Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is your program that
brings news, views, updates,
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and insight into the
religious liberty situation
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in the U.S. and
around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of, Liberty Magazine.
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And my guest on this program
is my son, Christopher Steed.
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Still a teenager, a young man.
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And I've got you
here for a reason.
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If it was just a
matter of emotion,
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I could have you
on every program.
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That would be...
Any dad would like that.
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But, you know, we're
always concerned to show
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and to illustrate that
young people can move in and
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understand
religious liberty and become
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activists for religious liberty.
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So you're a good stand-in
for your whole generation.
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But as far as this program,
let's talk a little bit about
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the United States.
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You know, my
accent gives me away.
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There's a story in
the Old Testament where
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between the tribes of
Israel there was a dispute,
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bloody dispute.
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And they wanted to find
the enemy, and so they would
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have them say a certain word.
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And if they mispronounced
it slightly, which one side
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would always do, then
they would cut their head off.
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And I'm a bit like that.
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I hope I don't lose my head.
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I always betray my
Australian origins by my accent.
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But you're local born and bred.
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Even though I know
emotionally you connect
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very well to Australia.
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But let's talk
about the United States.
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This is the land, home of
the free and the brave, right?
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That could be true.
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It could be true of any country.
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What do you think really
characterizes the United States,
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to set it apart?
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And every country is
unique in its own way,
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but what are the claims
to fame of the United States?
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I remember, going
back on a history class,
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I remember my history professor,
back when I was actually in
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public school at this time,
and he said, "The United States,
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in my opinion, one of my
favorite things about the
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United States is how it's
a melting pot for all people,
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all religions, all colors,
all whatever you want it,
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everybody is here.
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You can go to Walmart and
see people from India, China,
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Japan, Russia,
Germany, even Antarctica."
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I mean, I've noticed it even now
traveling with my father a lot,
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traveling with my
family, I mean, even in school
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traveling with the choirs.
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Going to different churches and
seeing how many different people
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are in those churches.
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I mean, even in my
home town of Hagerstown,
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I'm walking through
Walmart and I'm seeing
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Muslim ladies
dressed in the full burqas,
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I'm seeing Sikh
fathers with their little boys
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with their headgear on.
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And I see that as, like, the
U.S.'s claim, as you can say,
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claim to fame.
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How it's just a melting pot for
every person and every religion,
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every way of life.
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That's true.
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It's not unique to the U.S., but
I think as it came into being
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it was more unique than now.
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Like Australia is a more
recent country, and as you know
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it's fairly, and
certainly since World War II,
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become a real melting pot
of all different cultures.
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Brazil is one that comes to mind
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that's pretty multi-cultural.
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But when the U.S. was
formed that was a rather unusual
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sort of an idea where
all the different groups;
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some religious,
some entrepreneurial;
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from Holland, and France,
and England, and Germany...
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You can sort of
see, you know, you and I,
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we're very aware of
Pennsylvania nearby.
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- It's the Deutsch
- Pennsylvania Dutch.
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- It's the Deutsch,
the Germans. ~ The Germans.
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There's German areas,
and then the Scandinavians
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up in Minnesota.
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Yes, I think that has been
a characteristic of the U.S.
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But more than that, in my
view this was all subsumed...
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That's probably a
word you haven't used.
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...into a general Americanism.
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At this late point I
don't think they think that
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they're Germans, or whatever.
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And to be American is not
necessarily an ethnic thing
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or any particular culture.
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I mean, I'm am apple
pie. You know, as American.
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But you know what?
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The apple pie,
cheesecake, or pumpkin pie.
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But I don't think
it's any of those things.
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It's just sort of a
shared vision, isn't it?
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A freedom.
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Unfortunately, part of it
was, you know, manifest destiny.
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I remember hearing about it.
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It's sort of a view that they
twisted from the early Puritans.
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It was God's, sort
of, charter for them to
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take over the whole continent.
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And I think now it's
gone a little further.
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Take over the whole world.
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Some of the Christian
right have a sort of global view
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as to why Israel is
on our view, and so on.
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But I think America is a country
that has a sense of destiny
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more than most, isn't it?
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I think so, yes.
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I see America as a place
where people come to not only
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start their new lives, but
as well to better themselves.
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Like, I have a friend, I
think she told me it was her
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grandfather moved to
the U.S. from somewhere
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either in the
Middle East or Europe.
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In Europe he was
not a wealthy family.
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Came to the U.S., went to
school, got his degrees in,
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I believe, civil engineering.
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Now her grandfather is retired,
her father has taken over,
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and he's one of
the top NASA people.
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Just because his father
came from another country
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and he decided to
create his own living here.
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And it's the
land of opportunities.
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And it's been so
for a lot of people.
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Do you think religion
has played a role in this
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sense of opportunity
and sense of destiny?
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I do see it.
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And putting this back
into religious liberty,
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how we have, here in the United
States, we have all religions
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from every corner of the world
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worshiping all
in the same country.
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I mean, in some countries
like in China, I know it's
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strictly Buddhist.
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Or in North Korea...
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~ Confucianism in
China. - Confucianism in China.
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You know, in every
country there are sprinklings of
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all religions, but there is
a monolithic religious cultural
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identity in many countries, yes.
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But in the U.S. every religion
has its right to worship.
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It's always granted
but it's worth remembering,
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that it's a fact of history,
other than very few pockets...
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Interestingly one is near where
you and I live around Baltimore.
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...America was a
Protestant culture.
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In the Louisiana purchase...
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Remember that?
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You studied
that part of history?
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What was that?
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It was when they purchased
Louisiana from, I believe,
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it was the French.
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Yeah, well that
Louisiana purchase under
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Thomas Jefferson
when he was president
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pretty much doubled
the size of the U.S.
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And that would have brought
in quite a lot of Catholics,
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French Catholics, in Mississippi
and places like that.
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But there's no question
that still overall this was
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a Protestant sensibility
in the United States.
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Even the Constitution with the
separation of church and state
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and its religious freedom
for all, it's a civil construct
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not a religious government.
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But it really derived from
a Protestant view of freedom.
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That was hard earned.
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And there was a deep
suspicion of the old problems
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with Catholicism and the
blending of church and state.
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And even something as
nefarious as the Ku Klux Klan,
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you know, which is
largely disappeared now,
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or we hope it doesn't re-appear,
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they weren't just
racist and violent.
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They were aiming at a
white Christian America.
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And they were persecuting
often Catholics and Jews
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just as
violently and aggressively
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as they were blacks.
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And that's not to be endorsed
in any shape, form, or manner.
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It just illustrates
the perception that this
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was a Protestant country.
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Well, you know,
we've moved with the times.
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And I think the principle
of religious liberty can apply,
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not can, should
apply to Roman Catholics,
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Muslims, anyone.
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I'll test you again.
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I don't think you
know the answer to this.
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Have you heard of
the Treaty of Tripoli?
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I've heard you talk about it.
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You've heard me talk about it.
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You've been giving me,
as we drive or as we fly, or
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when we travel, you've given
me blips of history lessons.
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And I remember hearing
you mention it once or twice,
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but I don't
remember exactly what it is.
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Well that was the first foreign
treaty that the U.S. had.
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And it followed on from
really the first foreign war.
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Because it was under
George Washington's presidency
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and it was settled
under President Adams,
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but the U.S. didn't
have a navy to speak of.
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And as they sent ships into
Europe and the Mediterranean,
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an area known as the Barbary
coast which included Tripoli,
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which is modern day
Libya, there were pirates,
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Islamic pirates, that were going
out and were sinking the ships
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and taking prisoners.
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And they would
either keep them as slaves
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or hold them for ransom.
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And America just
couldn't deal with this.
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So they built a navy to
go fight the Barbary pirates.
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And it was rather an
inconclusive fighting.
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I've got a book on it
that's recently come out.
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I wish I could remember the
name, but anyone can go to a
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bookstore and ask for the
latest book on Barbary pirates.
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It's most interesting.
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Like, it tells the story
there of Adams and Jefferson,
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both government functionaries
not yet presidents,
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they sat down with the
ambassador for Tripoli.
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And they said, you know,
"We don't want you to take
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these captives and
these slaves anymore."
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You know, Americans slaves?
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Because as they were
talking at one stage,
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the U.S. ambassador, rather, was
talking to the ruler of Tripoli,
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there was a Christian slave, a
white American Christian slave,
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waving the
cooling fan over his head.
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It's almost unbelievable that
this was going on at that time.
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And you know what the
guys answer to them was?
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The ambassador?
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He says, "Well my holy book says
that I can enslave non-Muslims."
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And he says,
"That's just fine with me."
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So America had to form a
navy. They fought them a bit.
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It at least
showed them that America
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is not to be trifled with.
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And they signed the treaty
called, The Treaty of Tripoli.
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And very tellingly, it
says there that America is not
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founded on any religion,
and it is just as much a country
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for Muslims and Christians
and Hindus, and all the rest.
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So it's a secular
country, there's no question.
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But it was a Protestant culture.
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And I believe that
its secular government
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exemplified Protestant
views of freedom of religion
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and open practice.
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So you've inherited
a pretty good history
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in this country, right?
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I have.
00:12:07.42\00:12:08.76
So how do you think as
an American we can keep
00:12:08.79\00:12:11.46
these freedoms going?
00:12:11.49\00:12:12.99
Well right now I see as
an American citizen myself,
00:12:13.70\00:12:18.33
you know, religious
freedom, freedom to speak,
00:12:19.27\00:12:22.57
as long as it's nothing that's
violent or racist bigotry,
00:12:22.97\00:12:27.91
or anything like that,
these freedoms are given to us
00:12:27.94\00:12:32.08
in the Constitution
and other documents.
00:12:32.31\00:12:36.12
And I mean that, you
know, each president should hold
00:12:36.62\00:12:39.69
those truths to be
as they are: truths.
00:12:39.72\00:12:42.76
~ Self-evident. -
Self-evident, yes.
00:12:42.79\00:12:44.63
So in other words, stay
by our founding principles,
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not change them.
00:12:48.63\00:12:49.96
And I wish I could
remember what founding father,
00:12:50.00\00:12:52.10
but he says, "If you
change, take away liberties
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according to the
emergency of moment,"
00:12:54.80\00:12:57.87
he says, "those that take
them away for a momentary safety
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deserve no other
safety nor freedom."
00:13:02.61\00:13:07.08
Because it's precisely at
the moment of danger and threat
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that a good
principle protects you.
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You don't change the principle
when it gets dangerous.
00:13:14.99\00:13:17.86
~ Yep.
00:13:17.89\00:13:19.23
And we're still in the middle
of that testing time, aren't we?
00:13:19.26\00:13:21.63
You were born before
2001, but not much before.
00:13:21.66\00:13:27.07
But most of your life has been
after the twin tower of 9/11,
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twin towers coming down.
00:13:33.24\00:13:34.61
And legally, many
many things have changed.
00:13:34.71\00:13:37.08
And attitudes towards
religious freedom have changed.
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- Not in good ways
always. ~ No, not always.
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Let's take a break, come back.
00:13:43.72\00:13:45.52
We'll come back
after 9/11 and pick it up.
00:13:46.25\00:13:48.72
Stay with us.
00:13:49.22\00:13:50.56