Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI180409A
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00:27 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:28 This is a program bringing you religious liberty news, 00:33 and evaluation and discussion 00:35 on things that are happening really all around the world 00:38 but very often starting in the United States. 00:41 My name is Lincoln Steed, Editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:44 And my guest on this program is Carmela Monk Crawford, 00:49 Editor of Message magazine. 00:52 And I started a filming sequence with you recently 00:55 by talking about Message. 00:57 Yes. But I like... 00:58 I love that name, 01:00 what is the message of the Message? 01:02 Oh, my goodness. 01:04 The message for us, 01:05 the message that we want to relate to people, 01:08 the three Rs, 01:09 Redemption, Relationship, and Readiness. 01:13 That is the message that we want to let people know 01:16 that number one, 01:18 you've been bought with a price, 01:20 the value that each individual that we know has 01:25 is something that not only does God recognize 01:28 but we recognize. 01:30 That's very good. Yes. 01:31 I like that summary, because I was hoping, 01:33 the name just makes it, 01:34 it's outward reaching to tell something to the people 01:37 and to share something of great value. 01:41 Liberty is more... 01:43 To me it sounds more like doing and going, 01:46 you know, it flags, it's the best in. 01:50 But in reality 01:52 I like to define it the same way. 01:56 It's got to have a spiritual redemptive element 01:59 or it's just legal, legalize. 02:01 Right, right. 02:03 And religious liberty 02:04 can very easily devour overnight. 02:06 I don't know, well, it guess down 02:07 with some of my fellow religious liberty allegiance 02:09 but I tell them, you know, 02:10 it's not about just court cases and President. 02:13 Right. 02:14 There's something big here and for Seventh-day Adventist 02:17 religious liberty always ran concurrent with our world view 02:21 and a prophetic expectation 02:23 which really is hopeful in that. 02:25 You know, we're not doomsdays like the world is about to end, 02:27 it might be but a new world is about to begin, 02:29 so it's exciting. 02:31 Yeah. 02:32 Yes, and is preserving that space, 02:34 so that we could each have that relationship 02:37 and realize the redemption 02:39 and realize it as put to us, or given to us. 02:43 Absolutely. So... 02:44 And, you know, at our church, I think is, 02:47 doing good things in many areas 02:48 but it's a good thing to remind ourselves 02:51 about this root reason for doing things like, 02:54 or for producing things like 02:56 Message and Liberty and other programs, 02:59 although you're an editor too. 03:00 To me, magazines and editing 03:03 and the promulgation of the materials 03:05 is central to what we're about. 03:07 I'm not quite on this twitter and these other things, 03:11 obviously that's making the world shake on its axis 03:14 or shake on its foundations. 03:17 But I think there's a lot of superficiality 03:20 in some of this electronic communication, 03:22 but to have this meaty little package 03:26 given to you, 03:27 there could be a lot rolled up in that, right? 03:29 You're speaking my language, this is only an editor, 03:33 we can sit here and talk about that all day long, 03:35 because you're right, people wonder 03:38 about the relevance of the vehicle. 03:41 I believe the message is what's on the vehicle 03:45 that's very relevant 03:46 but I also believe the vehicle in this case. 03:49 I believe God preserved Liberty and Message for a reason, 03:54 even in the light of the publishing industry 03:57 and all the changes that have made 03:58 and the fact that everybody is a publisher 04:01 in his or her own right 04:03 when they take to their thumbs on twitter 04:05 or they are on social media, 04:07 everybody is a publisher in themselves. 04:10 Right, you know, one of discussion... 04:11 We had many discussions 04:13 and your part of the saying once we are... 04:15 I think those that don't have as much respect 04:17 for what made our church 04:19 and indeed what made the reformation, 04:21 it was printing and publishing and promulgation of pamphlets 04:24 and all the rest, they got Luther on the map. 04:27 He wouldn't have got the first place 04:29 but for the printed material of what went around. 04:31 But I listen to people 04:34 that are very animate with the new techniques 04:36 and goodness knows, there's great possibilities, 04:39 but they forget, 04:40 that's really reverting to what always has been here, 04:43 the greatest promulgation of ideas is word of mouth, 04:48 you can't stop that. 04:49 But since printing began, 04:53 it's a way to put this word of mouth message down 04:58 in a systematic well organized, well presented fashion, 05:02 and I know when you let it, 05:03 I am sure you do the same as I do. 05:05 I look at what articles guys would work, 05:07 because sometimes the whole is greater than the individual. 05:10 Yes, than the powers. Yes, absolutely. 05:12 Because this can set you up for that other article 05:15 where an isolation, 05:17 may be they wouldn't even see why should I read that, 05:18 no interest, but it could lead to it. 05:20 You know, there are many times 05:21 when I will read through the magazine, 05:24 and proofs and everything 05:25 and it's at the end that I'm saying, 05:27 and I can't say 05:28 that there are many magazines or publications 05:30 that I will read all the way through, 05:32 but because of what we do 05:34 by the time you get to the end of it, 05:36 you realize there was a message in this, 05:39 there is something that is important 05:40 and as you said 05:41 the new forms 05:43 of communication sort of revert back 05:45 to what we've often had, 05:47 but what still holds true for our printed materials 05:51 is that they make a case, 05:53 a systematic case that works differently physiologically 05:57 between your fingers and your head, 05:59 that is more persuasive, 06:02 it leads to better retention, 06:05 and the critical analysis 06:07 that's involved in reading the material, 06:11 really it works on your... 06:12 I love the way you are saying this. 06:13 You're speaking to the... 06:15 Yeah, I know, 06:16 we're on the same wavelength in a lot of, 06:18 maybe a dying breed but I don't think so, 06:20 that's why I say I believe God preserved us. 06:23 No, it's... 06:24 We're not a dying breed, 06:26 but the idea is being challenged. 06:27 Right. 06:29 And this doesn't prove the point 06:30 but it's an interesting anecdote. 06:31 I can remember when I was young at the onset of computers 06:36 and computer memory and so on, 06:39 the paperless office was coming. 06:41 I don't know, 06:43 there's more paper floating around than ever before. 06:44 Yes. 06:46 Even when you have the files and all the rest, 06:48 this is all will we need to run it and see it, 06:51 put your hand on it, visualize it... 06:54 Underline it and highlight it. 06:56 No, I don't see any evidence whatsoever, 07:00 the reading and the visual representation, 07:03 whether it used to be on stone tablets 07:05 or clay tablets, 07:07 that's not going away but the patterns are shifting. 07:09 Yes. 07:11 The worst thing that I say 07:12 and we can't change anything by discussion here, 07:15 but I do think literacy or at least practical literacy 07:18 is dropping in the western world. 07:20 Absolutely. 07:21 And I don't know how we deal with that, 07:22 because online they're not going to get it 07:25 if they want to read more than a paragraph 07:27 or comprehend more than a paragraph at a time. 07:29 Right, and the... 07:30 Like we are saying the critical analysis 07:32 that's necessary to process this information, 07:35 it goes to the very heart of the issue with Facebook, 07:40 and our elections, and everything, 07:42 you know, you have to read behind the headlines, 07:45 you have to read and you have to question, 07:47 who would say this 07:49 and what's behind why they will say this, 07:51 and who has a stake in this and an interest in this. 07:53 These are all tools that not only keep our country, 07:57 our society going, 07:58 but it is crucial to who you are, 08:02 is you understand your role and your... 08:06 That spiritual part of you. 08:07 You have to, you know, it's a deeper level, 08:09 it's not a circus thing. 08:10 And then the other thing of this is none of bad stuff, 08:13 but people need to know this. 08:16 Our new president has gained a lot of traction 08:20 by talking about fake news. 08:24 There is and there always has been fake news, 08:27 but what I think it's increasing 08:29 is suspicion of people to information, 08:33 no matter where they get it 08:34 and it's worth remembering that magazines in particular, 08:37 this is we are talking about magazines 08:39 sort of been around a long time, 08:41 certainly should have some credibility 08:43 and reliability for information. 08:45 When you go on the internet, 08:47 they talk about information being spread 08:49 more information than before. 08:50 It's on the internet, it's not in people's heads, 08:52 but you go there 08:54 and here is a cornucopia of information, 08:56 and it ranges from the overly intellectual 09:00 for the Mensa crowd to nonsense who can... 09:05 There is not a human being on the planet 09:07 that has the mental ability all the time 09:10 to digest all of that 09:11 and turn it into something reliable. 09:13 So like it or not we have to rely on intermediaries. 09:16 Yes. And editors are a key. 09:18 Yes. 09:20 And I keep reminding myself that our movement, 09:22 the Seventh-day Adventist movement 09:23 followed on from the Millerite, Bible studies 09:26 and expectation of the imminent return of Christ, 09:30 but this movement is written 09:31 on the backs of publications and editors. 09:34 Yes. 09:35 They weren't just within the system, 09:38 they were the system. 09:40 Right, and challenging problems all along the way, 09:44 and as we've been talking, 09:45 as I've come to be here with you at this time 09:48 we're talking, those early editors, 09:52 it was not only a printed responsibility 09:56 they were also commenting 09:58 on the social problems of the time 10:01 and matching that, 10:03 looking at it against prophecy in their biblical understanding 10:07 and putting it out there for people to read. 10:09 What a beautiful thing, 10:12 but you don't see that long form analysis any more 10:15 of both what's happening in society 10:19 and just, you know, as I read the word 10:22 and I try to compare and I try to look 10:24 and I try to go behind the scenes, 10:26 you don't see that anymore. 10:27 No, well, because the expectation of editors 10:30 and the reliance on them is gone. 10:33 An editor is not as they used to come by 10:37 when I worked at the publishing house, 10:38 I would see some of us proofreading 10:41 or copy editing, 10:42 oh, doing that all day, how horrible, you know. 10:45 I've heard people say that, 10:46 but they think that's what an editor does, 10:48 just line editing, that is the end of the game, 10:51 perhaps before you assemble to think, 10:53 but an editor brings critical judgment, 10:56 is the ideas person, 10:58 setting the direction of the spine. 10:59 No accident, I'm going to invoke crazy figure, 11:02 but it's no accident 11:04 that Mussolini became the dictator of Italy, 11:06 he was a newspaper editor. 11:08 A newspaper... That was his... 11:09 No, and you can see it over and over again. 11:12 Adolf Hitler, Mine Kamf, putting... 11:16 I could make it good case 11:17 that he never would have gone anywhere 11:18 as any individual leader. 11:20 I think Nazism was inevitable, something as malignant as that, 11:24 but he is the leader. 11:25 No, it was his book and his writings 11:27 that catapulted him to people's... 11:30 Yeah, you have to watch the people who control... 11:32 And those were bad ideas 11:33 but good ideas sometimes are harder to sell, 11:36 but they should have a greater influence 11:37 in the long run. 11:39 Yeah, we have to watch 11:40 who is behind the communication for sure, 11:42 and we have to be involved 11:44 and actively part of what's going on, 11:48 what has been said in... 11:49 But how we change society into reading, I don't know, 11:52 I really don't know that. 11:55 The Bible says that 11:56 at the end of time, it was in Daniel, 11:57 but he's talking about the end of time, 11:59 knowledge shall be increased and men will run to and fro. 12:03 You know that sounds like a... 12:05 The second half sounds more like ADHD. 12:08 Let us not go to ADHD. 12:10 There's knowledge around 12:12 but you're running, can't settle. 12:13 Running to and fro, can't get it. 12:14 And although the Bible does say, 12:16 ever learning and never arriving at the truth. 12:18 Well, and we are inundated with a lot of information, 12:20 it is hard to get to that golden needle 12:23 in the haystack 12:25 which I believe that I have 12:26 and you have the responsibility of being 12:29 and I often say the watchman on the wall 12:32 watching the things, 12:33 it's not just like you said one piece at a time 12:36 and trying to discover, 12:38 you know, the copyediting problems 12:41 or a copy issues 12:42 is the overall what is on the horizon 12:45 that we should be looking at? 12:46 Well, that we're getting close to the end of the segment, 12:48 tell me from Message's point of view 12:50 what is coming up, 12:52 it's not just one of your, two of your articles, 12:54 where do you think the challenge lies 12:56 and you can broaden it beyond religious liberty. 12:58 What is on the horizon? 13:00 What... where are you moving? 13:02 What's the burning topics of the day? 13:05 Conscience is always a big deal for us. 13:07 I believe that conscience, 13:09 how you exercise your conscience, 13:13 what you... 13:15 When you're going to exercise your conscience, 13:17 how you work in a society. 13:21 Last year we talked about Colin Kaepernick 13:24 who is being so, not just marginalized 13:27 but somehow demonized for his view, 13:32 and we're talking in his protest 13:35 of a symbolic national anthem. 13:38 And our quest is to figure out 13:41 what is it that is worth fighting for, 13:44 how do I make my case, 13:46 how do I practice in conscience 13:50 knowing what it is that God has called me to do, 13:53 that is always a big issue, 13:55 how do I continue to exercise my conscience. 13:57 I knew when I put you on the spot 13:59 that you would give a very succinct analysis 14:03 where you're heading with Message Magazine. 14:05 And I hope one day to be able to do that with Liberty. 14:10 But for now we multiply words 14:13 and if you stay with us after a short break, 14:15 we'll be back to continue the discussion 14:18 of how we apply these powerful ideas 14:21 that are embodied in this case, 14:23 in Message Magazine and Liberty Magazine. |
Revised 2018-11-12