Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI180414B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:07 Before the break with Alan Reinach, 00:10 we were fully into the process of othering, 00:13 but coming at it from a biblical basis. 00:16 And you brought out some interesting analogies 00:20 or not analogies, 00:22 the really applications 00:24 that the Revelation 13 tells us. 00:28 And Seventh-day Adventists by the way 00:29 are not the only ones that believe 00:32 that we're at the end of time. 00:33 I mean, that goes back before the United States 00:35 was established, what's big with me 00:39 the civil war in England with the Puritans 00:41 rising up against the Catholic-leaning king. 00:43 They were heavily biased toward end time thinking. 00:47 The image of Daniel too, 00:50 the judgment bar 00:51 where everyone stood before God as equals, 00:53 that was a precursor 00:54 also to a communist, socialist mindset. 00:57 But, you know, 00:58 we don't need to apologize for I think for holding forth 01:02 that these are the end days. 01:05 It wasn't just Francis Fukuyama analyzing secular developments 01:10 or saying we're at the end of history. 01:11 He just meant not the end of history, 01:13 but all of the historic developments 01:15 have reached their sort of full development. 01:17 Unfortunately, 01:19 we're in the devolution of man's progress. 01:21 But we're in the evolution 01:23 or development of an anti-system 01:27 that Satan's trying to destroy God's people and God's truth. 01:30 So we're going to be othered in this final play up 01:35 that will end with Christ coming. 01:37 But along the way, 01:38 we have to endure a great polarization 01:40 and an opposition from a secular 01:42 perhaps mainstream 01:44 who would portray us as not part of society, 01:46 not even good humans, deserving of death. 01:50 So there's a real danger here, Lincoln, 01:52 because a common theme today, 01:55 is it Christians are being persecuted in America. 01:58 And that somehow we're a minority 02:01 and a beleaguered minority at that. 02:02 And what did Jesus say? 02:04 Let's go... 02:05 You have the Jesus' statement. 02:07 "All who live a godly life will suffer persecution." 02:10 So it shouldn't be thought strange, 02:11 even in a free land, 02:13 that there is ongoing persecution 02:16 in often subtle ways, but consistently. 02:18 The fact is, Christianity 02:19 is still is in a majority position 02:22 here in this country. 02:24 The response to the perception of being a beleaguered minority 02:29 is to exercise political clout 02:32 and to seek a closer affiliation 02:36 with the state to tear down the wall of separation 02:39 between church and state 02:40 and to use government power as it, 02:43 really it becomes a substitute 02:45 for the power of the Holy Spirit. 02:46 And that's been developing at least openly 02:49 since the 70s in the US. 02:50 But I think it's reaching a crescendo clamor 02:53 for political power to uphold "Christian faith." 02:57 And what we need to keep in mind, 02:59 you and I have spoken about this. 03:01 But make a distinction 03:02 between nominal Christianity or affiliation. 03:05 And those that are in their lives 03:07 consistently embodying 03:09 Christian principles and charity. 03:13 And there's always been a great spread between that. 03:16 So minorities are just like the... 03:19 Well, the sheep and the goats, 03:20 and the wise and the foolish virgins... 03:23 Anyway you want to cut it, 03:24 the Bible makes it plain or Gideon with the few, 03:29 many make the claim, 03:31 but not many at the end of the day 03:32 who are true, faithful, 03:34 Bible believing Christ following Christians. 03:37 But, so my point is because, you know, yes, 03:40 the Bible is clear 03:41 that true Christians will be persecuted. 03:43 And I think we need to distinguish that 03:45 from the perception of Christianity 03:49 in America as a beleaguered minority 03:52 because what that leads to wrongly 03:55 is this close alliance 03:57 with worldly power with the state. 04:02 Worldly power was one of the devil's temptations 04:05 to Christ in the wilderness. 04:07 And, you know, 04:08 if Jesus had been willing to bow down 04:10 before the devil, 04:12 He could have had the entire world. 04:14 The devil has been offering 04:15 that same bargain to the church ever since. 04:19 And today in America as never before, 04:22 the church is taking him up on that offer. 04:25 And we see it 04:26 in the front pages of our newspapers. 04:28 I had discussion before this sequence 04:30 I felt that you were keen on reading aloud 04:33 John McCain's great speech at the Liberty dinner. 04:36 I've been tempted on a number of occasions 04:38 and may fall to the temptation 04:40 later in another time to read a poem, 04:42 an old poem, probably 100 years old, 04:45 the church walking with the world. 04:47 And it figures, probably explains exactly 04:50 what you were saying. 04:51 The temptation has always been 04:53 there for the church to be accepted by the world 04:56 to do as the world does, 04:58 to have the same power and prerogatives as the world. 05:00 And the net effect as the poem says the church is disgraced 05:06 and become something 05:07 other than this in the words of Jesus. 05:09 I know you're poor, naked, blind, and filthy, and so on, 05:13 as the Church of Laodicea lost its power. 05:17 And when we're talking about church, and state, 05:19 and religious freedom, 05:21 I think we need to throw that in, 05:22 legally not, you defend people's right 05:24 regardless of how good a Christian they are. 05:27 It's allowed under the law. 05:29 But we need to acknowledge 05:30 most people are not what they say they are, 05:34 most what passes for Christianity 05:36 is not what it should be, 05:39 and moving toward the state 05:40 that is mostly not from a true Christian sentiment. 05:44 Well, you know, 05:45 this ties in with this whole notion 05:46 of a Christian nation, Ross Douthat... 05:48 Absolutely. 05:50 We're always questioning that bad assumption. 05:52 New York Times columnist believing Roman Catholic. 05:57 I heard him on being interviewed by Bill Maher. 05:59 Who is this? 06:01 Ross Douthat, one of the few 06:03 who could really get one up on Bill Maher. 06:08 And he said, "In America, 06:10 we have more people professing belief 06:13 and fewer people going to church." 06:15 So what does that make us? 06:17 It doesn't make us a Christian nation, 06:19 it makes us a nation of heretics. 06:21 Or, yeah... 06:23 Or Pharisees. 06:25 You know, professing belief 06:27 and yet not actually participating 06:29 in the life of worship and in the life of the church. 06:32 And it's their right 06:33 within the construct of the civil country 06:35 that was designed to protect religion, 06:39 but it's up to the individual 06:40 what they do with their life. 06:42 Oh, of course. Of course. 06:44 But I think we need to be aware of kind of trumpeting, 06:48 oh, poor us, 06:50 you know, we are the persecuted minority... 06:55 Who was the guy 06:56 that wrote the book about lions? 06:59 There was a book written about Christians 07:00 being persecuted in America. 07:03 Yeah, I think I know what you're talking about. 07:04 The book a Virtuous, his brother wrote it. 07:06 One of the Bennetts. 07:08 Yes. His younger brother wrote it. 07:10 And that was Christians in the lion's den 07:12 basically, I read the book. 07:13 And I'm sympathetic too 07:15 because as you and I agree Christians 07:17 are having a difficult time in many ways 07:19 even within the US. 07:20 But his view of persecution 07:22 was basically they're not being given the power. 07:25 Well, all right. 07:27 But let's unpack this a little bit 07:28 because, you know, 07:30 I mean I deal with religious discrimination 07:33 is my kind of bread and butter, 07:35 fighting these cases on behalf of people of all faiths. 07:40 When we're looking at Christians being persecuted 07:45 or part of the problem is the culture wars. 07:49 And how offensive Christianity has been in being, 07:55 you know, combative with, you know, 07:59 with those who espouse liberal secular values. 08:02 And how willing the church has been... 08:05 Well, now you're getting close to something 08:07 that I have a burden on. 08:09 I really object. 08:10 And you and I have been in meetings 08:12 where it said that the true enemy is secularism. 08:17 Secularism is a problem for religious freedom. 08:20 Personified however you like, 08:22 but that's a sign of the problem, 08:24 it isn't the problem, 08:26 the problem is lack of spirituality 08:28 and lack of Christian commitment. 08:32 Secularism's strongest approach to religion in general is just, 08:38 we don't want it. 08:40 Secularism is seldom. 08:41 And I know a few proponent site, 08:46 Stalin and some others, 08:47 you know, secularism sophisticated. 08:48 But generally, secularism 08:53 or paganism doesn't care about religion. 08:56 It's even in pagan Rome, 08:59 they generally left the Christians alone 09:01 until they thought correctly 09:03 that they were not loyal to the Emperor 09:06 and the emperor cult. 09:07 You know, what I have to say to culture warriors, Lincoln, 09:10 is what Jesus said to Peter, 09:13 "Put up your sword, Peter, 09:15 for he who takes the sword, will die by the sword. 09:19 The church... 09:20 And taking political power 09:21 will live and die by political power. 09:23 The church does not win the world 09:26 through combat. 09:28 It wins souls to Christ by words with Christ. 09:32 The swords without clashing the deeds of love and mercy. 09:34 There you go. 09:35 So, you know, if there's one thing 09:36 that I would like to say as we close. 09:39 It comes back to Matthew 25 09:43 where we talked about the least of these, 09:45 the opposite of othering. 09:48 Today, increasingly because of the culture wars 09:51 because of, 09:53 you know, the identification of the church with, 09:56 you know, political conservatism. 09:59 Increasingly the world 10:01 is not seeing Jesus in the church. 10:04 And I think the only way 10:06 that the message of Matthew 25 is, 10:10 they're not going to see Jesus in us 10:13 until we learn to see Jesus in them. 10:15 Jesus tells us "And as much as you've done 10:17 to the least of one of these, my brethren, 10:20 you've done it unto Me." 10:22 And we need to see in the very ones 10:24 that are not part of our tribe, they're not part of our group, 10:27 and not part of our church, 10:29 they're not part of however we identify ourselves. 10:32 We need to see Jesus in them. 10:34 And maybe as we learn to see Jesus in them, 10:37 some of them will see Jesus through our kindness, 10:40 and our compassion, and our love. 10:45 Every now and again, I watched historic footage 10:48 from World War II, 10:50 and the horrors that accompanied it. 10:51 There are bodies powered like court would, 10:54 then back from that there are flown 10:57 looking Jewish German citizens 10:59 with stars of David on their chest. 11:02 And then before that, 11:04 the other day I saw gerbils ranting and raving 11:06 about how all of Germany's troubles 11:08 have been caused by the Jews. 11:10 And he said, "Our patience will not long last." 11:12 There was a process of othering. 11:15 I see it too in the West today, in the United States, 11:18 certain groups, even the media, enemy, they're being othered, 11:24 and you cannot arrive at body stack like court would, 11:28 unless you dehumanize the opposition, 11:31 portray them as absolute evil. 11:33 We must resist that and all people of faith, 11:36 all Christians are called to raise the spirit 11:40 and the dignity of humankind 11:42 by reminding ourselves that we are God's progeny. 11:46 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2018-12-17