:02 Yeah. 04:03 And even in the Supreme Court the question is often, 04:08 "Is the population ready for such and such a law?" 04:11 Right. 04:12 As supposed to, "Is such and such a law just, 04:16 does it fit into the society?" 04:18 And anybody that does a bit of study 04:20 on American history knows that the... 04:24 Sometimes wise men that put things together 04:26 had a great fear of the mob rule 04:29 of people rising up as a body and demanding something. 04:33 And a lot of the mechanisms of law 04:36 and certainly the Bill of Rights 04:37 fits in with this, 04:39 is designed to protect the minority from the majority. 04:43 Correct. 04:44 And in its heart 04:46 religious liberty must fall into that category. 04:50 Absolutely. 04:51 But it's reminding me of an incident 04:54 that I listened to on BBC a few years ago. 04:58 There was an interview 04:59 with the foreign minister of the Maldives. 05:03 And he was representing his country very well 05:05 in the interview, 05:07 portraying it as an island paradise. 05:08 And it's in the tropical area, a nice country. 05:11 Very low lying. 05:12 It's at risk of global sea level rising 05:15 of disappearing totally. 05:16 But anyhow, he portrayed it very nicely, an idyllic place, 05:20 wonderful society, free, and all the rest. 05:23 And the interviewer said, 05:24 "But now what about religious freedom?" 05:27 That's right, he says, "What about religious freedom?" 05:29 "Oh, yes, we have religious freedom. 05:31 Absolutely." 05:32 He says, "Although the population 05:34 is pretty much a 100% Muslim, so it's not an issue." 05:38 And the interviewer says, 05:40 "Well, you know, I'm a Christian," 05:41 he says, "Would I be allowed 05:43 to go to your country and practice my faith?" 05:46 And I can't believe... 05:48 I'll never forget the response of the guy. 05:51 Suddenly reacted at horror, he says, "Certainly not!" 05:55 He says, "We might as well invite Al-Qaeda 05:57 into our country." 05:59 So, you know, the things were peaceful there 06:02 according to him because they're all the same. 06:05 Whether or not anyone 06:06 who tried to change their religion, probably not, 06:09 probably know that it wouldn't be allowed. 06:10 But at least you hadn't been tested 06:12 but when it's tested, 06:13 they're not going to allow this. 06:15 And we need to keep that in mind 06:17 that the majority are often very comfortable, 06:20 but if you test the principle 06:23 by the minority in this case and... 06:29 I do think we're heading towards this idea 06:31 that the majority, if they want it, they get it. 06:34 And there's a strong move in the US 06:36 that I think it's very problematic, 06:37 not just from a religious liberty point of view, 06:40 from several governance. 06:41 There is a strong move to do away 06:43 with the Electoral College and the senate, 06:47 you know, why should some states 06:49 have more power than the sizable warranty 06:52 to set it up, 06:53 so the majority of the population 06:55 will get what they want." 06:57 And, of course, 06:58 part of this is that the president will be elected 06:59 by pure majoritarian vote. 07:02 But they don't understand why it was set up, 07:04 it was preciously to spread the influence first, 07:08 and maybe even first preciously 07:10 to protect the minority from the majority. 07:14 You know, on those original colonies 07:16 you have... 07:17 We talked at the very beginning here 07:19 about the fact that the many of the church of England people 07:25 that came over represented different subsets 07:27 of the Church of England in different colonies 07:30 like Virginia was one 07:32 and then Massachusetts is another, 07:34 and then, of course, you have the Catholics 07:36 in Maryland, etcetera, etcetera... 07:38 Well, that's my view on why things worked 07:40 so well here because it had balkanized 07:42 the situation so much that no one party 07:45 had any chance of a majority, 07:47 say they were all rather agreeable 07:49 with each other on the national level, 07:51 not on the state level. 07:53 The national level, it made perfect sense 07:55 to have a freedom for all 07:57 and no favoritism from the federal government. 08:00 Yeah. 08:01 Which allowed because of the fact 08:03 that there was no single majority 08:05 but a whole bunch of minorities religiously speaking. 08:09 It allowed the environment of, 08:13 we have to be allowing for the minority rights 08:16 because everybody was a minority. 08:18 Yeah. 08:19 So in a situation where you end up 08:21 with a majority taking over, 08:24 can that majority 08:26 actually look out for the rights of the minority. 08:30 In a world, where we are more and more getting polarized, 08:35 can the polarization look out for minority rights? 08:39 Religious liberty at its heart is must be for all, 08:44 let's not forget. 08:48 Sometimes with all the emphasis on the health message 08:51 and doing good things in the community, 08:53 even Seventh-day Adventists 08:55 can become a little forgetful of the prophetic 08:59 and the end time thinking 09:01 that gave rise to this church organization. 09:05 In the mid 1800s, 09:07 people in America was stood by social change 09:10 and many Bible believing Christians 09:12 were convinced the end of the world 09:14 was upon them. 09:15 It seems sort of quaint 09:16 if you look back on it that way. 09:18 But today, look at science fiction, 09:20 almost every science fiction show 09:22 and many television programs 09:24 expositing the end of the world in an apocalyptic sense. 09:29 But for Adventists today, 09:31 the prophecies that inform Millerites 09:33 and Adventists back then should be present today 09:37 and the dynamic that guides us 09:39 because the headlines scream at us, 09:42 "That this and these are the end times." 09:46 And what's to come? 09:48 First, a great proclamation of liberty 09:51 throughout the land, 09:52 and then the call should go out that the Liberator, 09:55 the Creator is coming in the clouds of glory. 09:59 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2019-03-28