Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break with guest,
Christopher Steed, we were
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musing about the role of
the U.S. in history and its
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self-perception, and we
had arrived at the big moment;
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September 11, 2001.
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So many things changed.
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At the very least, if you look
at it as a point of history,
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it was a marker.
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There was before, like...
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The influence of Christianity
is undeniable on history.
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There's before Christ and
after Christ, Anno Domini.
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But for the U.S., I think
it's before 9/11 and after 9/11.
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And so many of our laws, while
they weren't openly changed,
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they were modified in
dangerous ways that really
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don't give us the freedoms
that we imagine we have.
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Do you remember 9/11 at all?
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I remember bits of it.
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I mean, I've heard
stories from when I was little.
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Some embarrassing, some not.
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Well the one
that I want to tell...
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I was giving you the
chance to tell your thoughts
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when you were two and a half.
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Not much older.
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We tried to keep it
from you, as many parents.
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It was shocking to see it on TV.
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And I can't
remember letting you see it,
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but it was everywhere, so
you must have seen something.
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And I remember
once you were in your
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car seat in the back of the car.
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You know, the child
seat where you're buckled in,
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and all the rest.
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And the window was
down. It must have been...
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I don't know why
the window was down.
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Well maybe you rolled it down.
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And as we stopped at the lights,
you called across to the car
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opposite us, you said,
"There's buildings been falling
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and people dying,
and all the rest."
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I don't remember that one.
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And this little
kid could barely talk.
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And he's mumbling out
that this has happened.
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We thought, "This is amazing.
He wants to tell people."
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But there's no question it
was a shock to the whole world,
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but particularly to the U.S.
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Which, imagine, still
thinks that it's largely immune
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to outside attack.
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We go and fight wars elsewhere,
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but for them to come
here, it couldn't be.
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But it was.
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So something that I want to
repeat here for our viewers,
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because I just read
it again the other day.
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But at the time, I
read in Harper's Magazine
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an article that quoted
from a then recent issue of
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Le Monde
Magazine, in Paris, France.
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A psychologist or a social
scientist was writing about it,
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and he said, "The
event was not just real,
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the violent and the visceral
disaster that we all saw."
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He says, if it had just been
real, you know, we see killing
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on the news
accounts, and of course movies,
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gratuitous killing, and we
see videos from World War II,
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and the Holocaust, and so on.
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We're sort of immune to that.
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He says, "Violence in its excess
can become sort of banal."
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Commonplace, can't it?
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~ It can. - You get used to it.
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Nowadays, like with the new
video games that are coming out.
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I go to GameStop
at the mall sometimes.
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I've gone with you.
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I mean, I've looked at
some of the games there,
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even the demo games...
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I mean, there was one...
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I don't remember the full title,
but it's Advanced Warfare.
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And you go through,
it's a war simulation game.
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And you just blow
people's heads off.
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Now that's very
bad on its own level.
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There's other studies
shown that it desensitizes
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young people, particularly, to
violence against other people.
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But you're right. It's
all around us, isn't it?
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And this fellow in
his article said, he says,
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"Violence can be sort of banal."
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He says, "No, it
was worse than real.
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It was symbolic."
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And these great towers,
symbols of our technology,
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of our civilization, we see it
as bigger and better than most,
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if not all, and to see
it just collapsing down.
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That's a terribly
debilitating moment.
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Then later in the article he
said something, I think I can
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remember the
sequence, it's phenomenal.
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He says, "We have reached the
point when the idea of freedom
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itself, an idea
relatively recent and new,
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is in the process of fading
away and being replaced by
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its polar opposite; that
of a terror of security."
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And that's
really what's happening.
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And as that happens, I
see religious, true religious
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freedom becoming a
victim of this new dynamic.
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In a security state we
can't afford unrestricted
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religious liberty, the
free market of spiritual ideas,
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and me talking to someone else.
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Like you were saying earlier,
talking to someone in the
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parking lot about
your Adventist faith.
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That could more recently be
seen as potentially dangerous
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in a post 9/11 world.
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- You think? ~ I mean, yeah.
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I mean, talking in a group.
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I mean, one on one
talking I wouldn't see it
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as a potential danger,
but to be talking, like,
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getting a secret
group together in a house.
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I mean, I could see
that as a potential danger.
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But just talking in a parking
lot, I mean, yes people would
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see that as a
danger, but at the same time
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I wouldn't consider it
as a threat to security.
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Yeah, none of us
know quite the future.
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Many people fear, I
know you've heard talk about
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martial law in the U.S.
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~ I have. - Which
has happened before.
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One of the hurricanes down in
Florida, I think, in the 1930's,
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they declared that
whole state under martial law.
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And I don't know
how many they killed,
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but there was an order to shoot
looters on sight, for example.
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That's martial law.
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And usually curfews.
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You're not allowed
out after a certain time.
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Keep to your house, or
else you're arrested or worse.
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But as we discussed it, in
our day it's more of a national
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or a generalized martial law.
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And I think there's plenty
of evidence that such a thing
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would happen if
we had another 9/11.
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And who knows, you know.
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There's plenty of bad
players that would like to do
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something like that again.
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But they're scared, probably.
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Well I wouldn't say scared.
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I'd say they're intimidated.
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That's the idea of the military.
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They try to
intimidate them, of course.
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But back to what
you said, Christopher.
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Meeting in the home.
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How would you think that
religion and religious worship
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would be carried on
at a time of martial law?
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I think religion and religious
worship should be carried on,
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I guess, in homes, but as
well in each person's life.
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Like, I know the Bible says,
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"Where two or more
are gathered, I am there."
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And, "Don't forsake the
gathering of yourself together."
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I mean, for example, I know,
I've heard stories from friends
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who have been missionaries
meeting in a home where people
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will come in, or
writing a letter to a relative
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and, like, putting
a Bible verse in it.
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I mean, you can
still worship like that.
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But worshiping together
gives a sense of community
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and a sense of, you know,
I can rely on these people.
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Like, if let's
say I run out of food.
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I have this community
where I am where I can go to my
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neighbor and say, "Look, I
ran out of..., I need flour.
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Would you be willing?"
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And so worshiping in the
home would give you that sense
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of a community.
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You're right, and
you've picked on something
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that we've never
spoken about here before.
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But I've thought about
it before, that a religious
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community is a
support structure.
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And the New Testament says
they had all things in common
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and they cared first for
the widows and the orphans
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within their group.
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Now you think about martial law.
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Most people don't
understand how it works.
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There are several
things that they do.
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There is a curfew, a
time where you're not allowed
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out of your house.
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And then most important, one
of the most important things is,
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they restrict large
gatherings of people.
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Now a church
service, by definition, is a
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large gathering of people.
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Now I don't think for a
minute if the U.S. declared,
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military declared martial
law that they would restrict,
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say, Baptists,
Episcopal, Catholic gatherings.
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But then you get
down to some others,
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would they
restrict Jehovah Witnesses?
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Would they restrict Muslims?
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- Probably. ~ Most likely.
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Would they restrict a
little offshoot group,
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like this one recently that
the guy publicly burned a Koran
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as an act of provocation?
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Or others that attend
military funerals and call them
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murderers, and all the rest?
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The government easily
sees that as disruptive.
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Would they allow
Seventh-day Adventists
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who have an
apocalyptic end-time view?
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Would they allow
us to meet? Right?
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So there's a good
chance that some churches,
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and perhaps even ours,
wouldn't be allowed to meet
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regularly in a
time of martial law.
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Well that's very bad.
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Now you've
suggested meet in the homes.
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But in a martial law, you're
in exactly the same thing.
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Because they
restrict the number of people
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that can meet together.
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It's usually very
small, five or ten.
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I mean, even then
those five or ten people,
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the next day
those five or ten people
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could have
meetings in their homes.
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~ Well, you're right. -
And have different people.
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And then those five or
ten, like during the week...
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Each person like in a
small village, I'm thinking...
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Let's take
Hagerstown, for example.
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Let's take our community.
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We could have a meeting at our
house, let's say, this weekend.
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You know, we'll
take, we'll take...
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Let's say they limit the people
in the house to ten people.
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So there's us four, now
three because Kristen's gone
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out to school, so three
of us plus as many others...
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Very good thinking, son.
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And I have great hope.
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It's through the
inter-communication
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and networking that a
faith can be carried on.
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And in spite of what I said,
that they likely would restrict
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certain
churches, and maybe ours,
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and that could be the
real threat of something
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like martial law,
true faith can carry on.
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Can't it?
00:10:32.93\00:10:34.26
I believe true
faith, no matter what,
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no matter what the situation,
will always be able to carry on,
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will be able to push
through, I mean, will be able to
00:10:38.50\00:10:42.17
get through anything
that you put up against it.
00:10:42.20\00:10:45.21
President George Bush Jr.
once went on the public airwaves
00:10:48.11\00:10:52.91
and said that God
had blessed America,
00:10:52.95\00:10:56.12
and He couldn't have
blessed more deserving people.
00:10:56.15\00:10:58.75
I think his intention
was good, but the dynamic
00:10:59.42\00:11:01.69
was a little mixed up.
00:11:01.72\00:11:03.06
But there's no question,
when you look at the history
00:11:03.09\00:11:06.70
of the United States as
it moved into the modern era
00:11:06.73\00:11:09.50
from its first beginnings,
which were not all religious
00:11:10.40\00:11:12.90
but included many people
escaping religious persecution,
00:11:12.93\00:11:16.87
and then the constitution
protecting through the
00:11:17.07\00:11:20.01
separation of church and
state the practice of religion,
00:11:20.04\00:11:22.91
there is no question that
the United States has been
00:11:23.24\00:11:26.85
used in a fairly unique way
to protect freedom of expression
00:11:26.88\00:11:32.79
and freedom of religion.
00:11:33.09\00:11:34.56
I know all of us would
pray that this continue.
00:11:35.49\00:11:38.89
This is a time of revolution,
and things being overturned,
00:11:38.99\00:11:43.06
and freedoms restricted.
00:11:43.10\00:11:45.40
But for the United
States, let freedom ring.
00:11:45.87\00:11:49.67
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:11:50.21\00:11:53.71