Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000402B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:06 Before the break, with guest Elijah Mvundura, 00:12 we were talking about fake news 00:14 and the underlying lack of spirituality 00:18 that has enabled it. 00:20 But, of course, it has its antecedents 00:22 in philosophical declension in Western thought, I think. 00:26 Yes. 00:27 But, you know, I tried to bring it back 00:28 to the here and now. 00:30 And perhaps, you and I don't have immediate answers, 00:31 but the average person is faced with a real conundrum, 00:35 fake news is not just from a year ago 00:38 but now that they're well aware 00:40 that there's so much fake news floating around. 00:42 How does a person 00:44 look through the forest of dead trees 00:46 to see some greenery? 00:49 That's a tough one. 00:50 I've been reflecting a lot on it. 00:55 And I don't think I have a major bullet 00:57 because there is so much. 00:59 If you cannot trust venerable institutions 01:04 like the New York Times and Washington Post, 01:08 then what do you trust? 01:09 But what I see... 01:11 However, if you ever see, 01:12 it seems to me that the real conflict 01:15 is not so much on the news themselves, 01:18 as in terms of the meaning, what does this mean? 01:21 I think that because the people resort to fake news 01:25 when the news reveals the meanings 01:27 that they do not want. 01:28 I think maybe this is exactly the way it is. 01:31 There is a basic, I think, agreement on what has happened. 01:35 But it is about the meaning, what does this thing mean? 01:38 And it is because we cannot be able to process that, 01:42 put that within a meaningful framework, 01:44 that's why people ultimately reject 01:46 what they cannot put within... 01:48 You're getting close to what I was fishing for. 01:50 We need a framework. 01:52 So how do you establish the framework 01:54 to at least sift through this debris field? 01:58 Yes. 01:59 And now, 02:00 you know, when we speak about a framework, 02:02 we're also speaking about the world view. 02:03 You need something to filter the things that you're seeing. 02:07 Because, remember, 02:08 the Bible says, "The day will come 02:10 when it will deceive the very elect if possible." 02:13 Yes. 02:14 So it's a deceptive time, generally, on every level. 02:16 And we're talking about actual news now, 02:18 but the ideas floating around are quite deceptive. 02:21 Yes, maybe I think we can then go back again 02:24 to the whole issue of the Great Controversy. 02:27 Adventists, they call it the Great Controversy 02:28 or maybe the great war between good and evil. 02:32 The importance of the books of Daniel and Revelation 02:35 is actually to give us a framework of world events 02:40 so that you can actually see 02:41 that behind all these world events, 02:44 there are forces that are mobilizing. 02:46 The devil has got his strategies. 02:49 So maybe if I can even use 02:51 the metaphor of the jigsaw puzzle, 02:53 there is a puzzle that is taking place, 02:55 a picture that is taking place. 02:57 And whether it's fake news, whether it's social media, 03:00 whether it's the things in the economic field, 03:03 it's all pieces of a puzzle. 03:05 And unless we have got that Great Controversy motive, 03:08 that cosmic war motive, 03:10 we won't be able to see what all these things mean. 03:14 I believe that you'll be able to accept hard things 03:18 if you know what it means. 03:20 The more you understand what is taking place. 03:22 Yeah. Right? 03:24 Even if you see a lion coming, it's really a scary thing 03:28 but, at least, you know that this is a lion coming, 03:31 you can, "Okay, maybe let me rush for a tree." 03:33 But if you don't know what is coming, 03:34 it becomes really, really scary. 03:36 And the reason why the primitive people 03:39 in ancient civilization were afraid of everything 03:42 is because they didn't know, 03:44 they didn't know even how to understand nature 03:46 and the like so everything became a monster. 03:50 And that's why when you read mythology, 03:52 mythology is filled with monsters. 03:55 And I think there's a Spanish painter 03:57 who said, "The sleep of reason produces monsters." 04:01 And what has happened in the Western world 04:03 is where our rational faculties 04:05 have literally been put to sleep, 04:08 and no wonder why we now have monsters everywhere. 04:12 I agree with you. 04:13 And yet at the same time, 04:16 there are monsters to be afraid of. 04:19 And I was talking to a group a few days ago 04:22 and told them about artificial reality 04:25 that's coming at us in all fronts, not just... 04:29 When you say artificial reality, 04:30 what do you mean? 04:32 Well, not just the goggles that the kids like 04:34 where they immerse themselves with technology of projection 04:40 of apparently solid living figures... 04:45 Like at a concert, a few years ago 04:47 even, Michael Jackson was performing on stage, 04:51 he's dead, he was performing on stage 04:54 with live performers. 04:55 And from the audience, 04:56 they could hardly tell the difference. 04:58 Oh, yes. 04:59 That's old technology. Yes. 05:00 There's new technology where there can be projection 05:02 of realities into the clouds and so on. 05:05 I think things that are apparently 05:07 almost mystical and magic 05:10 derive from real technological reality 05:13 and people can be very quickly deceived. 05:15 Yeah. 05:17 But what has happened actually when you look 05:18 at all those things that we're talking about, 05:20 they're actually not just creating these things 05:22 from thin air, 05:23 they're going back to mythology. 05:25 Yes. Yeah. 05:26 And mythology doesn't make that distinction. 05:28 That's why, again, 05:30 the conflict actually in our civilization 05:32 is between paganism and Christianity. 05:34 It's divulging. Yes. 05:36 We need to know that there is always that conflict 05:38 between paganism... 05:39 Devolving, not divulging, devolving. 05:41 Yes, yes. 05:42 Between religion, between paganism and religion. 05:44 I wanted to say that most of the polarities 05:48 that we're seeing in the world, 05:49 I've always thought that they are false polarities. 05:54 People, for example, in the African experience, 05:56 they are anchors of realities between... 05:58 The polarity between black and white, 06:01 and in politics as Democrats and Republicans. 06:05 And if you go maybe to Europe, 06:08 it's maybe the Polish and the immigrants 06:10 or it's between the Christians and the Muslims. 06:12 And for me, all these are false polarities. 06:16 The underlying polarity is between good and evil, 06:20 it's the war between good and evil. 06:22 And I think it's a Russian author who said 06:23 that, "Evil does not run between nations, 06:27 it does not run between nations, 06:29 it runs through the human heart." 06:31 That's where the conflict is, 06:32 the conflict between good and evil. 06:34 And the more that we are with that conflict is within us. 06:38 And that the point really, in our life, 06:42 is not so much to mobilize the forces of good 06:45 but to make sure that you yourself 06:48 you are standing on the right side 06:49 and you can only stand on the right side 06:51 as you recognize God as your what? 06:53 As your maker. 06:54 I think it's Abraham Lincoln who says it. 06:56 That both sides of the Civil War, 06:58 they are sides with God. 07:00 They believe they were right. Yes. 07:01 Prayed to the same God. Yes. 07:02 They believe that they... 07:04 They spoke of the good angel of that nature 07:05 and the contrasting evil. 07:07 Yes. And the nature, yes. 07:08 But the issue then ultimately was not so much 07:10 on whose side God is on, but who is on God's side. 07:14 And that's why on that point 07:16 where I'm very critical of the many Christians 07:18 who want to involve themselves in politics 07:21 because it's actually 07:23 as if they're domesticating God, 07:25 they're making that God is on our side. 07:28 And God is not on anybody's... 07:30 They're chosen men rather than God. 07:31 Yes. But God is God. 07:32 But there's something else, 07:34 and you probably haven't thought about it. 07:35 Yes. 07:36 You and I agree that there's a threat of evil 07:38 that's running through men 07:41 more strongly than any previous ages. 07:45 Rulers as recently as Adolf Hitler, 07:48 in spite, of the fact that he mobilized the nation 07:50 to his evil purpose, 07:52 he came to believe they had failed him 07:53 and that they were the problem. 07:55 He was ready to sacrifice his whole country as punishment 07:58 because they hadn't been worthy of him, right? 08:01 You don't want rulers or parties or factions 08:06 seeing other human beings on mass as evil, 08:08 they have evil within them. 08:10 Yes. 08:11 And I'm going to look to something 08:13 you might not have thought of. 08:14 There's a huge phenomenon growing in popular culture now, 08:17 the zombie mentality. 08:20 A large part of population 08:22 are going to be, if not already, 08:24 a zombie nation. 08:26 They're dehumanized, they're not humans, 08:28 they're dangerous, 08:29 and they need to be exterminated 08:30 because they're inherently evil. 08:32 I really think something's being prepared 08:34 for whole swathes of the population. 08:37 So how do we separate that acknowledgement 08:41 that we all have an evil tendency, 08:42 but we can't turn that against a fellow man, right? 08:46 Yes, I think that that's very, very crucial 08:48 because what Hitler did, 08:50 he actually stated 08:51 that the Jews belong to another God. 08:54 Oh, with that, but he also said of his own people, 08:56 "You failed me, you're going to have to die now 08:58 because you're not worthy of my leadership." 08:59 Yes, yes. 09:01 But then, of course, that shows the demonic origins 09:03 of Nazi philosophy because... 09:04 Absolutely. 09:06 And people forget 09:07 that Hitler had many references to God, 09:09 he always spoke about providence. 09:11 He even said that Nazism was founded on Christianity. 09:14 Yes. Falsely. 09:15 He believed in the Almighty. 09:18 Again, that's why I think the Great Controversy 09:20 is very, very important 09:21 because if you don't know the distinction 09:23 between the God of this world and the God up there in heaven, 09:27 you are likely to confuse God with the devil, 09:30 the divine and the demonic. 09:32 And so when you speak 09:33 about the separation of state and church, 09:34 you are also speaking about the distinction 09:37 between good and evil. 09:38 The distinction between the divine 09:40 and the demonic, 09:41 this is very, very, very crucial because... 09:43 It's a very interesting insight. 09:45 I appreciate your insight. 09:46 Yeah, when people talk about church and state, 09:48 they only think of church and state, 09:50 we also have church and state, 09:52 we also speak about the distinction 09:55 between religion and politics, 09:56 between the divine and the demonic. 09:58 Once we lose the consciousness of that distinction, 10:02 there's going to be confusion. 10:03 And the devil's strategy is to confuse us 10:09 that we do not make these distinctions, 10:11 that we may worship him as God, 10:13 and, in fact, that is the very central thing 10:16 about the Revelation, the Book of Revelation, 10:18 it speaks of how the devil is going to masquerade as God, 10:22 and people are going to worship him as God. 10:25 So that's why we need to read the Book of Daniel 10:28 and Revelation that we may know where we stand, 10:31 and how to react to the many, many false things 10:35 that are coming up around us. 10:40 We live in an era 10:41 where it's very hard to understand real truth. 10:46 And, of course, pilot said rhetorically, 10:49 what is truth. 10:51 I think if people are grounded on God and His Word 10:55 and have a deep and abiding faith 10:58 in heavenly things, 11:02 they will be able to perceive the essential truth 11:05 in any situation. 11:07 But when we're dealing with hard and simple facts 11:09 about the reality around us, it is possible, 11:13 as the Bible warns, 11:14 that the very elect will be deceived. 11:17 Each of us need to dedicate ourselves to being truthful, 11:22 and ultimately that writ large will create a truthful society. 11:26 But, in the interim, 11:28 the illusions and deceptions of evil writ large 11:31 are going to magnify fake news 11:34 into the worst possible deception, 11:37 even for the very elect. 11:39 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2018-09-24