Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break
with Alan Reinach,
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we were fully into
the process of othering,
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but coming at it
from a biblical basis.
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And you brought out
some interesting analogies
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or not analogies,
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the really applications
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that the Revelation 13 tells us.
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And Seventh-day
Adventists by the way
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are not the only
ones that believe
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that we're at the end of time.
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I mean, that goes back
before the United States
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was established,
what's big with me
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the civil war in
England with the Puritans
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rising up against the
Catholic-leaning king.
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They were heavily biased
toward end time thinking.
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The image of Daniel too,
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the judgment bar
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where everyone stood
before God as equals,
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that was a precursor
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also to a
communist, socialist mindset.
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But, you know,
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we don't need to apologize
for I think for holding forth
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that these are the end days.
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It wasn't just Francis Fukuyama
analyzing secular developments
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or saying we're at
the end of history.
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He just meant not
the end of history,
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but all of the
historic developments
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have reached their
sort of full development.
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Unfortunately,
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we're in the
devolution of man's progress.
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But we're in the evolution
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or development of an anti-system
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that Satan's trying to destroy
God's people and God's truth.
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So we're going to be
othered in this final play up
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that will end
with Christ coming.
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But along the way,
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we have to endure
a great polarization
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and an opposition from a secular
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perhaps mainstream
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who would portray us
as not part of society,
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not even good
humans, deserving of death.
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So there's a real
danger here, Lincoln,
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because a common theme today,
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is it Christians are
being persecuted in America.
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And that
somehow we're a minority
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and a
beleaguered minority at that.
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And what did Jesus say?
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Let's go...
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You have the Jesus' statement.
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"All who live a godly
life will suffer persecution."
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So it shouldn't
be thought strange,
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even in a free land,
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that there is
ongoing persecution
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in often subtle
ways, but consistently.
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The fact is, Christianity
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is still is in a
majority position
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here in this country.
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The response to the perception
of being a beleaguered minority
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is to exercise political clout
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and to seek a closer affiliation
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with the state to tear
down the wall of separation
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between church and state
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and to use
government power as it,
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really it becomes a substitute
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for the power
of the Holy Spirit.
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And that's been
developing at least openly
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since the 70s in the US.
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But I think it's
reaching a crescendo clamor
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for political power to
uphold "Christian faith."
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And what we
need to keep in mind,
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you and I have
spoken about this.
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But make a distinction
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between nominal
Christianity or affiliation.
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And those that
are in their lives
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consistently embodying
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Christian
principles and charity.
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And there's always been a
great spread between that.
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So minorities
are just like the...
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Well, the sheep and the goats,
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and the wise and
the foolish virgins...
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Anyway you want to cut it,
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the Bible makes it
plain or Gideon with the few,
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many make the claim,
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but not many at
the end of the day
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who are true, faithful,
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Bible believing
Christ following Christians.
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But, so my point is
because, you know, yes,
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the Bible is clear
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that true
Christians will be persecuted.
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And I think we
need to distinguish that
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from the
perception of Christianity
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in America as a
beleaguered minority
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because what
that leads to wrongly
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is this close alliance
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with worldly
power with the state.
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Worldly power was one
of the devil's temptations
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to Christ in the wilderness.
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And, you know,
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if Jesus had been
willing to bow down
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before the devil,
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He could have
had the entire world.
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The devil has been offering
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that same bargain to
the church ever since.
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And today in
America as never before,
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the church is taking
him up on that offer.
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And we see it
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in the front
pages of our newspapers.
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I had discussion
before this sequence
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I felt that you were
keen on reading aloud
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John McCain's great
speech at the Liberty dinner.
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I've been tempted on
a number of occasions
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and may fall to the temptation
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later in another
time to read a poem,
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an old poem,
probably 100 years old,
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the church
walking with the world.
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And it figures,
probably explains exactly
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what you were saying.
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The temptation has always been
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there for the church to
be accepted by the world
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to do as the world does,
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to have the same power
and prerogatives as the world.
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And the net effect as the poem
says the church is disgraced
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and become something
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other than this in
the words of Jesus.
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I know you're poor, naked,
blind, and filthy, and so on,
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as the Church of
Laodicea lost its power.
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And when we're talking
about church, and state,
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and religious freedom,
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I think we need
to throw that in,
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legally not, you
defend people's right
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regardless of how
good a Christian they are.
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It's allowed under the law.
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But we need to acknowledge
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most people are not
what they say they are,
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most what
passes for Christianity
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is not what it should be,
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and moving toward the state
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that is mostly not from
a true Christian sentiment.
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Well, you know,
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this ties in
with this whole notion
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of a Christian
nation, Ross Douthat...
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Absolutely.
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We're always
questioning that bad assumption.
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New York Times columnist
believing Roman Catholic.
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I heard him on being
interviewed by Bill Maher.
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Who is this?
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Ross Douthat, one of the few
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who could really get
one up on Bill Maher.
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And he said, "In America,
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we have more
people professing belief
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and fewer people
going to church."
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So what does that make us?
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It doesn't make us
a Christian nation,
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it makes us a
nation of heretics.
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Or, yeah...
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Or Pharisees.
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You know, professing belief
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and yet not
actually participating
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in the life of worship
and in the life of the church.
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And it's their right
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within the
construct of the civil country
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that was designed
to protect religion,
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but it's up to the individual
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what they do with their life.
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Oh, of course. Of course.
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But I think we need to be
aware of kind of trumpeting,
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oh, poor us,
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you know, we are the
persecuted minority...
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Who was the guy
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that wrote the book about lions?
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There was a book
written about Christians
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being persecuted in America.
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Yeah, I think I know
what you're talking about.
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The book a Virtuous,
his brother wrote it.
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One of the Bennetts.
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Yes. His younger
brother wrote it.
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And that was
Christians in the lion's den
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basically, I read the book.
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And I'm sympathetic too
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because as you
and I agree Christians
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are having a
difficult time in many ways
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even within the US.
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But his view of persecution
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was basically they're
not being given the power.
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Well, all right.
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But let's unpack
this a little bit
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because, you know,
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I mean I deal with
religious discrimination
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is my kind of bread and butter,
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fighting these cases on
behalf of people of all faiths.
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When we're looking at
Christians being persecuted
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or part of the
problem is the culture wars.
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And how offensive
Christianity has been in being,
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you know,
combative with, you know,
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with those who espouse
liberal secular values.
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And how willing
the church has been...
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Well, now you're
getting close to something
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that I have a burden on.
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I really object.
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And you and I
have been in meetings
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where it said that the
true enemy is secularism.
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Secularism is a
problem for religious freedom.
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Personified however you like,
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but that's a
sign of the problem,
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it isn't the problem,
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the problem is
lack of spirituality
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and lack of
Christian commitment.
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Secularism's strongest approach
to religion in general is just,
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we don't want it.
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Secularism is seldom.
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And I know a few proponent site,
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Stalin and some others,
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you know,
secularism sophisticated.
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But generally, secularism
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or paganism doesn't
care about religion.
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It's even in pagan Rome,
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they generally left
the Christians alone
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until they thought correctly
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that they were not
loyal to the Emperor
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and the emperor cult.
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You know, what I have to say
to culture warriors, Lincoln,
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is what Jesus said to Peter,
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"Put up your sword, Peter,
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for he who takes the
sword, will die by the sword.
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The church...
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And taking political power
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will live and die
by political power.
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The church does
not win the world
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through combat.
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It wins souls to
Christ by words with Christ.
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The swords without clashing
the deeds of love and mercy.
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There you go.
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So, you know, if
there's one thing
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that I would like
to say as we close.
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It comes back to Matthew 25
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where we talked
about the least of these,
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the opposite of othering.
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Today, increasingly
because of the culture wars
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because of,
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you know, the identification
of the church with,
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you know,
political conservatism.
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Increasingly the world
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is not seeing
Jesus in the church.
00:10:01.50\00:10:04.27
And I think the only way
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that the message
of Matthew 25 is,
00:10:06.37\00:10:10.61
they're not going
to see Jesus in us
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until we learn to
see Jesus in them.
00:10:13.14\00:10:15.61
Jesus tells us "And
as much as you've done
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to the least of one
of these, my brethren,
00:10:17.85\00:10:20.42
you've done it unto Me."
00:10:20.45\00:10:22.32
And we need to
see in the very ones
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that are not part of our tribe,
they're not part of our group,
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and not part of our church,
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they're not part of
however we identify ourselves.
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We need to see Jesus in them.
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And maybe as we
learn to see Jesus in them,
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some of them will see
Jesus through our kindness,
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and our
compassion, and our love.
00:10:40.84\00:10:42.50
Every now and again, I
watched historic footage
00:10:45.91\00:10:48.68
from World War II,
00:10:48.71\00:10:50.05
and the horrors
that accompanied it.
00:10:50.08\00:10:51.75
There are bodies
powered like court would,
00:10:51.78\00:10:54.45
then back from
that there are flown
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looking Jewish German citizens
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with stars of
David on their chest.
00:10:59.85\00:11:02.72
And then before that,
00:11:02.76\00:11:04.09
the other day I saw
gerbils ranting and raving
00:11:04.13\00:11:06.46
about how all of
Germany's troubles
00:11:06.49\00:11:08.60
have been caused by the Jews.
00:11:08.63\00:11:10.03
And he said, "Our
patience will not long last."
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There was a process of othering.
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I see it too in the West
today, in the United States,
00:11:15.97\00:11:18.87
certain groups, even the media,
enemy, they're being othered,
00:11:18.91\00:11:24.15
and you cannot arrive at
body stack like court would,
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unless you
dehumanize the opposition,
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portray them as absolute evil.
00:11:31.12\00:11:33.19
We must resist that
and all people of faith,
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all Christians are
called to raise the spirit
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and the dignity of humankind
00:11:40.43\00:11:42.63
by reminding ourselves
that we are God's progeny.
00:11:42.66\00:11:46.94
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:11:46.97\00:11:49.64