Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break,
with Greg Hamilton,
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we were talking
about peaceful coexistence
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and probably
saying things anything
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but peaceful to those
that want such a thing.
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Let me tell you one
thing that comes to mind
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when you start on this topic.
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Years ago, at one of our
international conferences,
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you mentioned one
in Fort Lauderdale,
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we had one in Cape Town,
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and I sat down
with a mullah from Iran.
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I was there. Yeah.
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I remember that.
And I interviewed him.
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I watched that interview.
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And I never got
enough out of it to use,
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but at one
point, he got impatient.
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And he says, "If you
had been born in Iran,
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what would you have been born?"
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I said, "Probably
been born a Muslim."
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"Fine," he says,
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"And if I'd
been born in America,
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what would I've
been?" "Probably Christian."
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And he says, "Fine,
let's just leave it that way."
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Well, you know,
there's something...
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There's a half-truth in it
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as far as the likelihood, but...
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But that really expresses best
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the whole doctrine
of peaceful coexistence.
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Yes, I thought it was.
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And you summarized it well, yes.
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And that's an interesting
dynamic that you bring up Iran
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because Iran seems to be
under a lot of fire right now.
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It seems like the people
are becoming and demanding
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more democratic representation,
true representation,
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and having a system
that's not ruled by the mullahs
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or everything
vetoed by the mullahs,
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whatever the people want.
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You're leading into my
entry occupation with Iran
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because I don't think
it's a fundamentalist country.
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It's been hijacked
by fundamentalist imams.
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It's a very obeying
Western leaning society.
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Yes, it is.
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And left to its own
devices, I think it'll revert.
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And I think for any
idea, for any of our leadership
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in the United States
to want to bomb Iran,
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and bomb civilians, and bomb...
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You know, I just think
it's really not the way to go.
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And the US has discovered
a little bit of this world
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after 9/11, but
I still don't think
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we quite know what's going on.
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Like fairly recently,
within several months,
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Saudi Arabia,
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I think it was
the Foreign Minister
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of Saudi Arabia
threatened to attack Iran
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with nuclear weapons.
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Oh, yeah. I know.
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So the hatred
between elements, you know...
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They are politically
different identities,
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but they are really
champions of the two factions,
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major factions in Islam.
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They're ready
to kill each other.
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So it isn't just
Islam troubling Christianity
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or Christian nations.
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No, there's a lot of
factions within Islam, I mean...
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And we can play
into this sort of stuff,
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but I believe with
Iran to my dying day,
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I've been there back
before when the Shah was there,
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it is not, you know...
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Well, it's not like Pakistan,
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which is easily
mobilized to fanaticism.
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But that desire
that you just mentioned,
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that desire for peaceful
coexistence is realization
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that you have a
right to be who you are
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and I have a
right to be who I am.
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It sounds good.
Well, it's half truth.
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And in a way, it is good.
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But where does it lead? Yeah.
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And I think in
terms of world peace,
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I'm all for world peace.
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But if it means world
peace and we compromise
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by sacrificing
true religious freedom,
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where does that take us?
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And it also
about from my ability
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to write, to talk,
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it means that the other
side that's closing there is,
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what was it? Felix?
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One of the interlocutors
of Paul says, "You know,
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I might call you another
time, you know, leave me alone."
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Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
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I mean we don't want
to encourage that view,
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it comes naturally
enough to people anyhow.
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If you're wanting
to spread a truth,
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in our case the gospel truth,
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you want people to at
least be ready to hear.
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Yeah.
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I know the
prophecy at the end of time
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is that they weren't
a Jewish sound doctrine,
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you know, that
had got itching ears
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which means that most times
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they want to
block their hearing.
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But this seems
to be gaining steam
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all around the world.
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I remember when
George W Bush was President,
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the Secretary of State
including under Clinton,
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Madeleine Albright,
and then a Colin Powell,
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and Condoleezza Rice, and
Hillary Clinton and onward,
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you have this
movement that puts forward,
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and promotes, and champions
this interfaith concept
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of the doctrine of
peaceful coexistence
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as the path towards world peace.
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Even Madeleine Albright
wrote a whole book on it,
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and John Kerry, when
he was Secretary of State,
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you know,
decried all the nations
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that seemed to be
adopting these blasphemy laws,
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yet at the same
time was promoting
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the interfaith
culture as a means,
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as a mediary to
bring about world peace.
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So he was full
of contradictions.
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So I find it interesting
because more and more you see
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the Saudi government,
you see other governments
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in the Middle East saying,
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"Yeah, if we just follow
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this doctrine of
peaceful coexistence,
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we will be all right."
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And the other nation
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that's buying into it is Israel.
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I don't know if you've noticed
that Israel and Saudi Arabia
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are finding common cause.
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What they have
for quite a long time.
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Yes, they have.
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And so...
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'Cause Egypt after the
treaty particularly, but yes.
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Well, even after Israel
bombed Gaza into the sand
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in the Christmas of 2008,
Saudi Arabia applauded it.
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Well, further
what's going on is,
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this is a term no one
uses anymore, real politic.
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Oh, yes.
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And that can sometimes supersede
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really religious ideology,
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but I still believe
that that if you think
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from a religious point of view,
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it explains a lot
of what's happening
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in the world
today and yesterday,
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more than people imagine.
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But most history
books just dismiss religion.
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But if you notice
the Israeli government,
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even in Israel, if it tries
to "proselytize" these days...
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Well, it's a
socialist secular government,
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and we're back to our
separation of church and state.
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They frown heavily on any form
of proselytization in Israel
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while you're there.
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Right.
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And they too have bought
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into this interfaith doctrine
of peaceful coexistence.
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And for me, I
think it's problematic.
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Oh, you say it keeps the
peace, it keeps the status quo,
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that sounds good,
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you have a right to
meet in your congregation,
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your church, your
school, your home,
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but you don't have a
right to beat up someone
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over the head with a Bible
or give them a doctrinal study,
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lest you be
prosecuted or put in prison.
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Now I'm trying to
think how this relates
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and maybe I'm
shifting gears slightly,
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but that's fun, I've
got a few minutes left.
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I just finished reading
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a very thought-provoking article
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on what's troubled
people for a generation,
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the demographic
remaking of Europe.
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And the strong
political movements
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in most European countries,
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nativist movements,
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very much like the nativist
one that just took power here...
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Yes. To restrict...
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Like Brexit.
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Yes, to limit immigration.
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Now on the face
of it, you can say
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this is prejudicial and onerous,
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but there's a real
demographic challenge
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playing out in
Europe and in the US
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but not as easily perceived.
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What's really
brought it too ahead
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has in particular been
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immigrants from
Islamic countries
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whose culture and religion
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are inseparable
and unchangeable.
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And I haven't
seen any discussion
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or heard anyone say anything
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that has an answer to
that because it's just obvious
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that at some point
when the demographics
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pass the crucial point,
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the culture and the
religion will have changed.
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Yeah. And so it
is a real threat.
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Well, I wouldn't
see it as a threat.
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I mean...
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Well, it's a threat to
the old order to whatever...
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And one case I was reading
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was one of these
French nationalists,
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actually I wish I could
remember the guy's name,
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his books are well
read and unfortunately
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have been the
tutorials for even the old right
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and all the other nativist...
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So what you're saying is
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the democratic constitutional
systems in Europe,
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in these European countries,
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would not be able to
withstand people who come in,
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who want to radically
change the current order.
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Right.
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Both religious and social,
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but mostly
because it's a religion
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that has its social
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and political
structure built in.
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So you don't think
their constitutional systems
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will be strong
enough to withstand that?
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No, not if that group
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became a certain
critical mass of society
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because they
will refuse to change.
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So would you say that
that would be a problem here
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in the United States as well?
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It'll be a problem anywhere.
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I mean, it's not a problem
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if it goes unchecked
and the shift takes place.
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But if you're
wanting to assert an identity
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you have now and to
protect it against a new
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and unknown identity,
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then you have a serious problem.
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So, you know, there's a concept
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known as Dar
al-Islam which Islam,
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what they mean by that
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is that all the
world is Allah's,
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therefore it has to
be conquered for Allah.
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And so I
understand that, but to me,
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the whole interfaith concept
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of the doctor of
peaceful coexistence,
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doesn't that
put a check on that?
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In other words,
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because they want
to proselytize and...
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Well, I think that
now you reaching ahead
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to where I'm thinking.
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I think that's
what they imagine.
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Okay. But it won't work...
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Because Islam does not
proselytize by evangelization,
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they grow by birthrate, okay?
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So they come into a country
and they grow by birthrate,
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but that has overtaken
our country or even Europe.
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When you freeze things
by peaceful coexistence,
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then you have absolutely
cast an eye on this tendency
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for demographic overtake.
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Well...
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And everyone says
that, like, you know,
00:09:55.36\00:09:58.63
the pagan countries
or the Animus countries
00:09:58.66\00:10:01.30
felt that
Christianity was a threat.
00:10:01.33\00:10:02.90
It is.
00:10:02.93\00:10:04.27
But it isn't as
flexible or a guarantee
00:10:04.30\00:10:07.90
the threat as a
group that will not change,
00:10:07.94\00:10:10.07
cannot change
because it comes with them.
00:10:10.11\00:10:11.91
Professor Philip
Jenkins in his book,
00:10:11.94\00:10:13.54
The Next Christendom
from Baylor University
00:10:13.58\00:10:15.28
actually argues
against that, and he says
00:10:15.31\00:10:17.48
that Christianity is
actually growing much faster
00:10:17.51\00:10:19.68
than Islam is through birthrate.
00:10:19.71\00:10:22.42
And everybody is alarmed
about the birthrate of Islam
00:10:22.45\00:10:25.22
and taking over
the world, but actually
00:10:25.25\00:10:27.16
the growth of Christianity
in a Pentecostal way
00:10:27.19\00:10:30.59
throughout the world
is overtaking the world
00:10:30.63\00:10:32.89
right now as we see it.
00:10:32.93\00:10:34.76
More and more world leaders
00:10:34.80\00:10:36.13
are looking to religious leaders
00:10:36.16\00:10:37.50
to solve the
problems of the world,
00:10:37.53\00:10:39.57
especially world conflicts.
00:10:39.60\00:10:41.20
And so this doctrine
of peaceful coexistence
00:10:41.24\00:10:43.10
is very attractive to them.
00:10:43.14\00:10:45.31
Watch for that,
00:10:45.34\00:10:46.68
it's a trend that is
worthy of your attention.
00:10:46.71\00:10:49.68
Peaceful
coexistence is in some ways
00:10:52.61\00:10:55.22
the end of all things.
00:10:55.25\00:10:56.82
The Bible says that, "One day,
00:10:56.85\00:10:58.95
the wolf will lie
down with the lamb."
00:10:58.99\00:11:02.22
But here on this
earth, in this dispensation,
00:11:02.26\00:11:07.33
the calls are
rather disingenuous.
00:11:07.36\00:11:09.83
We have the Pope of Rome saying,
00:11:09.86\00:11:12.00
"The doctrine doesn't
matter, let's join together."
00:11:12.03\00:11:14.50
We have Islam, elements of it
00:11:14.54\00:11:17.77
which lie at the
root of terrorism saying,
00:11:17.81\00:11:20.48
"You know, don't insult
us, we won't insult you."
00:11:20.51\00:11:23.55
And you have others saying,
00:11:23.58\00:11:25.88
"The doctrine is not important."
00:11:25.91\00:11:28.15
I remember an
Archbishop of Canterbury
00:11:28.18\00:11:29.85
talking about coming together,
00:11:29.88\00:11:31.35
"Put aside doctrine,
but if not accepted,"
00:11:31.39\00:11:33.92
he says, "we cut it off,
00:11:33.96\00:11:35.62
we'll cut you
off and destroy you."
00:11:35.66\00:11:37.79
Peaceful
coexistence is possible.
00:11:37.83\00:11:41.00
But it's only possible
in the context of respect
00:11:41.03\00:11:44.63
and rights for others
and letting others speak
00:11:44.67\00:11:47.90
and witness as the
Spirit compels them.
00:11:47.94\00:11:52.24
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:11:52.27\00:11:55.68