Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000379A
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00:25 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:27 This is your program that brings news, views, updates, 00:31 and insight into the religious liberty situation 00:34 in the U.S. and around the world. 00:36 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of, Liberty Magazine. 00:40 And my guest on this program is my son, Christopher Steed. 00:44 Still a teenager, a young man. 00:46 And I've got you here for a reason. 00:48 If it was just a matter of emotion, 00:52 I could have you on every program. 00:53 That would be... Any dad would like that. 00:56 But, you know, we're always concerned to show 01:00 and to illustrate that young people can move in and 01:03 understand religious liberty and become 01:05 activists for religious liberty. 01:06 So you're a good stand-in for your whole generation. 01:10 But as far as this program, let's talk a little bit about 01:13 the United States. 01:14 You know, my accent gives me away. 01:16 There's a story in the Old Testament where 01:19 between the tribes of Israel there was a dispute, 01:21 bloody dispute. 01:23 And they wanted to find the enemy, and so they would 01:27 have them say a certain word. 01:29 And if they mispronounced it slightly, which one side 01:34 would always do, then they would cut their head off. 01:36 And I'm a bit like that. 01:37 I hope I don't lose my head. 01:39 I always betray my Australian origins by my accent. 01:42 But you're local born and bred. 01:47 Even though I know emotionally you connect 01:49 very well to Australia. 01:52 But let's talk about the United States. 01:54 This is the land, home of the free and the brave, right? 02:00 That could be true. 02:01 It could be true of any country. 02:03 What do you think really characterizes the United States, 02:08 to set it apart? 02:09 And every country is unique in its own way, 02:11 but what are the claims to fame of the United States? 02:14 I remember, going back on a history class, 02:17 I remember my history professor, back when I was actually in 02:21 public school at this time, and he said, "The United States, 02:26 in my opinion, one of my favorite things about the 02:29 United States is how it's a melting pot for all people, 02:32 all religions, all colors, all whatever you want it, 02:36 everybody is here. 02:37 You can go to Walmart and see people from India, China, 02:39 Japan, Russia, Germany, even Antarctica." 02:42 I mean, I've noticed it even now traveling with my father a lot, 02:47 traveling with my family, I mean, even in school 02:49 traveling with the choirs. 02:52 Going to different churches and seeing how many different people 02:55 are in those churches. 02:57 I mean, even in my home town of Hagerstown, 02:59 I'm walking through Walmart and I'm seeing 03:02 Muslim ladies dressed in the full burqas, 03:05 I'm seeing Sikh fathers with their little boys 03:07 with their headgear on. 03:10 And I see that as, like, the U.S.'s claim, as you can say, 03:14 claim to fame. 03:15 How it's just a melting pot for every person and every religion, 03:20 every way of life. 03:22 That's true. 03:23 It's not unique to the U.S., but I think as it came into being 03:30 it was more unique than now. 03:32 Like Australia is a more recent country, and as you know 03:34 it's fairly, and certainly since World War II, 03:38 become a real melting pot of all different cultures. 03:41 Brazil is one that comes to mind 03:43 that's pretty multi-cultural. 03:45 But when the U.S. was formed that was a rather unusual 03:49 sort of an idea where all the different groups; 03:55 some religious, some entrepreneurial; 03:57 from Holland, and France, and England, and Germany... 04:02 You can sort of see, you know, you and I, 04:05 we're very aware of Pennsylvania nearby. 04:07 - It's the Deutsch - Pennsylvania Dutch. 04:09 - It's the Deutsch, the Germans. ~ The Germans. 04:11 There's German areas, and then the Scandinavians 04:14 up in Minnesota. 04:15 Yes, I think that has been a characteristic of the U.S. 04:20 But more than that, in my view this was all subsumed... 04:25 That's probably a word you haven't used. 04:27 ...into a general Americanism. 04:32 At this late point I don't think they think that 04:34 they're Germans, or whatever. 04:37 And to be American is not necessarily an ethnic thing 04:43 or any particular culture. 04:47 I mean, I'm am apple pie. You know, as American. 04:50 But you know what? 04:51 The apple pie, cheesecake, or pumpkin pie. 04:54 But I don't think it's any of those things. 04:56 It's just sort of a shared vision, isn't it? 04:58 A freedom. 05:00 Unfortunately, part of it was, you know, manifest destiny. 05:04 I remember hearing about it. 05:05 It's sort of a view that they twisted from the early Puritans. 05:10 It was God's, sort of, charter for them to 05:14 take over the whole continent. 05:16 And I think now it's gone a little further. 05:18 Take over the whole world. 05:21 Some of the Christian right have a sort of global view 05:23 as to why Israel is on our view, and so on. 05:27 But I think America is a country that has a sense of destiny 05:31 more than most, isn't it? 05:33 I think so, yes. 05:35 I see America as a place where people come to not only 05:39 start their new lives, but as well to better themselves. 05:42 Like, I have a friend, I think she told me it was her 05:45 grandfather moved to the U.S. from somewhere 05:50 either in the Middle East or Europe. 05:52 In Europe he was not a wealthy family. 05:56 Came to the U.S., went to school, got his degrees in, 06:01 I believe, civil engineering. 06:04 Now her grandfather is retired, her father has taken over, 06:08 and he's one of the top NASA people. 06:14 Just because his father came from another country 06:16 and he decided to create his own living here. 06:20 And it's the land of opportunities. 06:24 And it's been so for a lot of people. 06:27 Do you think religion has played a role in this 06:29 sense of opportunity and sense of destiny? 06:31 I do see it. 06:33 And putting this back into religious liberty, 06:35 how we have, here in the United States, we have all religions 06:39 from every corner of the world 06:41 worshiping all in the same country. 06:43 I mean, in some countries like in China, I know it's 06:47 strictly Buddhist. 06:48 Or in North Korea... 06:50 ~ Confucianism in China. - Confucianism in China. 06:53 You know, in every country there are sprinklings of 06:55 all religions, but there is a monolithic religious cultural 07:00 identity in many countries, yes. 07:01 But in the U.S. every religion has its right to worship. 07:06 It's always granted but it's worth remembering, 07:10 that it's a fact of history, other than very few pockets... 07:16 Interestingly one is near where you and I live around Baltimore. 07:20 ...America was a Protestant culture. 07:25 In the Louisiana purchase... 07:28 Remember that? 07:29 You studied that part of history? 07:30 What was that? 07:32 It was when they purchased Louisiana from, I believe, 07:33 it was the French. 07:35 Yeah, well that Louisiana purchase under 07:37 Thomas Jefferson when he was president 07:39 pretty much doubled the size of the U.S. 07:41 And that would have brought in quite a lot of Catholics, 07:46 French Catholics, in Mississippi and places like that. 07:50 But there's no question that still overall this was 07:54 a Protestant sensibility in the United States. 07:57 Even the Constitution with the separation of church and state 08:01 and its religious freedom for all, it's a civil construct 08:05 not a religious government. 08:07 But it really derived from a Protestant view of freedom. 08:11 That was hard earned. 08:12 And there was a deep suspicion of the old problems 08:17 with Catholicism and the blending of church and state. 08:20 And even something as nefarious as the Ku Klux Klan, 08:26 you know, which is largely disappeared now, 08:29 or we hope it doesn't re-appear, 08:30 they weren't just racist and violent. 08:33 They were aiming at a white Christian America. 08:39 And they were persecuting often Catholics and Jews 08:43 just as violently and aggressively 08:45 as they were blacks. 08:47 And that's not to be endorsed in any shape, form, or manner. 08:50 It just illustrates the perception that this 08:53 was a Protestant country. 08:56 Well, you know, we've moved with the times. 08:58 And I think the principle of religious liberty can apply, 09:02 not can, should apply to Roman Catholics, 09:05 Muslims, anyone. 09:07 I'll test you again. 09:09 I don't think you know the answer to this. 09:10 Have you heard of the Treaty of Tripoli? 09:13 I've heard you talk about it. 09:15 You've heard me talk about it. 09:16 You've been giving me, as we drive or as we fly, or 09:20 when we travel, you've given me blips of history lessons. 09:23 And I remember hearing you mention it once or twice, 09:28 but I don't remember exactly what it is. 09:30 Well that was the first foreign treaty that the U.S. had. 09:33 And it followed on from really the first foreign war. 09:37 Because it was under George Washington's presidency 09:43 and it was settled under President Adams, 09:47 but the U.S. didn't have a navy to speak of. 09:50 And as they sent ships into Europe and the Mediterranean, 09:55 an area known as the Barbary coast which included Tripoli, 09:59 which is modern day Libya, there were pirates, 10:04 Islamic pirates, that were going out and were sinking the ships 10:07 and taking prisoners. 10:09 And they would either keep them as slaves 10:12 or hold them for ransom. 10:15 And America just couldn't deal with this. 10:18 So they built a navy to go fight the Barbary pirates. 10:21 And it was rather an inconclusive fighting. 10:23 I've got a book on it that's recently come out. 10:25 I wish I could remember the name, but anyone can go to a 10:28 bookstore and ask for the latest book on Barbary pirates. 10:32 It's most interesting. 10:34 Like, it tells the story there of Adams and Jefferson, 10:38 both government functionaries not yet presidents, 10:41 they sat down with the ambassador for Tripoli. 10:44 And they said, you know, "We don't want you to take 10:48 these captives and these slaves anymore." 10:51 You know, Americans slaves? 10:53 Because as they were talking at one stage, 10:56 the U.S. ambassador, rather, was talking to the ruler of Tripoli, 11:02 there was a Christian slave, a white American Christian slave, 11:07 waving the cooling fan over his head. 11:12 It's almost unbelievable that this was going on at that time. 11:15 And you know what the guys answer to them was? 11:17 The ambassador? 11:18 He says, "Well my holy book says that I can enslave non-Muslims." 11:22 And he says, "That's just fine with me." 11:25 So America had to form a navy. They fought them a bit. 11:30 It at least showed them that America 11:31 is not to be trifled with. 11:32 And they signed the treaty called, The Treaty of Tripoli. 11:35 And very tellingly, it says there that America is not 11:40 founded on any religion, and it is just as much a country 11:43 for Muslims and Christians and Hindus, and all the rest. 11:47 So it's a secular country, there's no question. 11:50 But it was a Protestant culture. 11:54 And I believe that its secular government 11:56 exemplified Protestant views of freedom of religion 12:00 and open practice. 12:02 So you've inherited a pretty good history 12:06 in this country, right? 12:07 I have. 12:08 So how do you think as an American we can keep 12:11 these freedoms going? 12:13 Well right now I see as an American citizen myself, 12:19 you know, religious freedom, freedom to speak, 12:22 as long as it's nothing that's violent or racist bigotry, 12:27 or anything like that, these freedoms are given to us 12:32 in the Constitution and other documents. 12:36 And I mean that, you know, each president should hold 12:39 those truths to be as they are: truths. 12:42 ~ Self-evident. - Self-evident, yes. 12:46 So in other words, stay by our founding principles, 12:48 not change them. 12:50 And I wish I could remember what founding father, 12:52 but he says, "If you change, take away liberties 12:54 according to the emergency of moment," 12:58 he says, "those that take them away for a momentary safety 13:02 deserve no other safety nor freedom." 13:08 Because it's precisely at the moment of danger and threat 13:13 that a good principle protects you. 13:14 You don't change the principle when it gets dangerous. 13:17 ~ Yep. 13:19 And we're still in the middle of that testing time, aren't we? 13:21 You were born before 2001, but not much before. 13:27 But most of your life has been after the twin tower of 9/11, 13:33 twin towers coming down. 13:34 And legally, many many things have changed. 13:37 And attitudes towards religious freedom have changed. 13:41 - Not in good ways always. ~ No, not always. 13:43 Let's take a break, come back. 13:46 We'll come back after 9/11 and pick it up. 13:49 Stay with us. |
Revised 2018-03-01