Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000396B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:07 Before the break, with Greg Hamilton, 00:10 we were talking about peaceful coexistence 00:12 and probably saying things anything 00:14 but peaceful to those that want such a thing. 00:17 Let me tell you one thing that comes to mind 00:19 when you start on this topic. 00:23 Years ago, at one of our international conferences, 00:25 you mentioned one in Fort Lauderdale, 00:27 we had one in Cape Town, 00:29 and I sat down with a mullah from Iran. 00:32 I was there. Yeah. 00:33 I remember that. And I interviewed him. 00:35 I watched that interview. 00:36 And I never got enough out of it to use, 00:38 but at one point, he got impatient. 00:39 And he says, "If you had been born in Iran, 00:41 what would you have been born?" 00:43 I said, "Probably been born a Muslim." 00:44 "Fine," he says, 00:46 "And if I'd been born in America, 00:47 what would I've been?" "Probably Christian." 00:49 And he says, "Fine, let's just leave it that way." 00:53 Well, you know, there's something... 00:55 There's a half-truth in it 00:57 as far as the likelihood, but... 00:58 But that really expresses best 01:00 the whole doctrine of peaceful coexistence. 01:01 Yes, I thought it was. 01:02 And you summarized it well, yes. 01:05 And that's an interesting dynamic that you bring up Iran 01:08 because Iran seems to be under a lot of fire right now. 01:11 It seems like the people are becoming and demanding 01:14 more democratic representation, true representation, 01:18 and having a system that's not ruled by the mullahs 01:21 or everything vetoed by the mullahs, 01:23 whatever the people want. 01:25 You're leading into my entry occupation with Iran 01:27 because I don't think it's a fundamentalist country. 01:30 It's been hijacked by fundamentalist imams. 01:34 It's a very obeying Western leaning society. 01:36 Yes, it is. 01:37 And left to its own devices, I think it'll revert. 01:39 And I think for any idea, for any of our leadership 01:44 in the United States to want to bomb Iran, 01:48 and bomb civilians, and bomb... 01:51 You know, I just think it's really not the way to go. 01:54 And the US has discovered a little bit of this world 01:57 after 9/11, but I still don't think 01:59 we quite know what's going on. 02:02 Like fairly recently, within several months, 02:05 Saudi Arabia, 02:07 I think it was the Foreign Minister 02:08 of Saudi Arabia threatened to attack Iran 02:11 with nuclear weapons. 02:12 Oh, yeah. I know. 02:13 So the hatred between elements, you know... 02:16 They are politically different identities, 02:18 but they are really champions of the two factions, 02:21 major factions in Islam. 02:23 They're ready to kill each other. 02:24 So it isn't just Islam troubling Christianity 02:27 or Christian nations. 02:28 No, there's a lot of factions within Islam, I mean... 02:30 And we can play into this sort of stuff, 02:32 but I believe with Iran to my dying day, 02:35 I've been there back before when the Shah was there, 02:38 it is not, you know... 02:41 Well, it's not like Pakistan, 02:43 which is easily mobilized to fanaticism. 02:46 But that desire that you just mentioned, 02:48 that desire for peaceful coexistence is realization 02:51 that you have a right to be who you are 02:53 and I have a right to be who I am. 02:55 It sounds good. Well, it's half truth. 02:57 And in a way, it is good. 03:00 But where does it lead? Yeah. 03:03 And I think in terms of world peace, 03:07 I'm all for world peace. 03:08 But if it means world peace and we compromise 03:12 by sacrificing true religious freedom, 03:15 where does that take us? 03:17 And it also about from my ability 03:19 to write, to talk, 03:21 it means that the other side that's closing there is, 03:23 what was it? Felix? 03:25 One of the interlocutors of Paul says, "You know, 03:29 I might call you another time, you know, leave me alone." 03:31 Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. 03:33 I mean we don't want to encourage that view, 03:35 it comes naturally enough to people anyhow. 03:37 If you're wanting to spread a truth, 03:38 in our case the gospel truth, 03:40 you want people to at least be ready to hear. 03:43 Yeah. 03:44 I know the prophecy at the end of time 03:46 is that they weren't a Jewish sound doctrine, 03:48 you know, that had got itching ears 03:49 which means that most times 03:51 they want to block their hearing. 03:53 But this seems to be gaining steam 03:55 all around the world. 03:56 I remember when George W Bush was President, 03:59 the Secretary of State including under Clinton, 04:02 Madeleine Albright, and then a Colin Powell, 04:05 and Condoleezza Rice, and Hillary Clinton and onward, 04:10 you have this movement that puts forward, 04:14 and promotes, and champions this interfaith concept 04:18 of the doctrine of peaceful coexistence 04:20 as the path towards world peace. 04:22 Even Madeleine Albright wrote a whole book on it, 04:25 and John Kerry, when he was Secretary of State, 04:28 you know, decried all the nations 04:30 that seemed to be adopting these blasphemy laws, 04:34 yet at the same time was promoting 04:36 the interfaith culture as a means, 04:38 as a mediary to bring about world peace. 04:42 So he was full of contradictions. 04:44 So I find it interesting because more and more you see 04:47 the Saudi government, you see other governments 04:50 in the Middle East saying, 04:51 "Yeah, if we just follow 04:52 this doctrine of peaceful coexistence, 04:54 we will be all right." 04:55 And the other nation 04:56 that's buying into it is Israel. 04:58 I don't know if you've noticed that Israel and Saudi Arabia 05:00 are finding common cause. 05:02 What they have for quite a long time. 05:04 Yes, they have. 05:05 And so... 05:06 'Cause Egypt after the treaty particularly, but yes. 05:09 Well, even after Israel bombed Gaza into the sand 05:13 in the Christmas of 2008, Saudi Arabia applauded it. 05:18 Well, further what's going on is, 05:19 this is a term no one uses anymore, real politic. 05:23 Oh, yes. 05:24 And that can sometimes supersede 05:26 really religious ideology, 05:28 but I still believe that that if you think 05:31 from a religious point of view, 05:32 it explains a lot of what's happening 05:33 in the world today and yesterday, 05:36 more than people imagine. 05:37 But most history books just dismiss religion. 05:40 But if you notice the Israeli government, 05:41 even in Israel, if it tries to "proselytize" these days... 05:45 Well, it's a socialist secular government, 05:48 and we're back to our separation of church and state. 05:49 They frown heavily on any form of proselytization in Israel 05:53 while you're there. 05:55 Right. 05:56 And they too have bought 05:59 into this interfaith doctrine of peaceful coexistence. 06:03 And for me, I think it's problematic. 06:07 Oh, you say it keeps the peace, it keeps the status quo, 06:10 that sounds good, 06:11 you have a right to meet in your congregation, 06:14 your church, your school, your home, 06:18 but you don't have a right to beat up someone 06:21 over the head with a Bible or give them a doctrinal study, 06:24 lest you be prosecuted or put in prison. 06:27 Now I'm trying to think how this relates 06:29 and maybe I'm shifting gears slightly, 06:31 but that's fun, I've got a few minutes left. 06:35 I just finished reading 06:36 a very thought-provoking article 06:39 on what's troubled people for a generation, 06:42 the demographic remaking of Europe. 06:47 And the strong political movements 06:50 in most European countries, 06:51 nativist movements, 06:52 very much like the nativist one that just took power here... 06:55 Yes. To restrict... 06:57 Like Brexit. 06:59 Yes, to limit immigration. 07:03 Now on the face of it, you can say 07:05 this is prejudicial and onerous, 07:06 but there's a real demographic challenge 07:10 playing out in Europe and in the US 07:12 but not as easily perceived. 07:15 What's really brought it too ahead 07:18 has in particular been 07:20 immigrants from Islamic countries 07:22 whose culture and religion 07:25 are inseparable and unchangeable. 07:28 And I haven't seen any discussion 07:31 or heard anyone say anything 07:32 that has an answer to that because it's just obvious 07:35 that at some point when the demographics 07:38 pass the crucial point, 07:40 the culture and the religion will have changed. 07:42 Yeah. And so it is a real threat. 07:45 Well, I wouldn't see it as a threat. 07:46 I mean... 07:47 Well, it's a threat to the old order to whatever... 07:50 And one case I was reading 07:52 was one of these French nationalists, 07:54 actually I wish I could remember the guy's name, 07:56 his books are well read and unfortunately 07:59 have been the tutorials for even the old right 08:03 and all the other nativist... 08:04 So what you're saying is 08:05 the democratic constitutional systems in Europe, 08:07 in these European countries, 08:09 would not be able to withstand people who come in, 08:12 who want to radically change the current order. 08:15 Right. 08:16 Both religious and social, 08:18 but mostly because it's a religion 08:21 that has its social 08:23 and political structure built in. 08:25 So you don't think their constitutional systems 08:28 will be strong enough to withstand that? 08:30 No, not if that group 08:34 became a certain critical mass of society 08:36 because they will refuse to change. 08:38 So would you say that that would be a problem here 08:41 in the United States as well? 08:42 It'll be a problem anywhere. 08:44 I mean, it's not a problem 08:45 if it goes unchecked and the shift takes place. 08:48 But if you're wanting to assert an identity 08:52 you have now and to protect it against a new 08:55 and unknown identity, 08:57 then you have a serious problem. 08:58 So, you know, there's a concept 09:00 known as Dar al-Islam which Islam, 09:03 what they mean by that 09:04 is that all the world is Allah's, 09:06 therefore it has to be conquered for Allah. 09:08 And so I understand that, but to me, 09:11 the whole interfaith concept 09:14 of the doctor of peaceful coexistence, 09:16 doesn't that put a check on that? 09:19 In other words, 09:20 because they want to proselytize and... 09:22 Well, I think that now you reaching ahead 09:23 to where I'm thinking. 09:25 I think that's what they imagine. 09:26 Okay. But it won't work... 09:28 Because Islam does not proselytize by evangelization, 09:32 they grow by birthrate, okay? 09:35 So they come into a country and they grow by birthrate, 09:38 but that has overtaken our country or even Europe. 09:41 When you freeze things by peaceful coexistence, 09:45 then you have absolutely cast an eye on this tendency 09:51 for demographic overtake. 09:53 Well... 09:55 And everyone says that, like, you know, 09:58 the pagan countries or the Animus countries 10:01 felt that Christianity was a threat. 10:02 It is. 10:04 But it isn't as flexible or a guarantee 10:07 the threat as a group that will not change, 10:10 cannot change because it comes with them. 10:11 Professor Philip Jenkins in his book, 10:13 The Next Christendom from Baylor University 10:15 actually argues against that, and he says 10:17 that Christianity is actually growing much faster 10:19 than Islam is through birthrate. 10:22 And everybody is alarmed about the birthrate of Islam 10:25 and taking over the world, but actually 10:27 the growth of Christianity in a Pentecostal way 10:30 throughout the world is overtaking the world 10:32 right now as we see it. 10:34 More and more world leaders 10:36 are looking to religious leaders 10:37 to solve the problems of the world, 10:39 especially world conflicts. 10:41 And so this doctrine of peaceful coexistence 10:43 is very attractive to them. 10:45 Watch for that, 10:46 it's a trend that is worthy of your attention. 10:52 Peaceful coexistence is in some ways 10:55 the end of all things. 10:56 The Bible says that, "One day, 10:58 the wolf will lie down with the lamb." 11:02 But here on this earth, in this dispensation, 11:07 the calls are rather disingenuous. 11:09 We have the Pope of Rome saying, 11:12 "The doctrine doesn't matter, let's join together." 11:14 We have Islam, elements of it 11:17 which lie at the root of terrorism saying, 11:20 "You know, don't insult us, we won't insult you." 11:23 And you have others saying, 11:25 "The doctrine is not important." 11:28 I remember an Archbishop of Canterbury 11:29 talking about coming together, 11:31 "Put aside doctrine, but if not accepted," 11:33 he says, "we cut it off, 11:35 we'll cut you off and destroy you." 11:37 Peaceful coexistence is possible. 11:41 But it's only possible in the context of respect 11:44 and rights for others and letting others speak 11:47 and witness as the Spirit compels them. 11:52 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2018-08-02