Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI180413A
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00:26 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:28 This is your program bringing news, views, information, 00:32 analysis, and today, 00:34 some really good discussion on religious liberty events. 00:37 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:41 And my guest on the program is Attorney Alan Reinach, 00:45 Executive Director 00:46 of the California Church State Council, 00:49 and a repeat guest on this program I should say. 00:54 I'm glad to have you on my radio show once in a while. 00:56 Yes. And that's what I was fishing for. 00:57 We work together on many things. 00:59 Sure. 01:00 You're on my radio program and I'm on yours. 01:04 Freedom is ringing for... 01:05 Yeah, yeah. 01:07 And I depend on you 01:09 and your organization to promote 01:10 Liberty Magazine so... 01:12 Of course. 01:13 It's incestuous as it gets, yet the good cause. 01:17 Let's talk about something that's equally as disputatious 01:21 is what we just said. 01:24 We live in an era 01:25 I think where it's hard to know what is the truth. 01:28 Doesn't the Bible say something about ever learning 01:30 and never arriving at the truth? 01:31 True. 01:33 And unless you have spiritual insight, 01:34 I think it's becoming very much a fact that today you can read, 01:37 you go online, and you can fill your head full of lizard, 01:40 people, news, and this and that, the other and... 01:43 What is true anymore? 01:45 There's some very good online sites 01:48 about the flat earth. 01:49 And the latest, we were just talking 01:51 before the filming about airplanes. 01:53 I should have you know that 01:54 there are some serious people online 01:56 that are quite convinced the planes run on nothing 01:58 but air that they're just going through the motions 02:01 to fill it with gas that runs on compressed air. 02:04 Well... And that they levitate. 02:06 You know, without embarrassing people I'm close to, 02:11 there are those that I know in my sphere 02:14 who believe in the Loch Ness Monster, 02:17 who believe that the moon landing never occurred, 02:20 you know, of course, aliens, that's an easy one. 02:23 Right. 02:25 And the irony is this is happening in the context 02:27 of increased education 02:29 or access to education by people, not just in the US, 02:32 but in most of the world 02:34 comparative to what it used to be. 02:36 There're all sorts of news outlets 02:38 and not just the internet, 02:40 but people seem divorced 02:42 from truth in an unprecedented manner. 02:46 And in the United States now we're living through a period 02:48 where it's been publicly said fake news 02:51 and of course it's defined... 02:53 Depends on who's making the claim as to what's fake. 02:56 But the net effect is I don't think 02:57 people are quite sure about anything anymore. 03:00 Well, you know, if we can trace it 03:02 back just a step or two, 03:05 postmodernism is really defined 03:08 by a shift away from the logic 03:13 and the reason that were kind of the center 03:16 of the enlightenment, and a shift towards experience. 03:21 Well, one of the... 03:22 If it's true... 03:24 If it's true for you. 03:25 And we've had a public figure saying it, 03:27 "I believe it's true, therefore it's true. 03:28 If I think it's true, that makes it true." 03:29 Well... 03:31 That's my reality. 03:32 And what was Rudy Giuliani's statement? 03:35 You know, there is no truth. 03:37 Yeah. 03:38 Isn't that what he said? 03:40 Something to that effect. 03:41 Of course, we're back to Pilate, 03:43 you know, what is truth. Uh-huh. 03:45 I mean, philosophically, it's always been the question. 03:50 But truth in the sense of hard news 03:53 and information about things that are happening around us, 03:56 I don't think it's ever been 03:57 as unclear in people's minds as now. 04:01 The problem is that 04:04 we're all filtering out everything 04:08 through the spin doctors. 04:10 And so whether you're a conservative 04:12 or you're a liberal, whether you're a Christian, 04:15 whether you're a secular person, 04:18 you know, you have your sources 04:20 and we're increasingly 04:22 narrowing what we're exposed to. 04:23 Either you're in the Fox News Camp 04:26 or you're in the MSNBC Camp. 04:27 Well, I don't claim to be a conservative 04:29 for a liberal in, 04:30 you know, in a... 04:32 Well, you're more widely exposed 04:35 to both sides and most people. 04:36 But I will make the statement 04:38 because I know it is effect of history. 04:40 Fox Network comes by way of a man 04:43 that once was an Australian, Murdoch, 04:45 he's taken out American citizenship. 04:46 Right. 04:48 But, I mean, his whole career started in Australia... 04:50 And he had the Fox Network there, 04:52 and the whole thing began not as news 04:55 but as biased entertainment. 04:57 It's highly structured for a certain viewpoint. 05:02 It used to make no pretense, 05:05 not giving you general information 05:08 or a balanced view on anything. 05:11 And those that don't agree with the Fox Network 05:14 know that's still to be true in the US, 05:16 but many others take it as fact and it's very unfortunate 05:20 and they're not the only ones but I think they're Exhibit A. 05:22 And the reason I mention it, 05:24 its Exhibit A was intended to be that way, 05:26 it never was set up to give you open facts. 05:29 It was a biased, narrow, 05:32 packaged set of information for entertainment 05:36 as much as anything. 05:37 Well, and, you know, I agree with that. 05:38 But that's been writ large in their whole communications. 05:40 That certainly was. 05:43 What Rush Limbaugh... 05:45 Same thing with Rush Limbaugh. 05:46 You know, he excelled at entertainment. 05:49 Whatever you think of his perspective, 05:52 you know, he was very... 05:53 He is I think still very popular, 05:56 very, very entertaining. 05:57 And I think for quite a while now the US population 06:02 particular have been manipulated 06:04 by what passes for news. 06:07 And it does not escape me, 06:10 I read a lot of articles 06:12 and any number of public officials 06:14 I've picked up at different times 06:16 have been reading and studying Goebbels and the modern advent 06:22 of propaganda techniques. 06:24 So I'm not trying to invoke Nazism, 06:27 but Nazism put into practice modern concepts 06:31 of manipulating groupthink. 06:34 You know, what I would say to both liberals 06:38 and conservatives, Lincoln, 06:39 is beware any time somebody is peddling fear. 06:45 Fear is one of the most powerful political tools 06:49 in the arsenal 06:50 and so much of what we see in our political discourse 06:53 is be afraid, be very afraid. 06:57 Whether it's the Christians saying, 06:59 "Be afraid of the gays, 07:00 you know, they're the bogeyman, they're coming to get you." 07:03 Or it's the liberals saying, 07:05 "Be afraid of those rabid fundamentalists. 07:07 They're coming to get you." 07:08 You know, be very concerned when people are peddling fear 07:15 'cause the next thing they're doing 07:17 is they're reaching into your pocketbook 07:18 and they're raiding your wallet. 07:19 Well, as far as the fundraiser... 07:21 But, you know, when we talk about information, 07:23 you have to talk about the press, 07:25 the role of the press in a democratically instituted 07:28 system of government, and it's got a long history. 07:32 I don't know if you know about this, 07:34 but I've got a book that I really enjoyed 07:36 about the American Aurora. 07:38 You know about that? I don't. 07:39 It was... 07:43 Franklin's son-in-law was the editor of it. 07:45 Okay. 07:47 Was a very influential paper 07:49 in the early American experiment 07:50 and it largely was responsible for Adams, 07:55 the first president Adams, 07:57 bringing in the Alien and Sedition Act... 07:59 Oh really? 08:01 As an effort to put down what this newspaper was saying. 08:06 And it's been interesting for me to... 08:07 Attacks on the press are part of... 08:09 That's what I'm trying to bring up. 08:11 Our culture. 08:12 That the press has always had somewhat of an antagonistic 08:15 relationship to those in power and the press has always, 08:19 in spite of what we've heard now, 08:20 been a mixed bag. 08:22 We call it the fourth estate. 08:23 Right. 08:25 It is absolutely essential. 08:26 Look, our founding fathers believed that it was necessary 08:31 to have an educated populace, educated voters, 08:34 that's why originally, 08:37 you know, only landed men could vote. 08:41 They were the only ones 08:42 who felt were educated enough... 08:44 And there's a half truth in it. 08:45 And responsible enough to exercise the vote. 08:48 There's a half truth in that. 08:49 If without a... 08:51 If people are not informed, 08:52 then votes can skew towards despotism very easily. 08:56 Sure. 08:57 So it's very important to have people educated. 09:00 It's very important for us to educate ourselves 09:03 and to exercise our rights as citizens to vote. 09:06 Even... 09:07 You know, we think so often, "Well, my vote doesn't count." 09:09 I live in California, I know that my vote for president 09:12 doesn't count because, you know... 09:15 But in the aggregate it does because... 09:16 That's right. 09:18 The US has a very low voting rate 09:20 and I sniffed abetted Australia where I grew up. 09:23 Within Australia, everybody votes. 09:25 It's required. 09:26 The penalty's not very high, 09:27 it's like less than a speeding ticket, 09:30 but it tends to make everybody vote 09:32 so you get a reflective decision 09:35 of the whole population. 09:36 It's not true in the US... 09:37 No. 09:39 It's a distinct minority, you put someone in the office. 09:40 Well, I remember, you know, George Carlin, you know, 09:42 the comedian, you know, saying, "Don't blame me. 09:45 I didn't vote." 09:46 Well, no, you are to blame if you didn't vote. 09:49 And I'm going to put myself into it now 09:50 but as to make another point. 09:52 As I mentioned in Australia, you are required to vote, 09:55 but there's long been a religious exemption, 09:58 and I used to get the fine notice, 09:59 and I would just rather have religious principles 10:02 why I didn't vote and they dismissed it. 10:05 So it's not a despotism in that sense, 10:07 but I like the idea 10:09 of requiring full participation. 10:11 Well, I rather think that if you are religious, 10:14 you should take your obligations to vote 10:17 for seriously. 10:19 You know, but, no, what my point is, look, 10:21 a free press is absolutely essential to... 10:24 I believe so. 10:25 To a free and democratic society. 10:28 We've got to have a free press... 10:29 And it's not necessary that the press be always honest 10:34 or nonpartisan. 10:35 As long as you've got a waterfront of press opinions, 10:39 then knowledgeable reading people can read this 10:43 and make up their mind. 10:44 Look. 10:45 But at the moment, the idea is being promulgated that that 10:49 if they're presenting fake news, which, 10:51 you know, you can argue that, 10:53 they're not allowed in our society. 10:54 I mean, the idea that the press should only say what the powers 10:57 that be like, that again that leads you to a bad point. 11:00 I'm going to give you a definition of fake news. 11:03 Fake news is anybody's story or perspective... 11:07 That you don't agree with. That you don't agree with. 11:09 It's fake news. 11:10 Come on. 11:12 But I'll throw in something else 11:13 that I've observed and I think it's very bad. 11:16 The whole western economy has shifted in recent years 11:19 with the different economic collapses and so on. 11:22 You know, I edited a magazine, print is in trouble. 11:25 Right. 11:26 Not Liberty I hope 11:28 because it's a targeted magazine 11:29 toward certain people that 11:31 they're not going to see it otherwise it's given to them, 11:33 to the legislators and thought leaders and so on. 11:36 But the whole media apparatus is suffering, 11:40 whether it's print, you know, 11:42 people don't read like they used to, 11:44 and if it's television, 11:45 you know, it's the Internet or some other way, 11:48 they don't necessarily watch formal network TV anymore 11:51 and their budgets are dropping like a stone and the... 11:57 What's one of the... What's that agency with... 11:59 Christian Science Monitor. 12:00 Right, gone. 12:02 That used to be one of the biggest news outlets, 12:04 their news service. 12:06 And I've noticed all of them are going down to the point 12:08 where they basically just bucket brigade 12:11 what they've given by the authorities. 12:12 You and I go to different government events 12:14 and there's always a handout at the door in Washington 12:18 and I get that handout 12:19 and I can guarantee the next day I read 12:21 in the newspaper report of that event 12:22 and it's word for word what they've given. 12:26 So we don't have investigative journalism like we used to, 12:29 we don't have 12:30 the tough questions being asked. 12:32 This is the great irony. 12:33 If there's anything fake about the news, 12:35 that's what the powerbrokers want everyone else to know, 12:38 it's just superficial simple stuff. 12:41 Well... 12:43 I'd rather go back to where the press is worrying, 12:44 and troubling, and going and asking, 12:49 you know, the hired help in the wealthy men's home. 12:52 What's going on here? 12:54 Sounds like the National Enquirer, 12:55 but that's another story. 12:57 Well, you know, I do think that 13:00 investigative journalism has suffered, 13:02 but I think there's some wonderful 13:04 investigative journalism that's still being done. 13:07 Some, but the phenomenon has shifted. 13:09 I'm talking about in the aggregate. 13:11 There's always particular exceptions. 13:13 You know, but we in America have another 13:16 very basic problem here, Lincoln, 13:18 which is that we have virtually no memory. 13:21 We have no historical memory. 13:23 We are the new world and everything is new 13:26 and everything is grand. 13:28 Working back to the education system. 13:29 You know, and so our ability to put things in context 13:34 and to see what's happening in context... 13:37 You know, I have tried to instill in my kids, 13:39 if you want to... 13:42 If you want to be part of shaping the nation, 13:47 shaping the future, 13:49 you have to have a grasp of history because otherwise, 13:52 you're just reacting and you don't have a context 13:57 to be deliberate about 13:58 where are we going 14:00 and how do we understand modern society. 14:04 And you've heard me in full cry 14:06 even when we're talking about religious history 14:09 and the origins of religious liberty 14:11 and Protestantism and so on. 14:15 When you learn US history for that, 14:17 it starts with the Mayflower pilgrims 14:19 and there's nothing before. 14:21 You have to know antecedents to understand the present. 14:23 So I agree with you absolutely. 14:26 We need to take a break now. 14:27 But we'll be back shortly to continue 14:29 this interesting discussion 14:31 of what role the press plays and could play 14:35 and should play in our freedoms. |
Revised 2018-12-06