Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI180404B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:07 Before the break, with Carmela Monk Crawford, 00:10 I was trying to have her unwrap 00:13 some of the history of Message Magazine. 00:16 And, of course, its history has a lot of the history 00:18 of the United States, at least in the modern era. 00:22 And that's not over, is it? 00:23 No. No, it's not. 00:25 Even since the... 00:26 Or at the time of the last election 00:28 and ongoing was things like black lives matter. 00:30 Yes. 00:33 We were having to fight the same wars 00:34 for civil rights in my view. 00:37 Yes, right. 00:38 So Message must be doing very, very well, right? 00:40 Oh, what a time it is. 00:42 What a time. 00:43 I was telling someone just last year, I said, 00:46 as an African-American woman, 00:49 I am stressed with the amount of topics 00:53 and the things that are happening 00:54 on a day-to-day basis. 00:56 The things that are happening, the rollbacks, 00:58 the voter suppression, the charges of voter fraud, 01:02 the idea of harassment and sexual assault, 01:08 the idea of so many different things, 01:10 the health disparities, access to health care, 01:13 lack of access to health care, 01:16 our right issues where community policies, 01:19 such as what's happened in Flint, 01:21 affect people's health... 01:22 Right, absolutely. 01:24 Which is such an egregious case, 01:25 where people are sick. 01:27 And I was looking... 01:28 I think I told you a few weeks ago. 01:31 We were in a seminar... 01:33 Not a seminar but it was a workshop, 01:36 they were discussing some research, 01:38 and they were looking at a map of Chicago, 01:41 overlay of Chicago. 01:43 And you've heard so much in the news 01:45 about how Chicago is the murder capital, 01:48 which is not true, 01:49 and you've heard so much about the violence, 01:51 but you know, they do have, 01:52 you know, some different issues, 01:53 and a cycle of police to citizen interactions 01:59 that end up badly to say the least 02:02 and a cycle of higher incarceration rates 02:05 and mass confinement rates for people of color. 02:09 And we are looking at the map and the map of Chicago 02:12 is almost like a, I would say, a boot, 02:15 more like a stocking shape map, 02:18 and the map talks about violence, 02:20 so that's one thing. 02:22 The demographics you're talking about, yeah. 02:23 Yes, demographics, and you're looking at violence, 02:24 then you're looking at foreclosures, 02:27 then you're looking at jobless rates, 02:31 then after all of those things that seem to put the folks 02:35 in this area at a disadvantage, you look at the same people 02:40 are exposed to lead to the tune 02:43 of 75 to 100% of the people have lead exposure 02:48 and lead poisoning. 02:49 How are people supposed to grow? 02:52 How are people supposed to prosper? 02:54 How are they supposed to move on 02:56 when you have those kinds of things happening? 02:58 And that's what happened in Flint. 02:59 It's a multi-faceted threat... 03:00 A multi-faceted... 03:02 To people's security 03:05 and even knowledge of the world as it is. 03:07 But the reason why I say that though is when you tell... 03:10 You're open by talking about Message 03:14 and where we consistently are... 03:16 The battle is not over, is it? 03:17 The battle is not only over but the consistent thread 03:20 is the impact on people of color, 03:24 in particular African-Americans. 03:26 And so we do have a great multitude. 03:28 There's no question. 03:29 Clearly, it's a little broader, 03:31 minorities and particularly ethnic minorities, 03:36 but minorities for other reasons, 03:40 the way I would put it, 03:41 the underclass in America is larger 03:44 than people will imagine and the underclass in America 03:47 is as badly off as any underclass 03:49 in the Western world. 03:51 Interesting you say that. 03:52 And the system doesn't care to deal with them. 03:56 Right now, we are at a time in our country 03:58 where we're seeing the people, 04:00 the incomes runaway for that highest end, 04:04 and people who are on the lower end 04:07 are just blossoming. 04:08 So I was reading a statistic, you know, of course, 04:11 you have the measure of the poverty level, 04:13 the poverty index, but there's another index 04:16 that doesn't just address income 04:20 and what people bring in, 04:21 but it also looks at the income as you match it 04:25 against your need for your housing, 04:27 need for your clothing, need for everything, 04:30 just to live, and they say, 04:32 at least 43% of the people 04:36 are dealing with that kind of income 04:39 or money strain. 04:42 It's a very, very interesting time. 04:44 And so like you said, it's not just African-American. 04:46 No. 04:47 But you know they were the singular group 04:51 that was systematically kept down, mistreated, 04:55 and then after the civil war and reconstruction were picked 04:58 on more than others and they're emblematic 05:01 and central to what's going on this. 05:03 You can't dismiss this single group, 05:08 but it's not just them. 05:09 And the U.S. has not an enviable record 05:13 in dealing with minorities generally. 05:15 Some minorities have moved on 05:18 and up like the Irish. 05:23 And I wouldn't consider them an Irish, they're not of... 05:27 But they were not just ethnic, they were religious minority. 05:29 Mm-hmm. 05:30 So when they came, 05:32 they stood out with their accent, 05:33 their religion and overall in the Protestant country 05:38 that Catholicism caused problems. 05:40 And, you know, I don't know 05:42 if you know the history of the Irish. 05:44 At one stage, there was a riot in New York City. 05:49 It was around 05:52 close to the civil war as I remember. 05:55 Fifty thousand people rampaged through the streets 05:58 for about three days, killing any Irishmen 06:02 they could lay their hands on. 06:04 Horrible stuff. Right. 06:06 And for different reasons, different minorities 06:08 have popped up and gathered the ire. 06:12 We were talking before the program 06:13 about the Chinese. 06:14 Right. 06:16 Again, horrible mistreatment, 06:18 not, I think, because they look different 06:20 but that was an easy way to pick on them, 06:22 but they were seen as taking away jobs 06:24 and threatening the way of life for other people and violence 06:28 and then legal restrictions followed 06:31 that you can't defend in the modern era. 06:33 No, you can't defend it at any point. 06:35 We've got a little bit of time left. 06:36 But you mentioned Chicago. 06:37 Let's talk about Chicago, 06:39 and I know I've got a few years on you. 06:40 I remember very well 1968 06:43 and the Democratic National Convention 06:47 and the rioting in Chicago. 06:50 And lately, a few times I've seen 06:52 on documentary footage recounting of that. 06:56 It's quite shocking, even at this point in time, 06:59 to see the police just, gratuitously, 07:03 hundreds of police beating young people, 07:06 some of them lying insensible on the streets, 07:08 others with their heads wide open 07:09 and blood everywhere, dragging them like dead meat 07:13 into the paddy wagons. 07:16 I mean, Chicago has had an interesting history, 07:19 and at that period, it was run like a mafia, 07:24 May Daley and his machine, 07:26 it was really temerity whole writ large in my view. 07:29 Right. 07:31 So, you know, Chicago is not out of the woods yet, 07:34 but it's come a long way from that era, 07:37 from the Al Capone, 07:38 and the prohibition era, and the crime, and so on. 07:41 So the minorities there have suffered, 07:45 but I think they are suffering 07:46 because it's been a very dysfunctional city 07:48 for a very long time. 07:50 I think minorities, particularly African-American, 07:53 suffer because there is a long history 07:57 that has not been dealt with, 07:59 structurally as well as interpersonally. 08:02 And, you know, like I said... 08:04 Like what happened, you probably don't know either, 08:06 but I call it the burden of history. 08:08 How do you get over it? 08:09 But it's real, it's huge. 08:10 It is real, and until we deal with that... 08:14 You know, I have the privilege of being here with you 08:17 the week after the Starbucks chairman 08:21 closed 8,000 Starbucks shops across the United States. 08:25 The week after Roseanne Barr writes an extremely 08:30 inflammatory and insensitive racial remark. 08:35 African-Americans have borne the brunt of this 08:38 and African-Americans have been leading the cause. 08:41 And why am I saying that? 08:42 Not to hold up what our experience has been, 08:47 but what is relevant to me, 08:50 especially in the context talking with you, 08:52 I believe that the experience 08:56 that African-Americans have gone through 08:58 and continue to go through, 09:02 it puts that experience as the canary in the mine. 09:06 So when we see people being beaten, 09:09 when we see a lack of police rights, 09:11 when we see that the police are stopping 09:13 and frisking and asking, 09:16 you know, just stopping because they want to, 09:18 and when we see people 09:20 being disproportionately confined in jail 09:24 and incarcerated and all that sort of thing, 09:26 we are seeing that continuum 09:30 of rights that we all hold dear, 09:32 especially church folks, where we believe 09:35 in our freedom of speech, in our freedom to worship, 09:38 but the freedoms have been burning on this end 09:42 for so long and which is... 09:43 I watched some footage of the Democratic Convention 09:46 the other day and Walter Cronkite 09:48 long dead now, but he was an icon, you know... 09:50 Yes, he was. 09:51 Walter Cronkite concept something it was true. 09:53 And here in the aftermath of it, 09:55 he was sitting at the convention 09:56 and he looked at the camera and he says, 09:59 "We are living in a police state." 10:01 He says, "There's no other way to describe it." 10:03 Right. 10:04 Now nowadays, if you say that, you get shot down 10:06 but we've already been there. 10:08 And this is not the worst country in the world 10:10 by any means but it has, periodically, 10:13 had aspects of police state. 10:14 Right. 10:16 And when you see... 10:17 And some people feel it more than others. 10:18 Right. 10:20 And I've dealt with, I've told you privately. 10:22 In one of my previous jobs, 10:24 I dealt a lot with the police force, 10:25 I did videos with them in many case. 10:27 Right, right. 10:28 They were kind to me, but I know that they treat 10:30 certain areas of certain cities sort of like a plantation. 10:35 It's open season for them. 10:38 For some people, yeah. 10:39 And in their defense, there's huge problems 10:43 that how would they deal with it, 10:44 but when you add to it this view 10:46 that sort of a class of people 10:48 that they don't have to worry about, it's very sad. 10:51 And I think we need to 10:55 have a public discussion about this 10:57 and make sure that it's addressed. 10:59 And in my closing and I want to have 11:01 a few comments from you. 11:02 But it's worth remembering, 11:04 since this is a religious liberty program at root, 11:07 that really, the basis of our religiously, 11:09 practical religious liberties day-to-day, 11:12 in the workplace particularly, 11:13 comes from the civil rights movement. 11:15 Oh, yes. 11:16 The constitution is a little vague, 11:18 but the civil rights legislation guarantees lack of, 11:22 you know, prejudice against you because of your religion, 11:24 your ethnicity, your gender, and so on. 11:26 Right, right. And you make such a good point. 11:29 What I would like to see us to continue to explore ways 11:33 that we can be very active 11:37 in the struggle, 11:40 ways in which we can educate our children, 11:42 educate our schools, the principals and the teachers 11:46 in our schools to discuss what we need to do 11:49 regarding preventing problems from happening 11:54 and protecting our children as they grow up. 11:55 And all of these rights 11:56 are interconnected, aren't they? 11:58 They are interconnected. 11:59 And so if we treat one group badly in one area, 12:01 likely, religious liberty will suffer. 12:03 Oh, yes. 12:04 I believe the freedom of speech is a major issue, 12:07 I believe your practice, 12:09 your ability to protest as you need to is an issue. 12:13 The ability to articulate these things, 12:16 this is where we are right now. 12:18 And I believe that what I'm trying to do is 12:21 make sure that my children know how to comport themselves, 12:25 but they also know what their rights are 12:26 and they also realize that you have to do 12:28 what you have to do to stand firm. 12:34 As editor of Liberty Magazine, it's very gratifying for me 12:38 to have as my guest on this program, 12:41 the editor of Message Magazine, 12:42 another Seventh-day Adventist magazine. 12:46 And it's worth remembering and me reminding you 12:49 that our movement, 12:51 a movement of expectation of the soon 12:54 and almost immediate return of Jesus Christ 12:57 was carried forward 12:58 on the efforts of publications 13:03 and the output of editors. 13:06 And today, editors are important. 13:10 Twitter and all the rest, yes, that's the social wave, 13:14 but it's the people that are generating 13:16 the thoughts and interpreting them 13:18 to the larger audience 13:19 that continue to make a difference. 13:21 Message? 13:22 Yes, there's a message to give. 13:24 Liberty? 13:25 There is still liberation call for, 13:27 as Jesus said in Nazareth, freedom for all. 13:32 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2018-10-08