Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000405B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:06 Before the break, with Carmela Monk Crawford, 00:11 Editor of Message magazine, 00:12 I was bouncing you around from pillar to post, 00:16 starting with music and we ended with food. 00:18 Yes. Yes. 00:20 But what I'm trying to do is deconstruct 00:23 some American history, 00:25 obviously from the point of a racial identity 00:29 and the experience of slavery, 00:30 but also how religion figured in all of this. 00:34 And I just do not think the hot questions have been 00:37 consistently asked of American history on this. 00:41 It ended up very well. 00:43 As a Christian, I can say that, 00:45 as the Seventh-day Adventist Christian. 00:49 At least, till the modern secularism 00:53 hit full force in the US, 00:58 most of the general population is Christian, normally, 01:01 doesn't mean a high percentage of any group 01:06 are dedicated all, you know, knowing and confirm, 01:10 but their identity is. 01:12 But they didn't come from West Africa 01:18 where most of them came from as Christians. 01:21 That was rare, to unknown. 01:24 So we can say it's a great transition. 01:26 But it didn't happen a good way. 01:28 No. No. 01:30 And it bears a lot 01:32 on what religious liberty stands for, 01:34 lack of coercion and to persuade someone, 01:37 not force them against their will. 01:39 Absolutely. 01:40 And now I see what you were saying. Yes. 01:42 I agree, and I agree with you, and this is something 01:45 that we're seeing even now, more and more. 01:48 And you know, 01:50 it is the younger generation is, 01:53 perhaps, more unwilling to tolerate. 01:57 Well, I'll tell you a story. Yes. 01:59 It's not a secret thing. 02:03 But it comes into current goings on in the US. 02:07 I was at a camp meeting 02:12 at an Adventist black college a couple decades ago, 02:16 you know, and I had to say something. 02:19 And there was a walkway around, 02:23 a hallway around that went right behind the Pope. 02:26 So as I walked around the blind corners all the way, 02:29 and as I came suddenly upon a group 02:32 of about 15 young black pastors, 02:37 and they were really getting into a big debate. 02:40 And the minute I appeared 02:42 and I did suddenly on the curve, 02:44 it's like, they are cut, they stopped talking. 02:47 So I said, "What are you talking about?" 02:49 First, they wouldn't fuss up. 02:51 Then I found that they'd had a big debate, 02:54 they were two clear fractions 02:56 as to whether Christianity was an appropriate religion 03:00 for the black man today 03:04 and that, perhaps, Islam was a better religion, 03:07 since Christianity was the religion 03:09 of the oppressor. 03:10 So I said, "The obvious which to me..." 03:12 I said, "Well, you should be aware 03:15 that the Arabs were the slave traders 03:17 as they still are today in some countries in Africa." 03:21 And one guy says, "That's what I told them. 03:22 That's what I told them." 03:24 But what got me was that this is an active debate 03:27 even among some ministers today. 03:29 I have none of them followed through on it. 03:32 The burden of history on the religion that, 03:35 I hope they all believe and are practicing 03:37 fully from their heart now, but a trouble for some of them, 03:41 the baggage of how 03:44 that religion was forced on them. 03:47 And I think you make a good point, 03:49 the baggage. 03:50 And coming from a legal background 03:54 and even sometimes 03:56 an alternative dispute resolution, 04:00 the thing is it's good to know the history, 04:03 and to know from where do we come, 04:05 and to know what goes into our decision-making 04:07 and our policy-making 04:09 and the reason why we do the things that we do. 04:12 I believe it's good to recognize... 04:13 Well, the Supreme Court spends the whole time on 04:15 that sort of logic. 04:17 Well, no, that's true, that's true. 04:18 And it is good to know even within our churches, 04:23 where certain policies come in 04:26 and their disparate impact on other people, 04:31 people who are not maybe white 04:33 but people who come from a myriad 04:35 of other backgrounds. 04:37 And so I say of it, I say, yes, we have to recognize. 04:40 I think we cannot do much about what is in the past. 04:45 But our current day church, 04:47 and I'm saying church in the generic sense, 04:50 the Christian church can rightfully, 04:55 legitimately take the hit for carrying the banner, 05:01 and for looking like it turns a blind eye 05:04 to both racism. 05:06 I'm saying in general, 05:07 and I'm talking about the people who get 05:09 most of the attention in the news, 05:11 which some people would say are evangelical Christians. 05:13 It broadens aware or wanted to end up. 05:15 Yes. Yes. 05:16 And so there are people 05:18 who rightfully can take that punch 05:21 and they should take it 05:22 because they have turned a blind eye to the problems 05:27 and they have criminalized people who are poor, 05:33 criminalized people who are minorities, 05:36 criminalize people who have a different, 05:39 and I won't lifestyle but orientation. 05:42 The word I would even use synonymously 05:45 or instead of it is marginalized. 05:49 Marginalized? 05:50 But for me, it is a very big thing 05:53 just to see people say, 05:55 "Well, you know, we just heard this." 05:57 You know, they had a poll that said the other day, 05:59 majority of Americans think that black people 06:02 just need to try harder, 06:04 and the language that has been used 06:08 is not only marginalizing but is demeaning 06:11 and a complete ignorance of the experience 06:16 that people are going through, 06:18 and the structures that are in place 06:20 that have denied people certain opportunities. 06:22 And so when we talk about the Christian church 06:25 and the moving forward, 06:27 we can't do much about what's in the past, 06:29 but we can say, today, it ends here with me, 06:33 and this is what I would like to see different. 06:35 Well, yes, but today is as it is 06:39 because of the past. 06:40 This is true. On the simplest level. 06:42 This is true. 06:43 I go to a lot of black churches and their form of worship, 06:47 generally speaking, 06:49 and I saw some more one way than another. 06:52 But compared to the Anglo churches, 06:55 it's a different style, 06:57 and I believe a lot of its origins 07:00 can be traced back through the stream of history 07:03 to a nonwestern source. 07:09 This is true. 07:10 Doesn't make it right or wrong. Right. Right. 07:12 But the difference is it with the still 07:13 even though the religion that has been adopted. 07:17 Well, I think we, I mean, 07:18 this is an interesting conversation 07:20 because you're talking cultural identifiers, 07:26 and cultural experiences, and music, and worship styles, 07:30 and while that is meaningful, 07:32 especially within 07:34 some of our conservative denominations, 07:36 you still have that music debate, 07:37 and it's going on even right now. 07:40 What is more meaningful 07:42 and what our young people need to see 07:46 is to see us take a hard stand 07:49 on things that matter on a day-to-day basis. 07:51 And the civil rights movement, 07:52 I think, was a massive step in that direction. 07:56 Yes. But here we are 50 years out. 07:58 I lived through the civil rights movement 08:00 and it's not quite true to think that 08:02 it was universally adopted. 08:04 No. It is not. 08:05 It was a time of a great conflict. 08:08 It gave rise to Governor Wallace 08:12 and other things, 08:13 as today making America great again 08:15 is sort of code for many people are going back 08:18 to an era that suited them but not everybody. 08:21 Correct. Correct. 08:23 And this is the serious issue 08:26 that most young people are looking at today, 08:28 and they're wondering why the elders in their church 08:31 or why the pastors in their church 08:33 are not saying anything 08:35 about the impact of climate change. 08:38 Right. All right? 08:39 And so we see people in Puerto Rico... 08:41 Hold that thought. 08:42 We'll have another program on that. 08:44 Hold that thought. 08:46 I can relate it to religious liberty 08:47 and prophecy. 08:49 Right. But, yeah. 08:50 Right. 08:51 Well, and each one of those things 08:53 I believe does relate to our religious liberty. 08:56 You may not have the same grasps 08:58 as I have the same grasp 09:00 on prophetic things in the Bible. 09:03 You may look at it differently. 09:04 I maintain that you don't have to have that grasp 09:07 but you could see what's happening 09:09 in this world now, 09:11 and you can see how things are shaping up, 09:13 and even if without the benefit of that, 09:15 you know something is terribly wrong. 09:16 You should be able to see. 09:17 If you have any spiritual inclination, 09:19 you can see the fullness of time, 09:20 as the Bible says. 09:21 And even if you don't have a spiritual inclination, 09:23 I believe we can. 09:25 Well, the Bible says, men's hearts are failing them 09:27 for fear of what's coming on the world. 09:29 Yes. 09:30 This is a time of great dissatisfaction 09:33 and great apprehension. 09:35 But without spiritual, biblical understanding, 09:38 you don't, you can't really identify 09:40 what that means, 09:41 but yes, the fullness of time is before everybody right now. 09:45 And yes, with prophecy, you look forward. 09:48 But unless you have a sense of the leading out of Egypt, 09:52 you don't know, 09:53 you can't connect to that forward view. 09:55 That's my view. 09:56 Well, I don't have a conflict with that at all. 10:00 I agree. We have to look at the whole thing. 10:02 I appreciate the opportunity 10:04 to discuss and discover some of this 10:07 because I do believe it matters, 10:09 and I do believe it's a continuum, 10:12 and we're going to have to do what we can do to stand up, 10:15 our people, our young people want to know 10:17 how we can be more inclusive. 10:20 They want to know how we can stand up for people 10:22 who are subjected to the losses like they had in Puerto Rico. 10:27 How come we're not coming to the benefit 10:30 and the aid of people who need the assistance? 10:32 How come we are allowing people to be hungry and homeless 10:36 in a world where we have so much and so plenty? 10:40 How come we are warmongering 10:42 when we have a better place to put that money? 10:45 I agree that this is the time 10:46 that we need to look at the whole thing. 10:51 As the Editor of Liberty magazine, 10:53 it's very gratifying for me 10:55 to have as my guest on this program, 10:58 the Editor of Message magazine, 10:59 another Seventh-day Adventist magazine. 11:03 And it's worth remembering and me reminding you 11:06 that our movement, a movement of expectation 11:10 of the soon and almost immediate return 11:13 of Jesus Christ was carried forward 11:15 on the efforts of publications 11:20 and the output of editors. 11:23 And today, editors are important. 11:27 Twitter, and all the rest, yes, that's the social wave. 11:31 But it's the people 11:32 that are generating the thoughts 11:33 and interpreting them to the larger audience 11:36 that continue to make a difference. 11:38 Message, yes, there's a message to give. 11:41 Liberty, there is still liberation call for 11:44 as Jesus said in Nazareth, "Freedom for all." 11:49 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2018-10-29