Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI180414A
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00:26 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:27 This is your program, 00:29 bringing you everything 00:31 that matters on religious liberty. 00:32 Everything. Everything. 00:34 I guess he's already into the game here. 00:36 But we're bringing you news, you need that information, 00:39 you need that and perhaps an interpretation and analysis. 00:43 And my name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty magazine. 00:47 And my guest on the program, Attorney Alan Reinach. 00:51 A man that speaks up without any inhibition. 00:53 Not a big wall fire, no. 00:56 Not a bit of it. 00:57 From the Church State Council in California, 00:59 Executive Director. 01:02 So we'll talk about something that I could be tempted to do 01:05 when someone speaks up like othering, 01:09 addresses of othering. 01:10 Take the word other and make it into a verb. 01:14 Now you're preaching on this at the moment. 01:17 You told me preparing a sermon. 01:18 Liberty magazines had an article on this. 01:21 It isn't just a whimsical topic 01:23 that we want to share right now. 01:25 I think this is a very real 01:27 dynamic that's happened in the past before, 01:29 but we're definitely living through a process 01:33 where other human beings, 01:34 either from another race, another ethnicity, 01:40 or nationality, or of another religion, 01:43 just of another group of humans 01:45 or other made into ultimately non humans. 01:49 And then very bad things often happen 01:51 when that dynamic kicks in, right? 01:53 You know, Lincoln, what I want to do is contrast 01:57 two passages of scripture, Revelation 13 and Matthew 25. 02:03 Revelation 13, we have persecution against those 02:07 who do not accept the mark of the beast. 02:10 And I don't know... 02:11 Which is pretty severe because you can't buy or sell 02:13 unless you go along with this. 02:14 You can't buy or sell. 02:16 And ultimately it's a capital offense 02:17 not to participate in the majority form 02:20 of worship. 02:22 I mean, people get hung up on whether, 02:23 you know, it's in the fold, 02:25 I mean where it's branded on you or whatever. 02:27 But it's clearly a distinguishing characteristic 02:29 that you buy into. 02:31 But what we miss, if we read this to, you know, shallowly, 02:36 what we miss is persecution is the end of a long sequence 02:42 where first you have to identify the other, 02:47 the other becomes the scapegoat. 02:49 Well, can I quote Ellen White, 02:51 an early writer of our church and I can't memorize it... 02:53 I haven't memorized it exactly. 02:54 But she says, talking about persecution, she says, 02:56 other than, you know, 02:58 people give in other than expose themselves to derision, 03:03 insult, threaten persecution. 03:05 And this is a progression and it usually starts with, 03:08 you know, you're not part of the in crowd. 03:11 And then very cutting insults, 03:14 then maybe legal action and all, but it's a process. 03:16 Othering is not just instantly you're someone else. 03:19 It's a dynamic, so it has to be worked through. 03:22 In American life, we other in many different ways. 03:26 You know, I grew up in New York City. 03:29 I was a big fan of the New York Mets. 03:32 We had a big rivalry. 03:33 I was a Knicks fan, 03:35 rivalry between the Knicks and the Lakers, 03:37 and the Knicks and the Celtics. 03:39 You know, we other based on our allegiance 03:42 to our sports teams. 03:43 Now this may seem trivial, but of course we also other, 03:47 we identify ourselves. 03:49 Oh, I'm a southerner. 03:51 I'm a Yankee. 03:52 I'm a Texan. 03:53 You know, geographically 03:56 and by ethnicity and, of course, 03:59 by nationality, I'm an American. 04:01 So we tend to define our own identity in a way 04:06 that excludes others. 04:08 Well, I mean, as we get into this 04:10 and I agree with you. 04:11 We need to say this, 04:13 if not a good then a natural element to it. 04:16 I think in modern society what we're really searching 04:19 for is a sort of a tribal identity 04:22 which like the tribal identification provided, 04:25 we get it through other means. 04:27 You could be all united by your club identity 04:30 in football so. 04:33 The mark of the beast is the extreme example 04:35 of what happens when we scapegoat 04:38 a group of people, they're the other, 04:40 they're the problem, 04:42 they're the ones who are causing 04:43 all the trouble in the world, and they have to be eliminated. 04:47 Extreme form of othering. 04:49 Now let's contrast that with Matthew 25. 04:52 Matthew 25, Jesus says, 04:54 "And as much as you've done it to the least of these, 04:56 you've done it to Me." 04:58 Now in the parable, the sheep and the goats, 05:02 they didn't realize that they were doing it to Jesus. 05:04 But, of course, Jesus has pulled the curtain aside. 05:07 So now we have no excuse. 05:09 We've read the parable. 05:10 We know that how we treat the other, 05:14 the least of these is the other. 05:16 It's the people that are not one of us. 05:19 Whoever that is, if you see somebody is beneath you, 05:24 they are the other, and how we treat the other. 05:28 Brings them into the world. 05:30 Where is how we're treating Jesus. 05:34 Yeah, but by treating them that way, 05:37 it shows that they are included in God's care. 05:41 They're not on the outside, they're actually in. 05:44 Of course. We brought them in. 05:45 Well, and if you, you know, understand what this, 05:49 Jesus taught this parable, 05:51 this is the standard in the judgment. 05:54 Okay. 05:55 Now Christians, you know, we kind of blindly think, "Oh, 06:00 well, if I've accepted Jesus into my heart, 06:03 you know, and I confess my allegiance 06:06 and my love for Jesus, then I'm saved." 06:10 And that's the end of it. 06:12 I'm saved, I'm a Christian, right? 06:14 Well, Jesus tells us parable, 06:17 the standard in the judgment 06:20 is not whether you accepted Jesus in your heart, 06:23 and I believe in all of that. 06:24 Well, it's a prerequisite. 06:26 But it's how you treat the least of these. 06:30 Do you treat people 06:32 with the kind of respect and courtesy, 06:35 kindness and compassion as if they were Jesus. 06:41 It's a judgment parable. 06:43 That's what it is. 06:45 And it's the opposite of othering, 06:47 because we look, 06:49 we all have various kinds of biases. 06:53 It comes with our cultural baggage, with our heritage. 06:57 It is unavoidable. 06:59 It's not a sin to have the biases. 07:01 The question is, are we going to become conscious of them 07:05 and are we going to consciously seek 07:09 to overcome them. 07:10 Our natural tendency... 07:12 Yes, I'm glad you said that because I think we need 07:13 to overcome or transcend them, maybe is a better word. 07:17 Because you know Paul says that there is in Christ now, 07:19 neither Jew nor Gentile, 07:21 male nor female, slave nor free. 07:22 We're all in the common brotherhood of man, 07:26 and we need to hang on to that thought. 07:27 We also need to reject the politics of othering 07:31 because politics is all about creating enemies, 07:37 creating danger, selling fear. 07:39 You know, the liberals are going to get us, 07:42 the conservatives are going to get us, 07:44 those wacko fundamentalists are going to get us, 07:46 or the immigrants are the problem, 07:48 or the Muslims are the problem, 07:50 you know, somebody else is the problem. 07:54 And you need to vote for me 07:56 because I'm going to deal with the problem. 07:58 We're selling fear and we're selling othering. 08:02 Well, at the moment the situation in the US 08:03 troubles me and I'm not sure anybody has thought it through. 08:06 You know, we're all, but war with the Iranians. 08:10 We're even threatening 08:11 for the first time Saudi Arabia. 08:13 We're talking up China 08:15 as an existential enemy, Russia. 08:18 I mean... North Korea. 08:20 Even Australia got into trouble. 08:21 So, well, but Canada's threat the national security. 08:26 Canadian steel anyway. 08:27 My life's not been very successful, 08:29 but I've even thought several times, 08:31 it's not good on a personal level 08:32 to have a war on too many fronts, 08:35 you can't fight everybody. 08:37 So we're in the process of... 08:39 I've said for years, 08:40 you have to choose your battles. 08:42 Yeah, so we're in the process in the US as a nation, 08:46 like it or not because we don't control it 08:48 individually very much. 08:49 But we're in the process of othering everybody else. 08:52 And the suspicion 08:54 and the antagonisms that come as a result of that 08:56 are very bad and they're not going to play out well, 08:59 both in a secular and religious sense 09:01 because it based on how we see fellow human beings. 09:07 You know, we've spoken in another program 09:09 about the originally Protestant, 09:12 but now generally Christian mindset of the populace. 09:16 But how can that be sustained when enemies here, 09:18 enemies there, others there. 09:20 And I don't think it's by accident 09:22 that within the year 09:24 I've heard open talk from people with authority 09:27 that we might need to do something analogous 09:29 to detaining all the Japanese 09:31 which was a great blot on the US historical record. 09:35 Why would we do it again? 09:37 In what situation will we detain a whole people? 09:40 Look, I'm quite sure that most of our listeners 09:45 who are Christian conservatives 09:48 would reject the notion that they're racist, okay? 09:52 I don't know, you know, 09:54 any of the folks I go to church with, 09:56 nobody's going to say, "Yeah, I'm, you know, I'm racist." 09:59 No, that's the same with religious liberty. 10:01 I never met anyone that says 10:02 they're against religious freedom. 10:03 But how they execute it is very telling off. 10:06 And yet, you know, you and I have both been in circles 10:10 where in, you know, 10:13 the name of national self interest 10:15 and all kinds of political ideas 10:21 we hear very blunt, 10:25 racially insensitive positions taken, 10:30 you know, whether it's about immigrants, 10:32 whether it's about demographics 10:34 and, you know, which population groups are reproducing faster, 10:39 and what we need to do to maintain the, 10:42 you know, white supremacy or... 10:44 That's not usually said that openly, 10:47 but that says something. 10:48 I've heard, I have heard it said quite openly in events 10:51 that you and I have both attended. 10:53 Yeah. Yeah. 10:55 I won't name, you know... 10:56 The climate is changing in really dangerous ways. 11:00 And I don't think even some of the people 11:02 making these statements quite know 11:03 what they're saying, like you say, 11:04 how be anybody will openly acknowledge they're racist. 11:07 But under certain circumstances they'll subtle let slip 11:11 a comment that reveals all. 11:13 Well, look... 11:14 And permission is being given in subtle ways for people 11:17 to say and act on those sentiments. 11:21 But, you know, we've said before racism 11:24 is America's original sin. 11:27 And it strikes many commentators, 11:32 certainly strikes myself that the phenomenon 11:36 of the Trump election 11:38 was a backlash in particular against two aspects 11:43 of the Obama era. 11:45 One certainly was kind of the overreach 11:49 of LGBT rights, 11:50 and then morphing into the emphasis 11:53 on transgender, and the bathroom issue. 11:56 And I think many Americans looked at these trends 12:01 and were horrified. 12:02 And so naturally, despite the fact 12:07 that there was a pretty strong conservative, 12:10 you know, what do they call it, a know Trump movement. 12:17 The fact is, you know, 12:19 between the choices that were presented, 12:22 many Americans chose to go with Trump 12:25 because they couldn't stomach 12:26 more of the liberal social trends 12:30 that were started under Obama. 12:32 But the other aspect of this, 12:34 you know, pendulum swing or backlash was eight years 12:38 of an African-American president. 12:40 And the backlash... 12:41 It was offensive to a certain group. 12:43 It was very offensive. 12:45 And we've seen a considerable degree of racism 12:48 in the backlash. 12:50 And one of the things that, you know, look, 12:52 I explained to liberals 12:55 who don't understand how we got Trump, 12:57 I explain to them why I think we got Trump. 13:00 But I also like to explain to conservatives, guess what? 13:03 There's life after Trump. 13:05 You know, whether he gets four years, or eight years, 13:08 or whatever happens, you know, 13:09 the pendulum is going to swing back the other way. 13:12 And the sharper the swing in one direction, 13:16 you know, there's an equal and opposite reaction... 13:18 To some degree, yes. 13:20 There's no question, 13:21 but it's not as simple as just emphasis at the time. 13:25 There's underlying and you've alluded too. 13:27 There is underlying attitudes that have been along. 13:29 And, yes, I think the apparent victory over historic bias 13:36 with Obama's election actually made things 13:39 worse in a strange way. 13:41 But you know, when it comes to othering, 13:44 and you know, like as I said, 13:46 I like to tie this in with the mark of the beast. 13:49 The problem that most Christians 13:52 overlook is Jesus' 13:54 comments in Matthew 24 about the end times. 14:00 And He suggests that the very ones 14:02 who are going to be othered 14:04 are the Bible believing Christians. 14:06 That's true. 14:07 And unfortunately, they left behind another books 14:09 that sort of spun that in the wrong direction 14:11 because they throw in the secret rapture. 14:14 Well, they say, "We'll all be gone, 14:15 so it won't matter." 14:17 But unfortunately for them 14:19 and unfortunately for God's plan 14:22 to make a strong witness at the end of time, 14:25 we're going to see it through and the othering is a dynamic 14:28 we will have to face. 14:30 We'll take a break now. 14:31 We'll be back and pursue this a little further. 14:34 A biblical prediction perhaps of where we're heading. 14:37 Stay with us. |
Revised 2018-12-17