Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is your
program bringing you news,
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views, insights
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and up-to-date information
on religious liberty.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty magazine
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and my special
guest, Tina Ramirez,
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president and
founder of Hardwired.
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And this is not your
first time on the program,
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thank you very much.
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No, thank you for
having me, Lincoln.
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It's great to be here.
You're one of my best guests.
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I don't know.
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You subdued me into silence
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when you are carrying on about
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the philosophy
and your activities.
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It's so
authoritative, what can I say?
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No. Usually, I
harass the guests.
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But I know you have a burden
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to communicate
religious freedom principles,
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not just all over the world
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but here in the United
States and to young people.
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You know, what can
you say about programs
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that you have to
try to educate that way?
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Yeah, thank you so
much for having me.
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So Hardwired is an organization
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that provides education
and training around the world,
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to establish
leadership in countries
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where religious freedom is most
at risk for this human right.
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And in the United States,
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when we first got
started as an organization
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we saw a really unique
need that younger generations
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weren't really
aware of this human right
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or why it was valuable.
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And in particular in my
travels across the country
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to different universities
and different youth groups,
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I found that a lot of students
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weren't aware of the
challenges here in America.
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Or the history in
America of religious freedom,
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or of really what's
going on around the world
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that is putting
this freedom at risk
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for others and for them here.
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Then why do you think it's so,
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I mean, that's
an obvious reality.
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You know, you could
talk to any number of people
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involved in the field
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and they all agree
that the young people
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don't really understand it,
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they're just
indifferent largely.
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Right. Why is that?
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So what we found is
that a lot of the issues
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that they would typically
hear about religious freedom
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are some, certain conservative
issues that are worth,
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traditionally
just been with things
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that they don't care about.
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Whether it's prayer
in the public schools,
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you know, it's a very,
it's an issue that kind of,
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you know, happened 50 years ago,
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but it's not
necessarily something
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that concerns them today.
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Unless it affects like a coach,
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you know, wanting to pray
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with his football
team or something.
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But for the most part it's
not a big issue that faces them,
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and so they see a lot
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and then you can
name the gamut from,
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their views are changing
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on a lot of other social issues,
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and so the more conservative
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traditional
religious freedom issues
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just don't fall in line
with their views of the world.
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But in addition,
they are more concerned
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with other social
injustices around the world,
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so other global issues like...
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I have heard that many
times. It's not that, right.
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The new generation, do want
social justice is my question.
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Right.
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So I mean, I think
some of the big issues
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that we've seen lately
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are the issues
over racial equality,
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or gender equality, and
ending sexual harassment,
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or alleviating poverty,
those are some big ones.
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But also trafficking,
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and ending the trafficking
of women and children,
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or just other,
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you know, other
injustices that you see
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and where there are so many
we can name the gamut of them.
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But these are just some
of the major ones that we see
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that are really drawing the
attention of a lot of people.
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So how you've
been able to involve
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the young people then,
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pick up on that
particular type of concern?
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How can that be related
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to the principle
of religious liberty?
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So Hardwired defends
the fundamental human right
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to freedom of thought,
conscience, religion or belief
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for all people.
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This is Article 18
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of the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights
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and it really is the
foundational human right
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for having the
conscience to even determine
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what rights should
be human rights or not,
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to have a moral compass really.
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Now, you might know more than me
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because this is a GAAP.
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I've been dealing
with this for years,
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but what was the
genesis of that UN declaration?
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Where did that come from?
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You know who was
the author of that
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and what's sourced it right now?
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Right, no,
that's a great question
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because I think
it sheds light on
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why this
freedom is so important.
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So the Universal
Declaration was written in 1948
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and when it was
written, it was written
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in the context of the
Holocaust and the World War II,
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which there were, you know,
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tens of millions
of people murdered,
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not just in the Holocaust
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but in the former
Soviet Union countries
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and then, since then, we've
seen you know, major choices.
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But do we know who
actually penned that up.
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Well, right, so
Eleanor Roosevelt,
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President Roosevelt's wife
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was a major author and
promoter of the declaration,
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but really the main
author of the declaration itself
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were two gentlemen, Rene
Cassin was very involved,
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and then when it
came to Article 18,
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Charles Malik, a Arab Christian.
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And so you had involvement
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from all the different countries
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but they were really
very involved in the writing.
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And so when you
look at Article 18,
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you look at what
happened in the Holocaust,
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you realize that
one of the things
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that they wanted to do
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and in the preamble to
the Universal Declaration
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that it says is, "That
this declaration was written
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to recognize the inherent
human dignity of all people.
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And to ensure that
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human dignity is
respected for all people."
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And one of the...
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It has many rights
that are recognized
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that are really
essential first freedom.
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So the freedom of conscience,
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if people don't
have a conscience,
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if they don't have
the freedom of belief,
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then we end up with
situations like the Holocaust,
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where they're just
simply exterminated
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because of their
beliefs being different,
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being
unacceptable, being whatever.
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You know, the
government in power at the time
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determines they
are, and I think,
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you know, post-Holocaust
at the Nuremberg Trials
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when Nazi Germany tried
to defend itself and say,
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"Well, look, we did all
this in line with our own laws."
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Justice Roberts and others said,
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"It doesn't matter if you
did it in line with your laws,
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there's a law above the law."
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And ultimately that's what
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the Universal
Declaration reflects,
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is that there is
a law above the law,
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a law in the
conscience of man that dictates
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that certain
things are simply wrong.
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And those laws
were floated on the idea
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that these were less than
fully human, not true humans.
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And so when you
look at human rights,
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right, that they
weren't fully human
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because of their religion
or because of their beliefs,
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which is, you
know, crazy to think
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that we would look at
people that way today.
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And I don't want to derail you,
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in fact, this will,
but I have to insert this.
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I've read some articles lately
that point out plain facts
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that Nazi Germany before the war
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when they were
developing these laws,
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they sent the lawyers to the US
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and they particularly studied
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the
miscegenation laws of the US.
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They said that
this was their model.
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Not that the US was on the same,
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well, we were on
the same wavelength,
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not that we were
doing those things,
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but we had a
legal structure in place
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that they took and then
turned it in a toxic direction.
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Right, and I mean,
Turkey pulled a lot of...
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What happened there
in Armenian genocide
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was pulled from what
Nazi Germany did as well.
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So a lot of...
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Not Nazi Germany at time,
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but I mean, you could see
that a lot of these ideas were,
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you know, were being shared
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between different countries too.
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That's true and what
I would say is, well,
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you know, slavery
goes back much further
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but in the modern context,
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it was eugenics
that fed all of this
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and that was a
global phenomenon.
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I'm sorry, I meant that Germany
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pulled from Armenia
genocide, not vice versa.
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Anyway, but what we
see is that young people
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obviously care about a lot
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of these
injustices in the world.
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And at the core of
what, of injustice,
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so much injustice in the world,
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is really a violation of
the freedom of conscience
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for so many people,
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so that they can't
live with the dignity,
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so obviously,
they're being trafficked
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and, you know,
the tens of billions.
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So you've got 40
to 60 million people
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as refugees in the
world, you've got a couple,
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you know, 10, 20
million trafficked,
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you've got, I mean, just
amazing numbers of people
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that are living in
horrific conditions,
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where they're denied
their most basic human rights.
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But one of the
statistics that I think
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that really shocks
a lot of young people,
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is to realize that 79%
of the world's population.
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Eight out of ten
people live in countries
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where there is absolutely
no freedom of conscience.
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And so the very freedom
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that they have to express
their beliefs as anti-religious
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as those expressions might be,
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or to be artistic,
or to fight for justice,
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their conscientious, you know,
frustrations with injustice
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in the world, it is not allowed,
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it's not permitted,
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for eight out of
ten people in the world.
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And so I think
that's really shocking
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when they would not be
able to be who they are,
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express who they are,
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live out who they are
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and, you know, 80% of the world,
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that's pretty shocking.
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There was a quote that I
may have shared on this program
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but it's been a while.
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After 9/11, I
remember reading an article
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where they
quoted from an article
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in Lemon magazine,
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speaking about 9/11 and it said,
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pretty much memorized
this statement it says,
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"We have reached the
point with the idea of freedom.
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So relatively, recent and new
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is in the
process of disappearing
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from our consciousness."
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When you say
eight out of ten, right.
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That's a horrible figure. Yeah.
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But even the 20% is
really historical anomaly,
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if you go back in the
majority of prior history.
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It's only, really in
the last few hundred years
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that this idea of
human self determinism,
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and the right of the individual
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and conscience on a larger scale
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is being given any right.
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So we got to fight harder,
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we'll drift back
into the dark ages,
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literally, I think.
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And we had a period
of individual rights,
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you know, since the Magna Carta,
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we've been moving
in that direction.
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Well, that, you can
trace it to the beginning of it
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but that was not
a good time for...
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No, no, no, but you can trace it
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from the rights of man
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and rising up and say,
1800s a big movement for that,
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but right now, you
know, 10 years ago,
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we've said this
before, 10 years ago,
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the Pew Research Center said
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that 67% of the world's
population lived in countries
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where there was
egregious violations
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or repression of this
freedom of conscience.
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Now it's 80.
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Now, it's 79% just in 10 years.
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So in 10 years
we've had this trajectory
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that's not good for
conscience human freedom.
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And for young people today,
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one of the things
that we recognize is that,
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to maintain your convictions
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about all this
injustice in the world,
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you have to have the
freedom of conscience.
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And if we don't
make a stand today,
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you will not have the freedom
to do that in the future.
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And so we at Hardwired
have started a campaign
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called Journey for Freedom
to help young people recognize
00:11:00.19\00:11:02.92
and have real
conversations about
00:11:02.96\00:11:04.29
what that freedom means for them
00:11:04.33\00:11:05.66
and for people around the world.
00:11:05.69\00:11:07.20
Yeah, I like the
idea because it's journey,
00:11:07.23\00:11:08.93
it's something moving,
it's not a static thing.
00:11:08.96\00:11:12.03
It needs to develop in a
positive direction, right?
00:11:12.07\00:11:14.37
Yeah, and it
doesn't, it won't just end,
00:11:14.40\00:11:16.40
you know, it won't just end
00:11:16.44\00:11:17.77
when the journey campaign ends,
00:11:17.81\00:11:19.17
but right now
Hardwired has started a campaign
00:11:19.21\00:11:21.38
called Journey for freedom.
00:11:21.41\00:11:22.74
And we are inviting
young people and communities
00:11:22.78\00:11:25.85
across the country to join us,
00:11:25.88\00:11:28.15
to challenge
themselves every month
00:11:28.18\00:11:30.75
to take one step
closer to understanding
00:11:30.79\00:11:33.32
what freedom of
conscience or religion is
00:11:33.36\00:11:35.26
and how they can
defend it for others,
00:11:35.29\00:11:36.76
so to become
essentially ambassadors
00:11:36.79\00:11:38.43
for this freedom
in their communities
00:11:38.46\00:11:40.10
that we can
preserve it for others.
00:11:40.13\00:11:41.46
And how you're
connecting with the young people
00:11:41.50\00:11:42.83
in the
communities, through churches,
00:11:42.86\00:11:45.13
and social
organizations, schools?
00:11:45.17\00:11:47.97
So Hardwired, you can
go to Hardwired's website,
00:11:48.00\00:11:51.37
at hardwiredglobal.org,
00:11:51.41\00:11:54.14
and on the home page
00:11:54.18\00:11:55.58
is the campaign
journey for freedom.
00:11:55.61\00:11:57.35
And they can download a map
00:11:57.38\00:11:59.38
and anyone whether
they're in a church,
00:11:59.41\00:12:01.35
youth group, or on
their college campus,
00:12:01.38\00:12:04.89
at home, in their schools,
00:12:04.92\00:12:07.06
you know, we could have
entire schools doing this,
00:12:07.09\00:12:08.89
but you can download a map
00:12:08.92\00:12:10.26
and then you
map out your journey
00:12:10.29\00:12:11.63
and every month
you get a new challenge
00:12:11.66\00:12:12.99
when you sign up.
00:12:13.03\00:12:14.36
And so we're in step eight now,
00:12:14.40\00:12:16.03
we're, you know, celebrating
Martin Luther King's birthday
00:12:16.06\00:12:19.20
and this idea of honor a
hero for religious freedom.
00:12:19.23\00:12:22.60
So there are a lot of
heroes of religious freedom
00:12:22.64\00:12:24.34
around the world
whether it's Thomas Jefferson
00:12:24.37\00:12:26.21
or you know, Patrick Henry
00:12:26.24\00:12:28.11
or whoever it
might be in the world,
00:12:28.14\00:12:30.88
Mahatma Gandhi, I don't know.
00:12:30.91\00:12:32.25
So we're
celebrating heroes this month
00:12:32.28\00:12:35.78
but you can do any of
the 18 challenge steps,
00:12:35.82\00:12:38.95
any time between now
and December of 2018.
00:12:38.99\00:12:40.99
That's a good idea.
00:12:41.02\00:12:42.36
Yeah, I mean,
there's no question
00:12:42.39\00:12:43.73
that heroic figures can inspire.
00:12:43.76\00:12:45.49
I've read an
editorial once about
00:12:45.53\00:12:47.40
the Great Man theory of history,
00:12:47.43\00:12:48.96
which I used to
subscribe to more than that,
00:12:49.00\00:12:51.97
and you can't
dismiss the great men,
00:12:52.00\00:12:53.77
but it takes a
lot of men and women
00:12:53.80\00:12:56.50
responding to make the
difference, doesn't it?
00:12:56.54\00:12:58.17
It does, it
takes a ripple effect,
00:12:58.21\00:13:00.71
so one person
can start that ripple
00:13:00.74\00:13:02.08
but you want lots of voices
to really create that encore.
00:13:02.11\00:13:05.85
So in the journey,
00:13:05.88\00:13:08.25
every month, there's
a different challenge
00:13:08.28\00:13:10.59
and we have 18 challenges,
which reflects Article 18
00:13:10.62\00:13:13.89
of the Universal Declaration
of Human Rights and this is...
00:13:13.92\00:13:15.66
Yeah, that's, I
wondered why 18...
00:13:15.69\00:13:17.63
Yeah, so 18 steps
00:13:17.66\00:13:19.16
and this is the 70th anniversary
00:13:19.19\00:13:20.66
this year of the Declaration,
00:13:20.70\00:13:22.30
it's also the 20th anniversary
00:13:22.33\00:13:23.67
of the US policy
on religious freedom.
00:13:23.70\00:13:26.13
So we're trying
to make this year
00:13:26.17\00:13:27.50
where we will really
start to have real conversations
00:13:27.54\00:13:30.67
about religious freedom
with people across the country.
00:13:30.71\00:13:33.91
The Bible says, "Now
is the acceptable day,"
00:13:33.94\00:13:35.98
right, so let's start from here.
00:13:36.01\00:13:37.35
Yeah, so it's today.
00:13:37.38\00:13:38.71
We will be back after a
short break, stay with us.
00:13:38.75\00:13:40.42