Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI180409B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider,
00:07 before the break, Carmela, 00:10 you've given a wonderful vision statement 00:13 from the point of view of your magazine, 00:17 but you know we're not there yet, are we? 00:20 We've got a big challenge ahead of us, 00:22 it's a big world and so much of religious liberty and message, 00:28 you know, it has to by definition 00:29 deal with close at hand, but I'm impressed 00:32 when I look at Message Magazine, 00:34 how broader its scope is that 00:36 when it was first envisaged, wasn't it? 00:39 Well, I believe... 00:40 It dealt with I think a particular need 00:42 and a very particular target audience 00:46 but there's a lot in message now. 00:49 I... 00:50 In fact, I should give you a medal on this, 00:54 so you might wear it as a medal, 00:55 but I think in many ways Message 00:57 has got more utilitarian general coverage 01:00 sometimes than the signs or magazine 01:03 that our church has printed to reach out 01:05 to the general public for a long time. 01:06 Wow! You're blowing me away. 01:10 Well, it's real world stuff. 01:12 Praise God, because that is something 01:13 that we want to make sure 01:15 that we're dealing with the real world. 01:17 And for us, for many people I think they take for granted, 01:20 especially, in people who grew up 01:24 as a Seventh-day Adventists as I did, 01:26 things such as health and vegetarianism, 01:30 they take it for granted, but as I'm looking now 01:33 and I'm seeing people incorporate a vegan 01:36 or completely plant-based lifestyle. 01:39 And I've seen people do this, these have real world effects, 01:43 especially when people, so many people 01:45 do not have access to health care, 01:47 so many people could not pay for, 01:51 many people who are struggling with others but, you know, 01:53 you get the very prevalent health conditions 01:58 such as diabetes and obesity, 02:00 these are the things that can be addressed. 02:02 The social problems just compound, 02:03 yeah, we think it. 02:05 They can be addressed just by what you're having to eat 02:07 and your mind could be clear and your children could 02:10 do better in school, 02:11 and you can have a better night sleep, 02:13 and so these are the things. 02:14 Well, I've said it before on this program... 02:15 Yes. 02:17 And, you know, the Seventh-day Adventist church 02:18 from many years in the minds of a lot of people 02:20 that know nothing else about the church 02:22 is that it's got a health message. 02:23 Right. 02:25 And many Adventists I think have forgotten why we had it, 02:27 it wasn't to live longer, it was for a spiritual reason. 02:31 And Ellen White made the comment 02:32 that to me is mind-blowing. 02:34 She said that "The only way 02:37 that heaven has of contacting us 02:39 is through the nerve endings." 02:40 There you go. 02:42 And so that's an immediately practical reason to be 02:45 of healthy mind and therefore body, 02:48 I mean, body and therefore mind. 02:51 Your spiritual connections are at their peak. 02:53 Right, and that goes back to what we were talking 02:56 about before, the ability to read something 02:59 and to make the critical thoughts 03:02 and analysis behind what's going on, 03:04 and to be able to meditate on something and to think... 03:08 That's what we're trying to do 03:09 is make sure we put this stuff out 03:11 for one of these reasons. 03:12 Let me put the real hard question to you. 03:13 Go ahead. 03:15 You're an editor and you've read different studies 03:16 and all of the surveys show that the average 03:19 readability level of people has dropped precipitously, 03:22 some grade school level at the moment. 03:26 When you're dealing with complex and important topics, 03:29 how do we communicate that to people 03:31 whose comprehension is dropping below 03:34 or through certain threshold? 03:35 Oh, I love that. 03:37 You know, what I do is easy... 03:40 easy way, but you know, and that's the beauty 03:42 of the technology at the same time is that 03:45 we can make sure that we are not accommodating 03:49 but we're making sure that we are accessible to everyone 03:53 whose strength is not reading 03:55 and whose attention span is short. 03:58 You know, God didn't call us to be impressive intellectually, 04:02 He called us to reach people, 04:04 and so that's the way I look at it. 04:05 Thank you. 04:07 Well, you're actually ahead of my next comment, 04:08 but I'll still make it anyway, what worries me sometimes 04:14 an idea that's not directly stated 04:16 but implied to understand salvation requires 04:20 certain intellectual ability and application. 04:24 And if that's so, a lot of this world 04:27 is going to miss out. 04:29 At root it has to be a very simple idea, 04:32 but I like to think with editing 04:35 and promulgating materials, 04:37 a very simple idea still can require a systematic 04:40 and never ending explanation in its larger ramifications. 04:45 Right. 04:46 But the central idea has to be very simple 04:48 and easily understood by almost anyone 04:50 as long as it's correctly and clearly stated. 04:55 Yeah, and that's part of our ongoing mission 05:00 to make sure that we are more and more accessible to people 05:03 whose strength is not reading and whose strength 05:06 is not attention in long form. 05:11 You know, reception of that kind of thing 05:13 so it's important... 05:15 So back to what I stated in the earlier program. 05:18 You probably have ideas on it too but, you know, 05:21 even I belong to 05:22 the Seventh-day Adventist Church, 05:24 I'm a fourth generation, 05:25 so whole lot of nuance then my close circle. 05:30 I've lived most of my life in the US, 05:32 I came from Australia but I know the US pretty well. 05:36 And it seems to me that both our church, 05:38 by definition many other churches 05:40 and the country at large is suffering from a rapid 05:44 and recent decline in people's comprehension 05:48 of the basics that make up both the church 05:51 and democratic state. 05:54 And I don't see how either can really survive long 05:58 with gross ignorance. 06:00 No, and they cannot. 06:02 The US once survived... 06:04 Just even the Supreme Court 06:05 continue to do a pretty good job, 06:07 they've made a few bloopers, 06:08 but they give long and considered legal evaluation 06:12 but so what if the people have forgotten, 06:16 we are not to be paralleled with Rome all the time, 06:18 but it seems to me that people of Rome 06:20 got mixed up in their entertainments. 06:23 And the Senate became riven with strife and self interests, 06:29 and pretty soon they had emperors, and dictators, 06:32 and madmen ruling them. 06:34 And the church the same, pretty soon you can have 06:36 mad prophets leading you, 06:39 or worst bureaucratic functionaries. 06:42 Right, and all because either we didn't maintain 06:46 that knowledge or we just didn't dig hard enough 06:51 to know what those principles were. 06:52 Well, you remind me of a situation I had once, 06:55 I was teaching a law class, a law criminal procedure 06:59 kind of class once, and I had in my class of people... 07:05 It was not a law school class but in college level 07:09 and I had one of the campus security people 07:12 that were there, and we're talking about 07:13 when is it right to stop someone, 07:15 when is it right to confront someone with deadly force. 07:19 And I remember one of the test papers came back 07:22 from the security guard 07:23 that it is okay to shoot a shoplifter. 07:25 You know, it's okay to shoot, you know, 07:27 and I mean somebody that you think 07:29 of doing it is okay to do it. 07:30 And I think at a basic level there used to be a time 07:35 when everybody had a sense of what our freedoms required 07:40 and what they gave and you had a, 07:41 you knew who you were and what you could say, 07:45 these are my rights, 07:47 and this is that you can't go beyond this. 07:49 But when we let go of those, there is just grose ignorance 07:52 and grose miscarriages of justice. 07:55 You know, it works on many, many levels 07:57 and you're getting really putting up one. 08:00 Yeah. 08:02 I mean the police are guilty of that even without malice, 08:04 they're losing a proportion, now they're on apprehending. 08:06 Well, that's just an example, yes. 08:07 But where I heard something that may be about 08:12 blood running cold and it's gotten worse 08:14 during the election of 2000. 08:16 I heard over and over again, 08:19 if the majority wants something it goes. 08:21 Right. 08:23 When the whole basis of religious liberty 08:24 is protecting the minority against the majority 08:27 and we are not a majoritarian system. 08:30 In fact in the narrowest sense, the United States 08:32 is not a democracy, it's a democratic system, 08:37 it's a representative republic. 08:39 Republic means that the path derives from the people, 08:42 but the structure is representative. 08:45 People choose someone to represent them 08:47 in the governing system, but, you know, 08:50 if the 300 million people want something 08:53 and if it's against the principles 08:55 that the constitution and the country is founded on, 08:58 it's still not going to happen. 08:59 Right, right. 09:01 And I think that... 09:02 People have lost sight of that. 09:03 And to me that's the straight and narrow. 09:07 Well, not narrow the straight and wide road to despotism. 09:11 Oh, absolutely, and I think that's the beauty on which we, 09:14 this country was founded, call it what you like, 09:18 there was a carve out, 09:20 there was a carve out for people, 09:22 the religious minorities, the people who were strangers 09:25 on the shores, there's a carve out 09:27 so that there was not the tyranny of the majority. 09:31 There was an ability to make sure 09:33 that you don't just get out voted 09:36 or marginalized or pushed aside, 09:38 you know, very well everyone. 09:39 I know, very well said. 09:41 And you know I try to say too that religious liberty 09:43 does not mean that I like your religion 09:46 or your moral viewpoint, but I should be willing 09:49 to defend your right to hold that to the death. 09:51 Absolutely. 09:52 If you hold that, religious liberty is safe. 09:54 Absolutely, and I think that's one of those things 09:57 where we all have to learn how to blend what it is, 10:02 my interest, against your interest, 10:05 how do we continue to live and strive together 10:08 without me overcoming or overpowering you 10:12 and not being or succumbing to your views. 10:16 And today unfortunately, this is something that person 10:19 with the biggest mouth or the best social media 10:22 gets to rule the day. 10:24 That's not the way it's supposed to be. 10:29 Giving a message, years ago when my father died 10:33 and while he was suffering in hospital, 10:36 he said that he had a dream and in the middle of the night 10:39 he got up, got out of his bed 10:41 and went to a nearby Indian church 10:43 and he said to them, "I'm gravely ill, 10:46 I cannot stay but I have a message to give to you." 10:49 He says, "It's four words, trust in the Lord." 10:54 Message Magazine I think is as succinct as that. 10:58 It began with a message of trust and compassion 11:02 for a certain subgroup of the American experience 11:06 and it still caters to minorities, 11:09 but I think its message as the general messages 11:12 of salvation is broadened to accomplish 11:16 or to encompass a great many of the daily challenges 11:20 that we all face, and that challenge, 11:23 that particular challenge must include 11:26 a challenge of religious liberty. 11:29 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2018-11-12