Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider,
00:00:04.90\00:00:07.17
and before the break
with guest John Ashmeade,
00:00:07.20\00:00:10.57
we were having a final time
00:00:10.61\00:00:12.14
talking about
conspiracy theories
00:00:12.17\00:00:14.04
and debunking them
at least in theory.
00:00:14.08\00:00:17.31
But they're not
going to go away that easy
00:00:17.35\00:00:19.11
either on the internet
00:00:19.15\00:00:20.48
or even within our
church structure in particular,
00:00:20.52\00:00:25.75
we're both
Seventh-day Adventists.
00:00:25.79\00:00:28.26
You know, that's
worth remembering
00:00:28.29\00:00:29.62
Jesus said that there'll be
a false Christ, and people say,
00:00:29.66\00:00:32.49
"Go out into the
desert, and he is not there."
00:00:32.53\00:00:34.00
He was talking
about conspiracy theories,
00:00:34.03\00:00:35.83
and delusions,
and false information.
00:00:35.86\00:00:40.50
And this is
closely tied up I believe
00:00:40.54\00:00:42.70
with what the
president has spoken
00:00:42.74\00:00:45.84
with his own agenda on it,
00:00:45.87\00:00:47.21
you know, fake news.
00:00:47.24\00:00:49.31
Not everything that passes
for information is really true,
00:00:49.34\00:00:52.21
is it?
00:00:52.25\00:00:53.58
So, you know, I
think as Adventist
00:00:53.62\00:00:56.65
because these are the people
I'm primarily concerned with.
00:00:56.69\00:00:59.95
You know, we can
outline a framework
00:00:59.99\00:01:02.89
from which to
assess these issues.
00:01:02.92\00:01:06.23
You know, we
have an understanding
00:01:06.26\00:01:08.60
of the Book of Daniel.
00:01:08.63\00:01:09.96
Daniel Chapter 2,
00:01:10.00\00:01:11.77
Daniel Chapter 2 talks
about four great world empires.
00:01:11.80\00:01:15.54
And the next empire
that follows is what?
00:01:15.57\00:01:18.97
Is the kingdom of God, right?
00:01:19.01\00:01:21.21
No.
00:01:21.24\00:01:22.91
You have the four world empires,
00:01:22.94\00:01:24.58
then you have the
fourth breaking down into 10...
00:01:24.61\00:01:27.55
Which is in perfect
union of the empire.
00:01:27.58\00:01:30.19
Which is conflict.
00:01:30.22\00:01:31.55
That's where we are.
00:01:31.59\00:01:32.92
Right, so it goes
from the four world empires
00:01:32.95\00:01:34.86
to the breaking down into 10,
00:01:34.89\00:01:36.32
and the
representing clay and iron,
00:01:36.36\00:01:39.23
and then
following that we don't see.
00:01:39.26\00:01:42.10
We see God's kingdom coming in,
00:01:42.13\00:01:43.90
and that's the basic framework
that we examine these issues.
00:01:43.93\00:01:47.17
So there are four world great...
00:01:47.20\00:01:48.97
Four world empires, and
then the kingdom of God.
00:01:49.00\00:01:52.37
We don't have a fifth
world empire that's mentioned.
00:01:52.41\00:01:56.31
And we see the pattern
followed in Daniel Chapter 7.
00:01:56.34\00:02:00.32
And even when we go
00:02:00.35\00:02:02.42
to Revelation Chapter 12 and 13,
00:02:02.45\00:02:05.65
we see the similar pattern.
00:02:05.69\00:02:07.56
And so if we examine the
issues from that framework,
00:02:07.59\00:02:11.13
we know, automatically,
00:02:11.16\00:02:12.76
there isn't a
coming world empire.
00:02:12.79\00:02:15.26
That's the foundation.
00:02:15.30\00:02:17.53
And so I think
if as an Adventist,
00:02:17.57\00:02:21.87
we follow that we,
00:02:21.90\00:02:23.24
that we can steer
clear of all the crazy ideas
00:02:23.27\00:02:26.27
floating out there about,
00:02:26.31\00:02:28.68
you know, a global government
00:02:28.71\00:02:30.21
that is either going to
be run by the communists
00:02:30.25\00:02:32.91
or either run by the Muslim.
00:02:32.95\00:02:34.28
I don't know it changes
00:02:34.32\00:02:36.52
or the, you
know, or the atheists,
00:02:36.55\00:02:38.99
they're coming up
with their own system.
00:02:39.02\00:02:41.56
You know, we know
that at the end of time
00:02:41.59\00:02:44.19
there will be an
uptick in religious fervor,
00:02:44.23\00:02:47.30
and, you know, the
challenges that we face
00:02:47.33\00:02:50.20
will be largely driven
by Christians who will...
00:02:50.23\00:02:54.10
At least in the Christian world.
00:02:54.14\00:02:55.57
In the Christian
world who will begin,
00:02:55.60\00:02:57.31
you know,
reinterpreting our constitution,
00:02:57.34\00:02:59.87
and, you know, you know,
trying to break down that wall
00:02:59.91\00:03:03.75
between the
separation of church and state.
00:03:03.78\00:03:06.31
So in other words,
the present writ large
00:03:06.35\00:03:08.08
because we're already
there, that there are...
00:03:08.12\00:03:11.55
We've had public
officials even saying lately
00:03:11.59\00:03:13.62
they don't
believe in the separation
00:03:13.66\00:03:14.99
of church and state.
00:03:15.02\00:03:16.36
Many religious
leaders say the same thing.
00:03:16.39\00:03:18.36
They want special treatment
for their version of religion.
00:03:18.39\00:03:21.46
But we're only at the
beginning stages of that,
00:03:21.50\00:03:23.87
but the Bible predicts
basically religious compulsion
00:03:23.90\00:03:27.14
writ large throughout, what?
00:03:27.17\00:03:29.34
A master Christendom. Right.
00:03:29.37\00:03:31.07
And, you know,
00:03:31.11\00:03:32.44
we can't ignore this
phenomenon of fake news
00:03:32.47\00:03:36.88
that has really come out,
00:03:36.91\00:03:39.31
you know, we no longer
have a sense of what's true
00:03:39.35\00:03:42.18
and what isn't.
00:03:42.22\00:03:43.55
As long as it sort of
00:03:43.59\00:03:44.92
fits within the
framework of our thinking,
00:03:44.95\00:03:46.49
we run with a
story without vetting it.
00:03:46.52\00:03:48.86
If there, if a
negative story comes out
00:03:48.89\00:03:51.49
about the party
that we don't agree with,
00:03:51.53\00:03:53.93
we just accept it, post
it, and our friends like it,
00:03:53.96\00:03:57.63
and they believe it.
00:03:57.67\00:03:59.00
And we don't think...
00:03:59.03\00:04:00.37
Is this really the case?
00:04:00.40\00:04:02.17
We don't go back, you know,
00:04:02.20\00:04:03.64
and check online to
see if this is true.
00:04:03.67\00:04:07.64
You know, I
liken it to the fact,
00:04:07.68\00:04:09.41
you know, these
fake celebrity obituaries
00:04:09.44\00:04:12.75
come out from time to time.
00:04:12.78\00:04:14.22
And before you know
it someone's posted that
00:04:14.25\00:04:16.15
this person is dead,
and then you go online,
00:04:16.18\00:04:18.69
you don't see anything
about it 24 hours a lapse,
00:04:18.72\00:04:21.56
and you realize
that this is fake.
00:04:21.59\00:04:23.76
We need to do a
better job at vetting.
00:04:23.79\00:04:25.93
You immediately reminded me
of Mark Twain, Samuel Clemens,
00:04:25.96\00:04:30.93
he says, "Reports of my death
have been greatly exaggerated."
00:04:30.97\00:04:34.37
This is, I
remember, it was reported
00:04:34.40\00:04:36.27
once or twice he did that.
00:04:36.30\00:04:38.91
And we're caught in a
bind in the modern world.
00:04:38.94\00:04:42.44
In self congratulatory mode,
00:04:42.48\00:04:45.08
much is often made
of lot of information,
00:04:45.11\00:04:47.12
and young people
know more than before.
00:04:47.15\00:04:49.38
There might be
information floating around,
00:04:49.42\00:04:51.02
the certitudes of
the past are gone,
00:04:51.05\00:04:52.89
and it's hard to prove
that what you know is true,
00:04:52.92\00:04:56.59
plus, I think the digital age
00:04:56.62\00:04:59.23
has brought in
intellectual laziness,
00:04:59.26\00:05:00.83
I don't believe
that people really know
00:05:00.86\00:05:04.17
as much in their own
head as they did before.
00:05:04.20\00:05:06.84
They have access to it,
00:05:06.87\00:05:08.20
but then when
you go floating out
00:05:08.24\00:05:09.80
especially on the internet,
00:05:09.84\00:05:11.17
it's not playing unless
you do a little investigation,
00:05:11.21\00:05:13.74
you know, one thing
displays as good as another.
00:05:13.78\00:05:16.64
In fact, sometimes
the most untrue things
00:05:16.68\00:05:19.51
display better.
00:05:19.55\00:05:20.88
They appear more
spectacularly real
00:05:20.92\00:05:23.18
than just boring
hard information.
00:05:23.22\00:05:26.49
And the Bible says, doesn't it,
00:05:26.52\00:05:28.16
"Even the very elect
will be deceived at this age."
00:05:28.19\00:05:30.03
Right. Exactly,
that's the problem.
00:05:30.06\00:05:31.89
And when you look at
00:05:31.93\00:05:33.86
what's taking
place in our country,
00:05:33.90\00:05:36.06
you know, real
information can come out,
00:05:36.10\00:05:39.07
but because it is
unflattering of a party
00:05:39.10\00:05:43.47
that we don't agree with,
we reject it out of hand as,
00:05:43.51\00:05:47.04
you know, a political
attack of the other side.
00:05:47.08\00:05:49.71
And, you know,
there is, you know,
00:05:49.74\00:05:52.48
we don't have a new
source that we find reliable
00:05:52.51\00:05:55.98
and that's a real problem.
00:05:56.02\00:05:57.49
And so we don't know,
00:05:57.52\00:05:58.85
we really don't
know what's going on,
00:05:58.89\00:06:00.22
we can't tell truth from error.
00:06:00.26\00:06:01.82
Let me run two things for you
00:06:01.86\00:06:03.19
before we run out
of time eventually.
00:06:03.22\00:06:05.46
In this context
of this discussion
00:06:05.49\00:06:08.10
on conspiracy theories,
00:06:08.13\00:06:09.46
where does the
Russian manipulation
00:06:09.50\00:06:11.73
or election come in?
00:06:11.77\00:06:13.23
Right, wow, you know,
00:06:13.27\00:06:14.90
I think I want to wait
until I see Mueller's report...
00:06:14.94\00:06:17.71
Very good answer,
00:06:17.74\00:06:19.07
you need to run
for public office.
00:06:19.11\00:06:20.98
To offer any firm conclusions.
00:06:21.01\00:06:22.94
Obviously, you know,
00:06:22.98\00:06:25.05
as someone
living in this country,
00:06:25.08\00:06:26.85
I've been on the internet,
and I've been on Facebook,
00:06:26.88\00:06:29.48
and social media, and
I've seen things there
00:06:29.52\00:06:32.25
that I just find incredible,
00:06:32.29\00:06:35.29
things published
about our current president,
00:06:35.32\00:06:37.59
things published
about Hillary Clinton
00:06:37.63\00:06:39.63
that I know to be not true.
00:06:39.66\00:06:41.93
But I see so many people
around me, embracing them,
00:06:41.96\00:06:45.17
and accepting them,
and running with them.
00:06:45.20\00:06:47.34
And, you know,
I'm sort of a gadfly.
00:06:47.37\00:06:49.30
Whenever I see it,
00:06:49.34\00:06:50.67
I like to
challenge and poke and say,
00:06:50.71\00:06:52.17
"Where did you get this?
00:06:52.21\00:06:53.54
How did you come
to this conclusion?"
00:06:53.58\00:06:54.91
And, you know,
00:06:54.94\00:06:56.28
because I think
that's what we need to do.
00:06:56.31\00:06:59.21
You know, but I have
real questions about,
00:06:59.25\00:07:03.02
you know, how people
came to their decisions
00:07:03.05\00:07:05.99
in terms of who to vote for
00:07:06.02\00:07:08.72
based on the information
they got from the internet,
00:07:08.76\00:07:10.76
that's a real problem.
00:07:10.79\00:07:12.13
But I just don't know
00:07:12.16\00:07:13.70
what the
Russians were able to do
00:07:13.73\00:07:15.06
until I see some
sort of official report.
00:07:15.10\00:07:17.13
Yeah.
00:07:17.17\00:07:18.50
And it has never a lot directly
to do with religious liberty,
00:07:18.53\00:07:20.77
but it has a lot
to do with discerning
00:07:20.80\00:07:23.81
between truth and error.
00:07:23.84\00:07:25.84
And when your religious faith
00:07:25.87\00:07:31.08
is compromised,
00:07:31.11\00:07:32.45
you need to
know the basis for it
00:07:32.48\00:07:33.82
or else you won't
know the compromise.
00:07:33.85\00:07:35.18
Here's how this really presents
a threat to religious freedom
00:07:35.22\00:07:38.42
and to liberty in general.
00:07:38.45\00:07:40.86
If we're able to
slander a group or a person
00:07:40.89\00:07:45.13
by just posting
fake news about them,
00:07:45.16\00:07:47.16
it makes it so much
easier to persecute them.
00:07:47.20\00:07:49.63
And that's a real problem.
00:07:49.66\00:07:51.00
You know, if
something, you know,
00:07:51.03\00:07:54.37
bad happens with
the Adventist Church,
00:07:54.40\00:07:56.10
and then someone
takes that story,
00:07:56.14\00:07:57.77
and they're able to
manipulate it in a way
00:07:57.81\00:08:00.04
to make the
church look even worse,
00:08:00.08\00:08:01.68
then we look,
00:08:01.71\00:08:03.24
then we become a
pariah to society.
00:08:03.28\00:08:05.18
Well, you're
getting to the second point
00:08:05.21\00:08:06.55
I was going to make.
00:08:06.58\00:08:07.92
Okay, we're
thinking alike, that's good.
00:08:07.95\00:08:09.38
And I was listening
00:08:09.42\00:08:10.75
to a radio
program the other day,
00:08:10.79\00:08:12.45
I listened to many religious,
different religious groups,
00:08:12.49\00:08:14.86
this particular
one related to...
00:08:14.89\00:08:18.33
It was from a Roman
Catholic point of view.
00:08:18.36\00:08:20.40
And they've been giving
good Bible answers to things.
00:08:20.43\00:08:22.96
And one of their callers
00:08:23.00\00:08:24.33
said that the
Seventh-day Adventist,
00:08:24.37\00:08:26.80
that they were familiar with,
00:08:26.84\00:08:28.17
had made a claim that
they were only so many souls
00:08:28.20\00:08:31.24
made originally by God.
00:08:31.27\00:08:33.48
And he was just
providing buddies for them,
00:08:33.51\00:08:35.41
that God had limited Himself.
00:08:35.44\00:08:37.51
And, of course,
00:08:37.55\00:08:38.88
they dismissed
that and prohibited.
00:08:38.91\00:08:40.25
To me, that was fake news.
00:08:40.28\00:08:41.62
Adventists don't
believe such a thing.
00:08:41.65\00:08:43.72
I don't know who made it up.
00:08:43.75\00:08:45.15
I don't think the program did.
00:08:45.19\00:08:47.59
It's possible the
person that called in
00:08:47.62\00:08:49.56
had an agenda or
was misrepresenting.
00:08:49.59\00:08:52.56
It's possible,
00:08:52.59\00:08:53.93
it's just a
plain misunderstanding,
00:08:53.96\00:08:55.30
but the net effect
was clearly both fake news
00:08:55.33\00:08:59.33
and leading to conspiracy.
00:08:59.37\00:09:01.00
Conspiracist view of our church.
00:09:01.04\00:09:02.70
Right.
00:09:02.74\00:09:04.07
And, you know, the
fact of the matter is,
00:09:04.11\00:09:05.77
you know, if we go
back to an early discussion
00:09:05.81\00:09:09.21
we had about the Muslim ban,
00:09:09.24\00:09:11.21
you know, the big fear
that many Christians have
00:09:11.25\00:09:14.12
in this country is that
00:09:14.15\00:09:15.48
Sharia law is
about to be imposed,
00:09:15.52\00:09:18.19
and that's
driving a lot of the fear
00:09:18.22\00:09:20.76
that we have with Muslim.
00:09:20.79\00:09:22.12
It's fake news,
00:09:22.16\00:09:23.49
we're nowhere near
that, it's not happening,
00:09:23.53\00:09:25.63
but it's a conspiracy
theory that's out there.
00:09:25.66\00:09:28.20
And, you know,
it's really problematic.
00:09:28.23\00:09:30.77
And the root cause of
that conspiracy theory
00:09:30.80\00:09:34.30
apart from free-floating fear,
00:09:34.34\00:09:36.54
many close-knit
Muslim immigrant communities
00:09:36.57\00:09:40.48
would like such a thing.
00:09:40.51\00:09:41.84
Right. That's to be expected.
00:09:41.88\00:09:44.38
But as long as
our system holds true,
00:09:44.41\00:09:46.41
it's not going to do that.
00:09:46.45\00:09:48.28
And as you know, what
muddies are little too
00:09:48.32\00:09:51.12
in certain closed
Jewish communities,
00:09:51.15\00:09:53.39
they allow them to
have Jewish church law,
00:09:53.42\00:09:56.99
but it doesn't
supersede civil law.
00:09:57.03\00:09:59.36
It just, it's sort of
a localized application
00:09:59.39\00:10:04.27
that they let that
community apply that.
00:10:04.30\00:10:06.57
So...
00:10:06.60\00:10:07.94
And that's consistent
with religious freedom.
00:10:07.97\00:10:09.30
Yeah.
00:10:09.34\00:10:10.67
So, you know, from your views,
00:10:10.71\00:10:12.24
you were happy to talk about
conspiracies, where's it going?
00:10:12.27\00:10:16.11
What's the conspiracy thought?
00:10:16.14\00:10:18.15
I don't know where it's going,
00:10:18.18\00:10:19.71
but I think it's going to create
00:10:19.75\00:10:21.08
a whole host of
problems for us going forward.
00:10:21.12\00:10:24.75
If we don't have,
you know, a new source
00:10:24.79\00:10:29.26
that we find
reliable, we are in trouble.
00:10:29.29\00:10:31.83
It's recorded
00:10:35.46\00:10:36.80
that Jesus'
disciples came to Him,
00:10:36.83\00:10:39.23
I'm sure on more
than one occasion,
00:10:39.27\00:10:41.27
and they said, "Tell us,
when will these things be?"
00:10:41.30\00:10:44.07
It's a natural question.
00:10:44.11\00:10:45.61
And Jesus gave
quite a long answer,
00:10:45.64\00:10:48.14
a litany of last day events
00:10:48.18\00:10:50.45
might as well be
the headlines for today.
00:10:50.48\00:10:52.45
But He says,
"The end is not yet."
00:10:52.48\00:10:54.58
Because before the end comes,
00:10:54.62\00:10:56.69
there needs to be
a great persecution,
00:10:56.72\00:10:58.42
there needs to be
a great falling away,
00:10:58.45\00:11:00.39
there needs to be every
man against his brother,
00:11:00.42\00:11:04.53
a total meltdown,
00:11:04.56\00:11:06.59
and a total
revelation of God's character.
00:11:06.63\00:11:09.56
It's worth keeping that in mind
00:11:09.60\00:11:11.13
as we live through these
00:11:11.17\00:11:12.63
cataclysmic 21st century events.
00:11:12.67\00:11:15.60
I think it's arguably
one minute to midnight.
00:11:15.64\00:11:19.54
But time is with the Lord,
00:11:19.57\00:11:20.98
and how long that minute
truly last, we will yet see.
00:11:21.01\00:11:24.25
But let's make it
our business to make sure
00:11:24.28\00:11:27.18
that God is truly with us,
00:11:27.22\00:11:28.65
and that we're
inspired by His Spirit,
00:11:28.68\00:11:30.59
and strengthened
to endure those days,
00:11:30.62\00:11:33.09
otherwise through
which no flesh will survive.
00:11:33.12\00:11:38.16
This is Lincoln
Steed for Liberty Insider.
00:11:38.19\00:11:41.26