Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is a program bringing
you religious liberty news,
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and evaluation and discussion
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on things that are happening
really all around the world
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but very often
starting in the United States.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
Editor of Liberty Magazine.
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And my guest on this program
is Carmela Monk Crawford,
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Editor of Message magazine.
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And I started a filming
sequence with you recently
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by talking about Message.
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Yes. But I like...
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I love that name,
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what is the
message of the Message?
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Oh, my goodness.
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The message for us,
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the message that we
want to relate to people,
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the three Rs,
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Redemption,
Relationship, and Readiness.
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That is the message that
we want to let people know
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that number one,
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you've been bought with a price,
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the value that each
individual that we know has
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is something that not
only does God recognize
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but we recognize.
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That's very good. Yes.
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I like that summary,
because I was hoping,
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the name just makes it,
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it's outward reaching to
tell something to the people
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and to share
something of great value.
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Liberty is more...
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To me it sounds more
like doing and going,
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you know, it
flags, it's the best in.
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But in reality
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I like to
define it the same way.
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It's got to have a
spiritual redemptive element
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or it's just legal, legalize.
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Right, right.
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And religious liberty
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can very easily
devour overnight.
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I don't know,
well, it guess down
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with some of my fellow
religious liberty allegiance
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but I tell them, you know,
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it's not about just
court cases and President.
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Right.
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There's something big here
and for Seventh-day Adventist
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religious liberty always ran
concurrent with our world view
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and a prophetic expectation
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which really is hopeful in that.
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You know, we're not doomsdays
like the world is about to end,
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it might be but a new
world is about to begin,
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so it's exciting.
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Yeah.
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Yes, and is
preserving that space,
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so that we could each
have that relationship
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and realize the redemption
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and realize it as put
to us, or given to us.
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Absolutely. So...
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And, you know, at
our church, I think is,
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doing good things in many areas
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but it's a good
thing to remind ourselves
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about this root
reason for doing things like,
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or for producing things like
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Message and
Liberty and other programs,
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although you're an editor too.
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To me, magazines and editing
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and the
promulgation of the materials
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is central to what we're about.
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I'm not quite on this
twitter and these other things,
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obviously that's making
the world shake on its axis
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or shake on its foundations.
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But I think there's
a lot of superficiality
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in some of this
electronic communication,
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but to have this
meaty little package
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given to you,
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there could be a lot
rolled up in that, right?
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You're speaking my language,
this is only an editor,
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we can sit here and
talk about that all day long,
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because you're
right, people wonder
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about the
relevance of the vehicle.
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I believe the message
is what's on the vehicle
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that's very relevant
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but I also believe
the vehicle in this case.
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I believe God preserved Liberty
and Message for a reason,
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even in the light of
the publishing industry
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and all the
changes that have made
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and the fact that
everybody is a publisher
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in his or her own right
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when they take to
their thumbs on twitter
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or they are on social media,
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everybody is a
publisher in themselves.
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Right, you know,
one of discussion...
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We had many discussions
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and your part of the
saying once we are...
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I think those that
don't have as much respect
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for what made our church
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and indeed what
made the reformation,
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it was printing and publishing
and promulgation of pamphlets
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and all the rest,
they got Luther on the map.
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He wouldn't have
got the first place
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but for the printed
material of what went around.
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But I listen to people
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that are very animate
with the new techniques
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and goodness knows,
there's great possibilities,
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but they forget,
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that's really reverting
to what always has been here,
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the greatest promulgation
of ideas is word of mouth,
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you can't stop that.
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But since printing began,
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it's a way to put this
word of mouth message down
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in a systematic well organized,
well presented fashion,
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and I know when you let it,
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I am sure you do
the same as I do.
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I look at what
articles guys would work,
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because sometimes the whole
is greater than the individual.
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Yes, than the
powers. Yes, absolutely.
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Because this can set you
up for that other article
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where an isolation,
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may be they wouldn't even
see why should I read that,
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no interest, but
it could lead to it.
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You know, there are many times
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when I will read
through the magazine,
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and proofs and everything
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and it's at the
end that I'm saying,
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and I can't say
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that there are many
magazines or publications
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that I will read
all the way through,
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but because of what we do
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by the time you
get to the end of it,
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you realize there
was a message in this,
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there is
something that is important
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and as you said
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the new forms
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of communication
sort of revert back
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to what we've often had,
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but what still holds
true for our printed materials
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is that they make a case,
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a systematic case that works
differently physiologically
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between your
fingers and your head,
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that is more persuasive,
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it leads to better retention,
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and the critical analysis
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that's involved in
reading the material,
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really it works on your...
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I love the way
you are saying this.
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You're speaking to the...
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Yeah, I know,
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we're on the same
wavelength in a lot of,
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maybe a dying breed
but I don't think so,
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that's why I say I
believe God preserved us.
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No, it's...
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We're not a dying breed,
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but the idea is
being challenged.
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Right.
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And this doesn't prove the point
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but it's an
interesting anecdote.
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I can remember when I was
young at the onset of computers
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and computer memory and so on,
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the paperless office was coming.
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I don't know,
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there's more paper floating
around than ever before.
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Yes.
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Even when you have the
files and all the rest,
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this is all will we
need to run it and see it,
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put your hand on
it, visualize it...
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Underline it and highlight it.
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No, I don't see any
evidence whatsoever,
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the reading and the
visual representation,
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whether it used to
be on stone tablets
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or clay tablets,
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that's not going away but
the patterns are shifting.
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Yes.
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The worst thing that I say
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and we can't change
anything by discussion here,
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but I do think literacy or
at least practical literacy
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is dropping in
the western world.
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Absolutely.
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And I don't know
how we deal with that,
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because online
they're not going to get it
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if they want to read
more than a paragraph
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or comprehend more
than a paragraph at a time.
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Right, and the...
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Like we are saying
the critical analysis
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that's necessary to
process this information,
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it goes to the very heart
of the issue with Facebook,
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and our
elections, and everything,
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you know, you have to
read behind the headlines,
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you have to read and
you have to question,
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who would say this
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and what's behind
why they will say this,
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and who has a stake in
this and an interest in this.
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These are all tools that
not only keep our country,
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our society going,
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but it is
crucial to who you are,
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is you understand
your role and your...
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That spiritual part of you.
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You have to, you
know, it's a deeper level,
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it's not a circus thing.
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And then the other thing
of this is none of bad stuff,
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but people need to know this.
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Our new president has
gained a lot of traction
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by talking about fake news.
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There is and there
always has been fake news,
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but what I think it's increasing
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is suspicion of
people to information,
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no matter where they get it
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and it's worth remembering
that magazines in particular,
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this is we are
talking about magazines
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sort of been around a long time,
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certainly should
have some credibility
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and reliability for information.
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When you go on the internet,
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they talk about
information being spread
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more information than before.
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It's on the internet,
it's not in people's heads,
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but you go there
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and here is a
cornucopia of information,
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and it ranges from
the overly intellectual
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for the Mensa crowd
to nonsense who can...
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There is not a
human being on the planet
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that has the mental
ability all the time
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to digest all of that
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and turn it into
something reliable.
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So like it or not we have
to rely on intermediaries.
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Yes. And editors are a key.
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Yes.
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And I keep reminding
myself that our movement,
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the Seventh-day
Adventist movement
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followed on from the
Millerite, Bible studies
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and expectation of the
imminent return of Christ,
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but this movement is written
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on the backs of
publications and editors.
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Yes.
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They weren't just
within the system,
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they were the system.
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Right, and challenging
problems all along the way,
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and as we've been talking,
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as I've come to be
here with you at this time
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we're talking,
those early editors,
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it was not only a
printed responsibility
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they were also commenting
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on the social
problems of the time
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and matching that,
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looking at it against prophecy
in their biblical understanding
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and putting it out
there for people to read.
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What a beautiful thing,
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but you don't see that
long form analysis any more
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of both what's
happening in society
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and just, you
know, as I read the word
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and I try to
compare and I try to look
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and I try to go
behind the scenes,
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you don't see that anymore.
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No, well, because the
expectation of editors
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and the
reliance on them is gone.
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An editor is not as
they used to come by
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when I worked at
the publishing house,
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I would see some
of us proofreading
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or copy editing,
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oh, doing that all
day, how horrible, you know.
00:10:42.87\00:10:45.47
I've heard people say that,
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but they think
that's what an editor does,
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just line editing,
that is the end of the game,
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perhaps before
you assemble to think,
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but an editor
brings critical judgment,
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is the ideas person,
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setting the
direction of the spine.
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No accident, I'm going
to invoke crazy figure,
00:10:59.69\00:11:02.76
but it's no accident
00:11:02.79\00:11:04.13
that Mussolini became
the dictator of Italy,
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he was a newspaper editor.
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A newspaper... That was his...
00:11:08.36\00:11:09.93
No, and you can see
it over and over again.
00:11:09.96\00:11:12.20
Adolf Hitler,
Mine Kamf, putting...
00:11:12.23\00:11:15.97
I could make it good case
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that he never
would have gone anywhere
00:11:17.37\00:11:18.71
as any individual leader.
00:11:18.74\00:11:20.08
I think Nazism was inevitable,
something as malignant as that,
00:11:20.11\00:11:24.28
but he is the leader.
00:11:24.31\00:11:25.65
No, it was his
book and his writings
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that catapulted
him to people's...
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Yeah, you have to watch
the people who control...
00:11:30.95\00:11:32.39
And those were bad ideas
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but good ideas
sometimes are harder to sell,
00:11:33.79\00:11:36.46
but they should
have a greater influence
00:11:36.49\00:11:37.83
in the long run.
00:11:37.86\00:11:39.19
Yeah, we have to watch
00:11:39.23\00:11:40.56
who is behind the
communication for sure,
00:11:40.60\00:11:42.86
and we have to be involved
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and actively part
of what's going on,
00:11:44.47\00:11:48.27
what has been said in...
00:11:48.30\00:11:49.80
But how we change society
into reading, I don't know,
00:11:49.84\00:11:52.94
I really don't know that.
00:11:52.97\00:11:55.04
The Bible says that
00:11:55.08\00:11:56.41
at the end of
time, it was in Daniel,
00:11:56.44\00:11:57.78
but he's talking
about the end of time,
00:11:57.81\00:11:59.15
knowledge shall be increased
and men will run to and fro.
00:11:59.18\00:12:02.98
You know that sounds like a...
00:12:03.02\00:12:05.05
The second half
sounds more like ADHD.
00:12:05.09\00:12:08.79
Let us not go to ADHD.
00:12:08.82\00:12:10.76
There's knowledge around
00:12:10.79\00:12:12.13
but you're
running, can't settle.
00:12:12.16\00:12:13.50
Running to and
fro, can't get it.
00:12:13.53\00:12:14.86
And although the Bible does say,
00:12:14.90\00:12:16.23
ever learning and
never arriving at the truth.
00:12:16.26\00:12:18.07
Well, and we are inundated
with a lot of information,
00:12:18.10\00:12:20.57
it is hard to get
to that golden needle
00:12:20.60\00:12:23.64
in the haystack
00:12:23.67\00:12:25.07
which I believe that I have
00:12:25.11\00:12:26.61
and you have the
responsibility of being
00:12:26.64\00:12:29.54
and I often say the
watchman on the wall
00:12:29.58\00:12:32.31
watching the things,
00:12:32.35\00:12:33.68
it's not just like you
said one piece at a time
00:12:33.72\00:12:36.79
and trying to discover,
00:12:36.82\00:12:38.35
you know, the
copyediting problems
00:12:38.39\00:12:41.09
or a copy issues
00:12:41.12\00:12:42.46
is the overall
what is on the horizon
00:12:42.49\00:12:45.09
that we should be looking at?
00:12:45.13\00:12:46.86
Well, that we're getting
close to the end of the segment,
00:12:46.90\00:12:48.90
tell me from
Message's point of view
00:12:48.93\00:12:50.67
what is coming up,
00:12:50.70\00:12:52.37
it's not just one of
your, two of your articles,
00:12:52.40\00:12:54.60
where do you
think the challenge lies
00:12:54.64\00:12:56.81
and you can broaden it
beyond religious liberty.
00:12:56.84\00:12:58.77
What is on the horizon?
00:12:58.81\00:13:00.74
What... where are you moving?
00:13:00.78\00:13:02.11
What's the
burning topics of the day?
00:13:02.14\00:13:05.51
Conscience is
always a big deal for us.
00:13:05.55\00:13:07.72
I believe that conscience,
00:13:07.75\00:13:09.58
how you
exercise your conscience,
00:13:09.62\00:13:12.99
what you...
00:13:13.02\00:13:15.22
When you're going to
exercise your conscience,
00:13:15.26\00:13:17.83
how you work in a society.
00:13:17.86\00:13:21.20
Last year we talked
about Colin Kaepernick
00:13:21.23\00:13:24.17
who is being so,
not just marginalized
00:13:24.20\00:13:27.90
but somehow
demonized for his view,
00:13:27.94\00:13:32.77
and we're talking in his protest
00:13:32.81\00:13:35.28
of a symbolic national anthem.
00:13:35.31\00:13:38.25
And our quest is to figure out
00:13:38.28\00:13:41.48
what is it that is
worth fighting for,
00:13:41.52\00:13:44.95
how do I make my case,
00:13:44.99\00:13:46.82
how do I practice in conscience
00:13:46.86\00:13:50.73
knowing what it is that
God has called me to do,
00:13:50.76\00:13:53.50
that is always a big issue,
00:13:53.53\00:13:54.96
how do I continue to
exercise my conscience.
00:13:55.00\00:13:57.63
I knew when I
put you on the spot
00:13:57.67\00:13:59.37
that you would give a
very succinct analysis
00:13:59.40\00:14:03.20
where you're heading
with Message Magazine.
00:14:03.24\00:14:05.54
And I hope one day to be
able to do that with Liberty.
00:14:05.57\00:14:10.85
But for now we multiply words
00:14:10.88\00:14:13.42
and if you stay with
us after a short break,
00:14:13.45\00:14:15.55
we'll be back to
continue the discussion
00:14:15.58\00:14:18.09
of how we apply
these powerful ideas
00:14:18.12\00:14:21.49
that are embodied in this case,
00:14:21.52\00:14:23.22
in Message Magazine
and Liberty Magazine.
00:14:23.26\00:14:25.53