Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI180417A
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00:27 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:30 This is a program designed to bring you 00:32 up-to-date news, information, analysis, and insights 00:36 on religious liberty developments 00:38 in the US and around the world. 00:40 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:44 A magazine of over 100 years focus on religious freedom 00:48 with an emphasis on separation of church and state. 00:51 My guest on the program is John Ashmeade, 00:55 Attorney John Ashmeade, and your position is... 00:59 Apart from a lawyer and in private employment, 01:02 you work with the Seventh-day Adventist Church 01:04 as Associate Director of Public Affairs 01:07 and Religious Liberty for the Eastern Seaboard, 01:09 basically of the United States, 01:11 the Atlantic Union, we call it within our system. 01:14 That's correct. 01:17 The world that we live in is increasingly complicated, 01:20 and nobody has all the answers on any topic. 01:23 But we all want to know, 01:25 as human beings, we're inquiring. 01:28 And I think it's worth you 01:29 and I discussing 01:31 what is commonly known as conspiracy theories. 01:34 But basically these are folk explanations 01:38 to complicated issues. 01:39 That's... 01:41 I've never heard that description, 01:42 but that's how I would describe it. 01:45 But thinking on the Christian model, 01:47 which, of course, 01:48 religious liberty, as Christians, 01:50 we hack back to Christ, 01:53 and then the creation of man as a free will agent, 01:56 right to choose right or wrong. 01:58 But in the Christian context, 02:00 it seems to me one of the first conspiracies 02:03 was a story told when Jesus was raised from the dead, 02:05 you remember? 02:06 Right, right. 02:08 The authorities spread a tale that 02:09 He had been stolen by His disciples, and so on, 02:13 and so the stories were bouncing around. 02:15 What had happened to Him? How had He risen? 02:19 And to this day, 02:20 a lot of the critics of Christianity 02:25 sort of go back to that basic conspiracy. 02:28 So, you know, what's your take on the things 02:30 that are free floating around us today, 02:32 conspiracies in the political world, 02:35 in the scientific world. 02:36 I've joked with you privately about the Flat Earth Theory. 02:39 There were a lot of proponents in that those days. 02:43 There are conspiracy theories that involve space aliens, 02:46 and certain newspapers on the stands 02:50 often had pictures of space aliens 02:52 with the current president, not our current, 02:53 but I mean every president that was current. 02:58 Do we just dismiss these as the ravings of ill informed, 03:03 slightly deranged people, you know, what's going on? 03:05 Sure, you know, my very first encounter 03:08 with conspiracy theories took place a few years ago. 03:11 I was actually at church 03:13 and there was an announcement that, 03:15 you know, the young people in our church 03:17 would be putting on a program on prophecy. 03:20 And, you know, I said to myself, 03:22 "Well, I can't miss this." 03:24 And, you know, when I, 03:27 you know, I went to the AY program, 03:30 and the title of the presentation was 03:32 Obama and the New World Order. 03:36 And, you know, that was shocking to me. 03:39 You know, like many African-Americans, 03:41 I was overjoyed 03:44 at the election of the first African-American president. 03:47 And so to see him depicted in such negative terms 03:51 so early in office was really troubling to me. 03:55 But basically what was done was they'd cobbled together 03:59 a number of videos from YouTube 04:02 and different places on the internet, 04:04 and painted a picture of the president 04:08 as part of a secret organization 04:10 that was seeking to create a one world government. 04:13 And so we were on the verge of a one world government 04:16 with our newly elected African-American president. 04:19 And that was deeply disturbing to me. 04:21 And as I, you know, looked at that program, 04:24 I decided to investigate the issue further. 04:27 And, you know, 04:28 found an overwhelming number of videos 04:31 on YouTube online 04:34 on conspiracies not only involving Obama, 04:36 but almost every president. 04:37 Yeah. 04:39 And, you know, and no real, 04:42 you know, we have no real ability to assess 04:45 what's true and what's not true, 04:47 what's not true because it's just online. 04:49 And this is what bothers me about conspiracies. 04:51 You know the greatest conspiracies are linked, 04:55 that is slightly linked to reality 04:57 are the ongoing discussions about 04:58 how, and who, and why, 05:00 and, in all the details about Kennedy's assassination. 05:04 And the irony is that I've thought many times, 05:07 "It's not impossible that one of these sites 05:09 or one of the investigators stumbled on the truth. 05:12 But by the nature of conspiracy theories, 05:13 you can't prove the stuff, 05:15 it's free floating information, 05:16 you wouldn't even know if you stumbled on the truth. 05:19 So it's a little pointless. 05:21 Yeah, the problem that I see is just the sources, 05:25 you know, where, 05:26 you know, where you're getting the information, 05:28 how reliable is the person 05:30 who's reporting the information? 05:31 A lot of times they cite to books, 05:34 but then who was the author of this book? 05:36 Does the author have any expertise? 05:39 You know, they cover a broad range of issues 05:41 from history to science, 05:43 the philosophy to political science, 05:45 and, you know, far off more, 05:46 you know, more often than not, these people just have, 05:49 don't have the educational credentials 05:51 to make the arguments that they're making. 05:54 But, you know, some conspiracy theories 05:55 in fact, a lot of them 05:57 are somewhat based in fact, 05:59 but then people launch out into the unknown. 06:01 And on this New World Order certain facts, 06:07 I'm sure you remember George Bush Senior 06:10 actually saying publicly 06:13 that we were heading into a new world order. 06:17 And most recently 06:20 Pope Benedict, not Pope Benedict, 06:22 Pope Francis quoted in newspapers in Europe, 06:27 didn't seem to come the side of the channel. 06:31 He was frustrated with 06:32 what the US was up to at the time, 06:34 and he said, "The sooner the US comes under global governance, 06:36 the better." 06:38 So global governance must be an idea 06:41 that's floating around with certain of these planners. 06:44 But that's not necessarily 06:45 the same as the New World Order, 06:47 which is a shadowy movement of people you don't know about, 06:51 but seem to be able to pull all the strings in history, 06:54 and, yes, you and I 06:56 being somewhat familiar with history, 06:58 you know, that even Napoleon 06:59 can't pull all the strings to their satisfaction, 07:02 much less this massive conspiracy. 07:05 And it's sort of... 07:06 It's almost a superstition often to ascribe 07:10 great power and influence to these invisible forces. 07:12 Right. 07:14 You know, there's always a secret cabal, 07:16 the secret group that's wielding 07:18 all the power behind the scenes 07:20 and making all the decisions, 07:22 determining who becomes president, 07:24 you know, all of those kinds of things. 07:27 And, you know, it seems almost incredible. 07:31 It really raises the question of, 07:33 "Well, why do we even vote in our elections? 07:36 Is this really a mirage? 07:38 And that's the real danger of these conspiracy theories 07:43 is that it can create a scenario 07:45 where people are no longer engaged in the process 07:49 because they believe it's fixed. 07:52 And, you know, so that's the real danger, 07:54 and we're seeing more of these theories proliferate around us, 07:58 and we need to begin to make some comments about them, 08:02 you know, even within the Adventist church. 08:05 You know, we have... Right. 08:07 We have our own unique perspective 08:10 on how things will unfold at the end of time. 08:13 Well, too that I think 08:14 you and I spoke about that privately. 08:17 There's an individual within our church 08:20 who spreads very good information 08:23 on many, many topics, 08:24 and two of them just offend me greatly. 08:27 The Islam supposedly, according to this man, 08:32 a purposely made organization 08:37 by the Roman Catholic Church 08:40 to sort of a stalking horse for their own interest. 08:43 That's, I mean, 08:45 the known facts of history go against such a thing. 08:48 And then another one 08:49 is that the Mason, 08:53 the whole Masonic order 08:55 again was cooked up out of nowhere 08:57 to suit Roman Catholic interest, 08:59 flies against the most simple acts of history there, 09:03 persecution of the Masonic orders, 09:06 complicated, of course, 09:07 by the fact that there have been masons 09:10 within the Roman structure, but... 09:12 Or even the masons in the early Adventism. 09:14 And our co-founder Ellen White had to deal very directly 09:19 with that sight of the pastors, 09:20 a Christian pastor shouldn't be a member of the secret society. 09:25 We know secret societies exist, 09:27 but, you know, by and large, 09:29 the guys that ride 09:30 little motorized scooters in public parades 09:33 and have nice drinking weekends. 09:35 Right, but, you know, I think you make a very good point. 09:39 The fact that you could say the Roman Catholic Church 09:42 is align with the Illuminati or Freemasons, 09:45 and then on top of that, you're going to say that, 09:49 you know, the like, you know, many, 09:52 like movie stars and singers 09:53 they're also part of this group, 09:55 and they've all aligned to create one global system 09:59 that's going to dominate us. 10:00 I think it's incredible, and it really ignores history, 10:04 it ignores how this country functions, 10:07 you know, and it just doesn't really make a lot of sense 10:10 when you pull back the curtain 10:12 and you begin to examine the details of 10:14 what's really being shared. 10:15 Yeah, I agree with you, 10:17 and you've touched on something that is worth mentioning here 10:19 because it is significant. 10:21 You can go online and you can see endless videos 10:24 of public figures, entertainers, 10:27 mostly and others in the US 10:29 with all sorts of capitalistic 10:31 and New Age, spiritualistic, 10:37 purposely about to give one, but I shouldn't. 10:40 Signs, that's real enough. 10:41 I think there's a certain trendiness of evil 10:45 where they want to be in the in group 10:47 to show that they know the secret symbols. 10:51 But I don't think they're 10:52 directly part of some grand conspiracy at all. 10:55 It's just evil writ large in the world 10:57 as it from a Christian base. 10:59 So a classic example of what you will see in the video 11:02 is you will have one president, 11:04 and they will put up a little hand signal. 11:06 And then another, they show another image 11:09 of another president doing it, and so forth. 11:12 And then all of a sudden, 11:13 the custom one has put up a hand sign, 11:15 and no context is given, 11:18 all, you have this grand conspiracy, 11:20 they're all aligned, they're all in the same group 11:23 with the same agenda, 11:25 and towards global government. 11:27 And as an Adventist, 11:29 I think that runs counter to 11:31 what we believe will happen at the end of time. 11:33 And I think that's important for our church 11:37 not to embrace these kinds of views. 11:39 We don't believe in global government, 11:41 we actually believe in separation, and tension, 11:44 and conflict towards the end of time, 11:46 and that really is the order rather than a coming together 11:50 under one global system. 11:52 Well, it may not be a single global government, 11:55 but there is a coalition with the kings of the earth 11:58 give over their power for a season to a grand system, 12:02 which might or might not be the US itself. 12:06 But like, and this is the thing with these conspiracies, 12:10 they're not totally just plucked out of thin air, 12:14 they're sort of funhouse mirror versions of truth, 12:19 and then made more complicated. 12:21 This is the irony. 12:22 The people that get into conspiracies, 12:24 I think, many of them want to uncover truth 12:26 and find the meaning behind stuff, 12:28 but they actually complicate life, 12:29 they've thrown in layer after layer 12:33 of conspiracy and complication to... 12:36 What if you look at it simply, 12:39 and I think I alluded to it earlier 12:42 President Eisenhower warned the country 12:44 about military industrial complex, 12:47 that's real enough. 12:49 But then if you sort of mix it with a globalist view, 12:53 and the Bilderberg Group, 12:56 and behind closed doors, 12:57 these great power brokers are manipulating. 13:00 I think the evidence is greater that the kings of the earth 13:03 and the business leaders are more and more perplexed 13:05 about how to control stuff. 13:07 They're losing control, not gaining it. 13:08 Right, right. 13:12 The question is always to me, you know, 13:16 the groups that they pull together to say 13:18 that they're all working together, 13:20 are they really working together? 13:23 You know, what does... 13:26 Is Jay Z aligned with the Catholic Church 13:29 or is Rihanna aligned with Muslims 13:32 or, you know, they're not working, 13:34 they don't have the same agenda, 13:36 and that's really the problem, 13:38 we just throw things together, 13:40 and we put music behind it in the video, 13:43 it's scary music in a video, 13:45 and all of a sudden we have this grand theory 13:47 that kind of governs the world, 13:49 and I think it is just not based on reality. 13:52 We need to warn against it. 13:53 And I think another enabling factor in conspiracy theories 13:57 is there are often people 13:59 who are not well informed generally. 14:01 They might be well informed on the conspiracy supposedly, 14:04 but if you have... 14:07 If you're observant with things that go on, 14:09 if you have studied the backdrop, history 14:11 or know the political background, 14:13 things are a lot more self evident. 14:15 It takes a lot of the mystery out of things, 14:17 you're not so inclined toward 14:19 what we correctly call it conspiracy. 14:22 I mean some people dismiss out, 14:25 you know, a real explanation events, 14:27 "Oh, he's just a conspiracist," 14:28 but it may be very true. 14:30 So we need to be careful we don't just run away 14:33 from someone using the term lightly. 14:35 That I think is a good point to make. 14:38 Stay with us on this conspiratorial program. 14:42 But we're looking at it honestly as we can 14:45 because it's based on religious liberty. 14:46 Stay with us. We'll be back shortly. 14:48 Okay. |
Revised 2019-01-14