Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI180405B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:06 Before the break with Carmela Monk Crawford, 00:11 Editor of Message Magazine, 00:12 I was bouncing you around from pillar to post, 00:16 starting with music, and we end up with food. 00:18 Yes. Yes. 00:20 But what I'm trying to do 00:21 is deconstruct some American history, 00:25 obviously from the point of racial identity 00:29 and the experience of slavery, 00:30 but also how religion figured in all of this. 00:34 And I just do not think the hot questions 00:36 have been consistently asked of American history on this. 00:41 It ended up very well. 00:43 As a Christian, I can say that, 00:45 as the Seventh-day Adventist Christian 00:47 that at least till the modern secularism 00:53 hit full force in the US, most of that population, 00:58 most of the general population is Christian, normally, 01:01 doesn't mean a high percentage of any group are dedicated all, 01:07 you know, knowing and confirm but their identity is. 01:12 But they didn't come from 01:17 West Africa where most of them came from as Christians. 01:21 That was rare to unknown. 01:24 So we can say it's a great transition. 01:26 But it didn't happen a good way. 01:28 No. No. 01:30 And it bears a lot 01:31 on what religious liberty stands for, 01:34 lack of coercion and to persuade someone, 01:37 not force them against their will, so. 01:39 Absolutely. 01:40 And now I see what you're saving. 01:42 Yes, I agree, and I agree with you. 01:44 And this is something that we're seeing even now, 01:47 more and more and you know, it is... 01:51 The younger generation 01:53 is perhaps more unwilling to tolerate. 01:57 Yes. Well, I'll tell you a story. 01:59 Oh. It's not a secret thing. 02:02 But it comes into current goings on in the US. 02:07 I was at a camp meeting 02:12 at an Adventist black college, 02:14 a few couple decades ago now, 02:17 and I had to say something. 02:19 And there was a walkway around, 02:22 a hallway around that went right behind the pulpit. 02:26 So as I walked around it, the blind corners all the way. 02:29 And as I came, suddenly upon a group of about 02:34 15 young black pastors and they were 02:37 really getting into a big debate. 02:40 And the minute I appeared, 02:42 and I did suddenly on the curve, 02:44 it's like the air cut, they stopped talking. 02:47 So I said, "What are you talking about?" 02:49 First, they wouldn't face up. 02:51 Then I found that they had had a big debate, 02:54 there were two clear fractions 02:56 as to whether Christianity was an appropriate religion 03:00 for the black man today 03:03 and that perhaps Islam was a better religion, 03:07 since Christianity was the religion 03:09 of the oppressor. 03:10 So I said the obvious which to me. 03:12 I said, "Well, you should be aware 03:14 that the Arabs were the slave traders 03:17 as they still are today in some countries in Africa." 03:21 And one guy says, "That's what I told them. 03:22 That's what I told them." 03:23 But what got me was that this is an active debate 03:27 even among some ministers today. 03:29 I have none of them followed through on it. 03:32 The burden of history on the religion that, 03:35 I hope they all believe and are practicing fully 03:38 from their heart now, but it troubles some of them, 03:41 the baggage of how that religion 03:45 was forced on them. 03:47 I think you make a good point, the baggage. 03:49 And coming from a legal background 03:54 and even sometimes 03:56 an alternative dispute resolution, 04:00 the thing is, it's good to know the history 04:03 and to know from when to come, 04:05 and to know what goes into our decision making 04:07 and our policy making and the reason 04:09 why we do the things that we do. 04:12 I believe it's good to recognize... 04:13 Well, the Supreme Court spends the whole time logic. 04:16 Well, no, that's true, that's true. 04:18 And it's good to know, even within our churches 04:23 where certain policies come in 04:26 and their disparate impact on other people, 04:31 people who are not maybe white 04:33 but people who come from a myriad 04:35 of other backgrounds. 04:37 And so I say to others, I say, "Yes, we have to recognize." 04:40 I think we cannot do much about what is in the past, 04:45 but our current-day church, 04:47 and I'm saying church in the generic sense, 04:50 the Christian church can rightfully, 04:55 legitimately take the hit for carrying the banner 05:00 and for looking like it turns a blind eye to both racism, 05:06 I'm saying in general, 05:07 and I'm talking about the people 05:09 who get most of the attention in the news 05:11 which some people would say are evangelical Christians. 05:13 You brought it to where I wanted to end up. 05:15 Yes. 05:16 And so there are people 05:18 who rightfully can take that punch 05:21 and they should take it 05:22 because they have turned a blind eye 05:26 to the problems 05:28 and they have criminalized people who are poor, 05:33 criminalized people who are minorities, 05:36 criminalized people who have a different, 05:39 and I won't say lifestyle but orientation. 05:42 The word I would even use synonymously 05:45 or instead of it is marginalized. 05:49 Marginalized? 05:50 But for me, it is a very big thing 05:53 just to see people say, well... 05:56 And we just heard this, you know, 05:57 they had a poll that said the other day, 05:59 majority of Americans think that black people 06:02 just need to try harder. 06:04 And the language that has been used 06:08 is not only marginalizing but is demeaning 06:11 and a complete ignorance of the experience 06:16 that people are going through, 06:18 and the structures that are in place 06:20 that have denied people certain opportunities. 06:22 And so when we talk about the Christian church 06:25 and the moving forward, 06:27 we can't do much about what's in the past, 06:29 but we can say, "Today, it ends here with me." 06:33 And this is what I would like to see differently. 06:35 Well, yes, but today 06:38 is as it is because of the past. 06:40 This is true. On the simplest level. 06:42 This is true. 06:43 I go out to a lot of black churches 06:45 and their form of worship, generally speaking, 06:48 and I saw some more one way than another, 06:51 but compared to the Anglo churches, 06:55 it's a different style. 06:57 And I believe a lot of its origins 07:00 can be traced back through the stream of history 07:03 to a nonwestern source. 07:09 This is true. 07:10 It doesn't make it right or wrong. 07:11 Right. Right. 07:13 But the difference is with us still, 07:14 even though the religion that has been adopted. 07:17 Well, I think, you know, 07:18 I mean this is an interesting conversation 07:20 because you're talking cultural identifiers, 07:26 and cultural experiences, and music, and worship styles. 07:30 And while that is meaningful 07:32 especially within some of our conservative denominations, 07:36 you still have that music debate, 07:38 and it is going on even right now. 07:39 What is more meaningful 07:42 and what our young people need to see 07:46 is to see us take a hard stand 07:48 on things that matter on a day-to-day basis. 07:51 And the Civil Rights Movement 07:52 I think was a massive step in that direction. 07:55 Yes. 07:57 But here we are 50 years out. 07:58 I lived through the Civil Rights Movement 08:00 and it's not quite true to think 08:02 that it was universally adopted. 08:04 No, it is not. 08:05 It was a time of great conflict. 08:08 It gave rise to Governor Wallace and other things. 08:13 As today, making America great again 08:15 is sort of code for many people are going back 08:18 to an era that suited them, but not everybody. 08:21 Correct. Correct. 08:23 And this is the serious issue that most young people 08:27 are looking at today, and they're wondering 08:29 why the elders in their church, 08:31 or why the pastors in their church 08:33 are not saying anything 08:35 about the impact of climate change. 08:37 Right. All right? 08:39 And so we see people in Puerto Rico... 08:41 Hold that thought. 08:42 We'll have another program on that. 08:44 Hold that thought. 08:46 I can relate it to religious liberty and prophecy. 08:49 Right. Right. But, yeah. 08:50 Well, and each one of these things 08:52 I believe does relate to our religious liberty. 08:56 You may not have the same grasp 08:58 as I have the same grasp 09:00 on prophetic things in the Bible. 09:03 You may look at it differently. 09:04 I maintain that you don't have to have that grasp, 09:07 but you could see what's happening 09:09 in this world now 09:11 and you can see how things are shaping up. 09:13 And even if without the benefit of that, 09:15 you know, something is terribly wrong. 09:16 If you have any spiritual inclination, 09:17 you can see the fullness of time as the Bible says. 09:21 And even if you don't have a spiritual inclination, 09:23 I believe, you can. 09:25 Well, the Bible says, "Men's hearts failing them 09:27 for fear of what's coming on the world." 09:29 Yes. 09:30 This is a time of great dissatisfaction 09:33 and great apprehension. 09:35 But without spiritual biblical understanding, 09:38 you can't really identify what that means. 09:41 But, yes, the fullness of time is before everybody right now. 09:45 And yes, with prophecy, you look forward. 09:48 But unless you have a sense of the leading out of Egypt, 09:52 you don't know... 09:53 You can't connect it to that forward view. 09:55 That's my view. 09:56 No, I don't have a conflict with that at all. 09:59 I agree. 10:01 We have to look at the whole thing. 10:02 I appreciate the opportunity to discuss and discover 10:06 some of this because I do believe it matters, 10:09 and I do believe it's a continuum, 10:12 and we're going to have to do what we can do to stand up, 10:15 our people, our young people want to know 10:17 how we can be more inclusive. 10:20 They want to know how we can stand up 10:22 for people who are subject to the losses 10:25 like they had in Puerto Rico. 10:27 How come we're not coming to the benefit 10:30 and the aid of people who need the assistance? 10:32 How come we are allowing people to be hungry and homeless 10:36 in a world where we have so much and so plenty? 10:40 How come we are war mongering 10:42 when we have a better place to put that money? 10:45 I agree that this is the time 10:46 that we need to look at the whole thing. 10:51 As Editor of Liberty Magazine, it's very gratifying for me 10:54 to have as my guest on this program, 10:58 the Editor of Message Magazine, 10:59 another Seventh-day Adventist magazine. 11:03 And it's worth remembering 11:04 and me reminding you that our movement, 11:08 a movement of expectation of the soon 11:11 and almost immediate return of Jesus Christ 11:14 was carried forward on the efforts 11:19 of publications and the output of editors. 11:23 And today, editors are important. 11:27 Twitter, and all the rest, yes, that's the social wave. 11:31 But it's the people 11:32 that are generating the thoughts 11:34 and interpreting them to the larger audience 11:36 that continue to make a difference. 11:38 Message, yes, there's a message to give. 11:41 Liberty, there is still liberation call for as Jesus 11:44 said in Nazareth, "Freedom for all." 11:49 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2018-11-12