Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI180407B
|
00:06 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:08 Before the break, 00:10 I was probably making your head spin 00:13 with the different connection I was trying to make. 00:16 But all starting from 00:18 what we're living through in the US 00:19 and unprecedented alliance of a number of religious leaders 00:23 with the aims and policies of an administration 00:28 and political party. 00:29 That's always dangerous, isn't it? 00:30 It's always dangerous. 00:32 And we see that in the establishment 00:36 in the opening of the new embassy in Jerusalem. 00:38 Right. 00:39 I was wanting to get on to that. 00:40 And we see the backing and the risk though, 00:44 the complete confidence that this is going to play out 00:49 the way we wanted to play out for certain groups 00:52 which is a scary prospect for me. 00:56 This was my point all along is that 00:58 even if this is something that you hold close, 01:02 this is something that you believe 01:03 needs to happen for the end of the world 01:05 which I don't ascribe to that point of view 01:08 but there are many people who believe that. 01:11 There has to be something within your heart that says, 01:14 "When you mow down 50 people with gun fire on the same day, 01:20 is this the way that we want this to go? 01:23 When we injure more than 200 people in the opening 01:27 in this glorious opening of this embassy, 01:32 is this really where we're being led? 01:36 Well, and even to say it, 01:38 you're risking people coming at you, 01:41 because that's not supportive say of Israel. 01:44 I know that. 01:45 But your point is correct because by casting 01:49 the lot of the church in with the political goal, 01:52 then a moral ambiguity that happens at the same time 01:56 can't be spoken out 01:57 because your view is that you're supporting 02:00 the embassy and the US's role 02:02 and that's inconvenient truth to borrow... 02:05 Where I'll go. 02:07 And I'll go and comment. 02:11 We should be able to speak 02:12 to the morality of whatever happens. 02:15 But we can't, it's muscling the church. 02:18 It's muscling the church. 02:19 Muscling the church and compromising the church. 02:22 I don't think it should speak at all 02:25 to whether Israel has legitimacy 02:27 or whether we have empathy toward those 02:30 that over their recent ancestors 02:33 that escape the holocaust to critique that action, 02:38 but the way it's set up, no, you dare not 02:40 because in this case, 02:42 the Palestine is far, far worse. 02:44 It's basically a global situation ethics. 02:47 Right, right. 02:48 And it is one that tests 02:50 our ideas in how far our understanding 02:55 of religious liberty and religious practice, 02:58 you know, obviously that is the worst case scenario 03:01 to have the major religions of the world 03:03 laying claim to the same territory 03:06 and the same important space. 03:10 And yes, we have to find and learn from the same 03:13 or impart the same principles. 03:15 Something is going to happen there, 03:17 and we don't know and prophecy doesn't directly speak to it. 03:21 But I'm inclined to think 03:22 it's going to become a religious safe zone with, 03:26 who know, someone 03:28 perhaps even the Roman Pontiff might set up 03:30 as the chairman of the board there. 03:33 You know, that's a prediction that you... 03:36 I don't know. 03:37 This program, I said before years ago, 03:42 we had an interview 03:43 with the head of the Palestine liberation organization 03:49 and we spoke about the agreement 03:52 between Pope John Paul II and Arafat. 03:55 They signed a contract. 03:57 And he said, "Yes, the holy father" 04:00 as he called him. 04:01 He's intermittently involved 04:03 with the disposition of Jerusalem. 04:04 It would make sense. 04:07 In fact, if I didn't have a prophetic sense and a sense of 04:09 separation of church and state, I would say, "Fine. 04:12 Make it a religiously open city and put perhaps 04:15 one of the most respected religious leaders there 04:19 to sort of preside over it." 04:21 But unfortunately, it will lead to more of the same. 04:25 But in the US at least, I just think there needs to be 04:28 a de-connection of political leaders and figures, 04:32 religious leaders from political figures. 04:35 Now someone that, I'll name him 04:37 because he's a very public figure, the lawyer with 04:41 the American Centre for Law and Justice... 04:44 In fact, I wouldn't name him 04:46 but he's well known, well secular. 04:51 I appreciated at a lot of what he did. 04:53 He stood very powerfully for some of the things 04:56 that Liberty has reported on over the years, 05:00 religious prejudice cases and free exercise and so on. 05:04 But he and his fellows joined ranks with this administration, 05:08 he became legal counselor of the president. 05:11 And lawyers defend the indefensible on occasion 05:15 but it just seems to me, 05:16 you can't move your religious program 05:18 and take it in to the centre of profanity 05:24 and expect that you're morally pure anymore. 05:27 It's sad. 05:29 That's what I mostly see 05:30 and that's not so much dangerous, that's sad. 05:32 That's sad. 05:34 And people, many of them 05:35 objected to a previous presidential candidate 05:38 because they didn't like his religion. 05:41 And now someone, and those around him 05:43 of no particular religion or religious ambiguity, 05:49 fine because he will do what they want. 05:52 That's expediency of the highest degree. 05:54 Of course, there have been Cyruses and others in the past 05:58 that have mandated things 06:01 that had benefited God's people. 06:02 But don't call them the promised one. 06:05 And sadly, this is where we are. 06:07 But that's where people have no spiritual perception go. 06:10 Right. 06:12 And so my prayer is that the United States 06:14 that rediscovers its origins and the constitution, 06:17 separation of church and state 06:19 for the government and for society, 06:22 rediscover practical religion for the community. 06:26 You know a godless profane culture 06:28 cannot become religious again 06:30 by joining the priest and the legislators. 06:34 But that exactly what is happening. 06:36 Yeah. 06:37 We're expecting the people 06:39 that previously we have not expected to carry that flag 06:42 to do that for us, 06:43 and we are sort of endorsing by, 06:47 you know, our support for them in everything they do. 06:49 And I know you featured some things 06:50 on the reformation last year, 06:54 and the reformation was western culture 06:56 breaking loose of that dynamic. 06:58 Right, right. 07:00 We were delivering it back again. 07:01 It may not happen rather way 07:03 but we're clearly drifting back into that enchanted ground. 07:07 Well, and you know, 07:08 you mentioned that particular story or set of articles 07:12 that we ran in Message, our whole take is, 07:15 you know, it's 500 years of protest. 07:18 And as African American... And that protest out... 07:20 Yeah, we're going to continue to protest 07:23 because there are so many different facets 07:25 that you have to continue to watch, 07:28 especially the ones where the rubber meets the road 07:31 and it affects people on a day-to-day basis. 07:34 And so like we said before, 07:35 as we see the religious groups backing the administration 07:41 but we see so many vulnerable 07:44 people pushed out at the same time, 07:47 shouldn't it have the opposite effect? 07:49 Shouldn't it not only have the effect of 07:54 allowing people to understand 07:56 and have a broader spiritual effect, 07:59 but also uplift their lives. 08:01 But we're seeing as this force 08:04 and the religious influence get together 08:07 and what we know from prophecy is 08:08 it is not a lifting of our bowls 08:11 and we're seeing people lose their lives. 08:13 And you used the term and I understood it 08:15 but I want to pick up on it, you know, backing. 08:17 There's nothing wrong with religious leaders 08:20 backing in the sense of being supportive 08:22 of a government on something particular 08:25 but to be wholesale supporters is always dangerous. 08:28 Billy Graham who recently died had a checked history, 08:31 but overall, he was a strong moral force in the US, 08:34 but toward the end, 08:36 he said that he had made a mistake 08:38 in becoming so politically identified 08:40 with these different presidents. 08:42 You know, he got to the point where in the back room, 08:44 he's sort of suggesting policy that they should take 08:48 and they listen to him because of his moral clout. 08:51 That wasn't really right. 08:53 I counted that not counter but in comparison, 08:57 we just did a story featuring Chaplin Barry Black, 09:01 the United States Senate... 09:03 He's in a pivotal position, isn't it? 09:04 Pivotal, very interesting position 09:06 but his whole things are... 09:07 I can, based on my reading of the Bible, 09:10 based on my relation, 09:12 I can bring about my views from both philosophy, 09:16 from my spiritual standpoint, and my reading of the Bible 09:19 without being partisan 09:21 and I don't have to weigh in on every issue 09:23 but I can give my perspective, 09:26 and I believe that's interesting... 09:27 Yeah. 09:29 And I've heard him say a number of times, 09:30 and once, years ago, he told me privately, 09:32 he believes that he's sort of a Daniel 09:34 put there at a pivotal type of place. 09:36 I asked him that. He says, "No, I'm Barry." 09:40 That is interesting perspective. 09:42 Yeah, there's no question. 09:45 But there's more like him, he's not the only one. 09:47 And we need to say 09:49 there's a positive aspect of people of faith 09:51 planted in these positions and they're not open about it 09:55 but their faith determines how they react, 09:57 but they're not promoting their identity. 10:00 Right, right. Right. 10:01 I hope to see more that I love the fact 10:04 that Barry Black was such a great 10:06 and outspoken spiritual representative. 10:12 At a recent Liberty dinner, 10:14 I had special opportunity 10:16 to bring a brief welcome to the attendees 10:20 from the Washington establishment. 10:22 Not wanting to be openly critical of 10:25 what's happening with church involvement in politics, 10:28 I said that lately, 10:30 there has been the appeal of the Milvian Bridge 10:34 and the Claymont solution. 10:37 The Milvian Bridge was the calling card of Constantine 10:41 when he took over civil control of Christianity 10:44 and the other was the proclamation 10:48 of the first crusade that led in a very dangerous 10:51 and violent direction for Christianity. 10:54 I'm afraid that today, 10:56 many Christian leaders in the United States 10:58 and their search for power are risking the Milvian Bridge 11:04 and even the Claymont solution 11:08 to what is at root religious conflict in our world today. 11:13 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2018-10-29