Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000400B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider
00:08 where before the break, 00:09 we were really getting into one of my favorite topics, 00:12 the discussion of the English Civil War 00:14 and its direct affect on the American experience. 00:20 You mentioned how, I think, either on camera 00:24 or maybe it was after we broke, 00:26 how it's always doomed to failure 00:28 when you try to by law 00:30 or a legal structure determine people's behavior 00:33 and try to make up a difference 00:36 that religion should have done. 00:39 The knock against Oliver Cromwell, 00:40 if you read the few history books 00:44 in general circulation that talk about him 00:46 is that people rejected him 00:48 because he didn't allow dancing and frivolous entertainments. 00:53 I've more and more come to believe 00:55 that's largely disinformation 00:58 because under Oliver Cromwell, 01:02 yeah, Oliver Cromwell, 01:04 he himself often had concerts and stuff 01:07 in the palace that he took. 01:09 It was the palace built for Wolsey 01:12 during the break with Rome. 01:15 So he personally was not against entertainment. 01:18 I am sure that they discouraged the outrageous, 01:21 profane public entertainments 01:23 that existed before the revolution 01:27 during his reign itself 01:28 which is being characterized 01:30 by his many enemies as autocratic. 01:33 Oliver Cromwell was amazingly benign. 01:36 He even allowed them to publish a book 01:38 telling how to kill the ruler, himself, the... 01:43 His title was Lord Protector. Yes. 01:46 That wouldn't be allowed today in the United States. 01:49 You think any New York Times would dare publish a book 01:52 that told you how to plot 01:54 and plan the murder of the President? 01:56 You'd have the FBI at your door. 01:58 Yes, actually it's nice that you've mentioned that 02:00 because one of the things that I've picked 02:03 is how when you talk of Oliver Cromwell 02:06 and the people who were involved 02:08 in these full Civil War, even the Puritans, 02:11 the way that they are depicted, 02:13 the American Puritans, they are depicted as killjoys, 02:16 and people who were just autocratic and the like. 02:19 And yet people tried to sanitize 02:21 the French philosophers, Rousseau, and Nietzsche, 02:25 they actually said some very extreme, 02:27 some very cruel things 02:29 and yet their thought is sanitized today. 02:31 You know, we literally worship people like Rousseau 02:35 and Nietzsche and people like, even many people, 02:36 they are not even aware that they worship them... 02:38 Of their mental and social problems. 02:40 Yes. 02:42 It troubled me maybe when I was reading 02:43 on these people. 02:44 Yes. 02:46 So we don't hear, like John Milton, 02:47 we don't hear. 02:49 And yet these people 02:50 have influenced western culture positively. 02:51 We don't hear anything about them 02:53 and if we hear anything about them, 02:54 their Christian thoughts, 02:55 that you know, the Christian roots 02:57 of their thought is literally amputated. 03:00 Yeah, yeah. 03:01 And, but it's important for us to go back there 03:03 because these are people 03:05 who tried to work out God's designs in their life 03:08 and tried to strike a balance. 03:09 And that for me, I am African 03:11 but I am attracted to the Anglo-Saxon tradition, 03:14 I believe it is the one 03:16 that is most open and we can sit. 03:18 Yeah. 03:19 The Anglo-Saxon societies have been the most open 03:21 in terms of even assimilating immigrants. 03:24 You know, you look at Britain, you look at Canada 03:26 where I come from, Australia, and the US 03:31 and so as the light... 03:34 Well, Daniel to Assad... 03:35 Let me throw in something that you smack me on. 03:37 Daniel to Assad, in the last 2000 years, 03:42 what empires and global influences 03:45 have there been? 03:47 There was Rome. 03:48 Yes. 03:50 And you alluded, was it Hobbes or someone you said 03:52 was the ghost of Rome and still with us. 03:55 And I think that is because as Rome collapsed, 04:00 its power was picked up in many ways 04:02 by the Bishop of Rome... 04:04 Yes. 04:05 With huge secular and religious claims 04:07 and you know, the pope still stands forth 04:10 in his white robes 04:11 but he is not a legal domination 04:14 around the world. 04:16 So other than the Roman Empire, 04:18 what have we seen in the modern era? 04:20 It's the British Empire. Yes. 04:22 For better or worse, it's in its rampant now, 04:26 but you know, there was a period 04:28 where it controlled about a third of the world. 04:30 So the influence was pervasive. 04:32 And I think you can make a very strong case 04:35 that while it was cruel, Australian, 04:37 I would say how cruel it was, shipping off convicts, 04:40 you know, the slave trade to the US was horrible, 04:42 but it was just about as bad 04:43 the way they dealt with the convicts. 04:45 More than half of them 04:47 would typically die on the ship out there. 04:48 They would treat them like dirt, right? 04:50 But that was the underside of it. 04:51 But the successes and the good things 04:53 about the British Empire, 04:55 I think, many of them derive from the fact 04:58 that there was the Protestant Reformation 05:00 and England was the prime exemplar 05:03 of Protestantism. 05:04 Yes, it's not recognized though rather... 05:07 You see how the Anglo-American tradition 05:09 is compared to the Communists. 05:12 Right. 05:13 The Totalitarian ideologies that were underwritten 05:16 by continental philosophers 05:19 are responsible for the genocide 05:22 of more than one hundred million people. 05:25 You are talking of Stalin, Nazi Germany, 05:29 you are talking of Pol Pot, Cambodia, China, 05:32 you can trace all that to Cuba, even in Africa, in Ethiopia, 05:37 you can literally say they have been responsible 05:39 for the shedding of more blood 05:41 and yet when it is compared, 05:43 you know, America, I know, a lot is said of America, 05:46 how America has caused this, 05:49 but nothing is almost said about the millions of people 05:53 that have been murdered by the Totalitarian ideologies 05:55 because the American Anglo system is... 05:58 Well, you mentioned America and that's the third empire. 06:01 And it's a very short duration, 06:03 no longer in my view than post World War II. 06:06 Yes. 06:07 I mean it was rising to power but there was the trade over, 06:09 England entered World War II with an empire, 06:13 came out nothing. 06:15 Most of its holdings either became independent 06:18 or became involved in struggles between the great powers, 06:21 and yeah, Russia was, the Soviet Union rather, 06:25 challenged America 06:27 but America has been the singular super power 06:29 for a very short period. 06:30 But there's really only been those three massive powers 06:33 in 2000 years in my view. 06:35 Yes, the British Empire, yes. 06:38 You can actually see the fulfillment of prophecies. 06:40 You say the American sanctuary 06:42 has been very, very, very short. 06:45 And what we are actually seeing today in America 06:48 is this collapse of Pax Americana, 06:51 the collapse of the... 06:53 And that's sad, but you are right. 06:54 It may... 06:56 You know, you and I think of an apocalyptic again, 06:58 that's probably very soon, 06:59 but if time goes to another 200-300 years, 07:03 I am afraid that the American moment 07:06 in the sun is going to be relatively very brief. 07:08 It shows no signs... 07:10 Don't you feel that the American place in the sun 07:12 is already... 07:13 Yes, I do. And it's not my idea. 07:16 I mean those great thinkers think so. 07:18 But that doesn't mean it's finished. 07:19 Remember Rome fell for hundreds of years. 07:22 Yes, you are right. You are right. 07:23 And this is not Rome. 07:25 Things are sped up. 07:27 But I think it's going to be very brief. 07:29 England was around for many hundreds of years. 07:32 But people are not aware of what America did. 07:35 Again, America had the opportunity 07:38 after the Second World War 07:39 to actually establish a global empire 07:42 but they didn't. 07:43 They didn't. 07:45 And I know a lot of people will challenge me on that, 07:49 but when you actually look at recession 07:50 of the Second World War, Europe was devastated. 07:54 And decolonization would not have happened 07:57 if America had not created these institutions 08:00 like World Bank and the like, 08:02 I know they are responsible for a lot of problems, 08:04 but they did create institutions that allow... 08:07 It was relatively benign. 08:09 Yes, they did create institutions 08:10 that allowed the decolonization and the freedom and the like. 08:13 We need to take note of that. 08:16 And I think the better angels 08:17 to quote Abraham Lincoln of the American presence 08:20 are explained by this continuing 08:23 Christian/Protestant sensibility. 08:26 Yes, and I can sight something to... 08:27 I don't think you can counter it in any other way. 08:29 Again to go back to Zimbabwe, 08:30 people are not aware that all the people 08:32 who fought for the liberation of Africa 08:35 were educated in Christian missions. 08:38 Without the Christian missions in Africa 08:42 our liberation of weaker from colonialism 08:45 would have been delayed. 08:46 Robert Mugabe was trained by the missionaries, 08:49 just to quote from Zimbabwe, all the African... 08:51 It went a little wrong in his case. 08:52 All the African nationalists 08:54 were educated by Christian missions. 08:56 Yeah, I know. 08:57 I've seen the path... 08:59 And my myself, I am grateful for that. 09:00 My father went to an Adventist mission, 09:02 that's how he became a Christian 09:04 and he gave me this unique heritage. 09:06 You know, and so without those Christian missionaries, 09:10 they did a lot of errors, I am not trying, 09:12 they did like all human beings. 09:14 But when you compare their errors 09:18 compared to the ones committed by the communists and the like, 09:23 there is no comparison. 09:24 And yet today, the missionaries are demonized. 09:27 And these... 09:31 Particularly the missionaries of yesteryear, 09:34 I think they gave themselves totally. 09:36 Many of them died there, and even in our own church. 09:40 Our mission service used to be a lifelong thing. 09:42 You went and you were not expected to come back. 09:45 I'm old enough to remember in Australia. 09:48 The only way the missionaries could come back 09:49 was if they had family problems, 09:51 the children needed it and, of course, 09:53 more and more, that was exercised. 09:55 There is a cemetery 09:56 actually in Solusi full of older missionaries 09:59 who went there and they never came back. 10:01 Died from malaria, some natural causes, 10:04 but they never came back. 10:05 And they actually saw, the deceased, the literacy, 10:08 in teaching Africans literacy and many things, 10:10 they actually saw the... 10:12 So there is something in the gospel 10:14 that is so dynamic. 10:15 Absolutely. It changes lives. 10:16 It does change life. 10:18 And you have recognize 10:19 that people have given of themselves selflessly, 10:21 even though day to day 10:22 there were all sorts of quicken things. 10:25 Yes, and in reading the Bible anyway, 10:26 people should know 10:27 that the whole basis of challenging 10:29 white supremacy is in the Bible. 10:31 It is as those Africans were reading the Bible, 10:34 they started to say, well, 10:36 I am just as good as you. 10:38 So many times today we talk about equality 10:40 and we attribute that to these ideologies. 10:42 But it is the Bible that taught people 10:44 about equality of human beings. 10:46 Yes, I think so. 10:47 Well, and the American Civil Rights Movement 10:49 was the proof positive 10:51 and that became sharply focused on a Christian witness 10:53 to challenge and holding justice. 10:55 And may be the problem 10:57 that we are actually having today in America 10:58 is that that Christian substance 11:00 is actually decomposing 11:03 and because of the decomposition 11:04 of that Christian substance, 11:06 people today are more fighting with each other than before. 11:11 And so for me... 11:13 To return again to what I said in the last segment, 11:16 the only hope, civilizational hope 11:19 is in reviving those primitive Christian values, 11:25 the love for your neighbor, 11:26 the love for your community, that's what we need. 11:32 Many people incline just to have 11:34 an American-centric view of history, 11:37 forget that the American experiment 11:40 came about at a time of world revolution, 11:44 the old systems were shaking and falling. 11:48 And, of course, 11:50 within a very short time of the American Revolution, 11:52 there was the French Revolution 11:54 and redo if you like of Europe. 11:58 That's worth remembering too that the first war 12:00 that America fought in 1812 12:02 was also the great fight against Napoleon 12:06 and England was otherwise occupied 12:08 and weakened enough to not prevail 12:10 in the second run around. 12:11 We are living now in an age of revolution, 12:17 and revolution as always, 12:18 it's not just fought with violence, 12:20 it's fought for principles. 12:22 And it's worth remembering 12:24 that the principle of good and evil is at play 12:27 beneath the superficiality of human revolution 12:31 and God needs to win 12:33 and His people need to be on the winning side. 12:37 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2018-09-10