Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the program
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that brings you news,
views, information, discussions
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on religious
liberty events in the US
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and indeed around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty magazine.
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And my guest on this program
is my son Christopher Steed
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who really is not a new
comer to Liberty Insider.
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Many, many years ago
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when you were, I
think 10, 12 or less,
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you came on and
gave a little cameo
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and promoted Liberty
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and I got some great
response from people,
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especially a few old
ladies and said that,
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"Wonderful, that dear boy."
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Well, that dear boy is
back and you are a young man now
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and I wanted to use you
as a test case, Christopher.
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You are a teenager
still, a young man,
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and too few of your age
group of the newer generation
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I think really give
time to sort of analyze
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what is religious liberty
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and there is no
wrong answer to this.
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What to you is
religious liberty?
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Well, in my eyes I
see religious liberty
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as the right for each individual
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to worship one,
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who they want,
two, where they want
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and three, how they want
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without the
government telling them,
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"Look, you have to
worship on this day,
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this time, this
is how you do it,
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and if you don't this
way, you either get prison time
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or worst case
scenario, you know, get killed.
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Absolutely, in
some parts of the world
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in the Middle
East at the moment,
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Christians are being killed
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just because they're Christians.
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Just because we're Christians.
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And not
necessarily from the government
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although there
are some governments
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in North Korea
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if you identify yourself
too openly as a Christian,
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you might lose your life
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because I don't think
they care about Christianity,
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but you're supposed
to worship the state
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and the state rules
so by being a Christian,
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they think the
loyalty is divided,
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that's true.
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But I think you would agree
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that the basis of
Christianity is not legal,
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not with the government,
where does it come from?
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Well, in my eyes
I believe it stems
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from individual religions
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wanting their own individual day
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to worship, to pray,
to do whatever they do
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and when I
remember hearing stories
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from history classes
throughout my high school
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and middle schooling,
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where people in
religions decided
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to branch off
and create their own.
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I guess that for me
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that's where I see
religious liberty coming from.
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Well, you know, this last,
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this would probably
be broadcast in 2018,
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we're filming
this at the end of '17
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and all of 2017
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has been a
celebration of 500 years.
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Now, many of our viewers
might know this 500 years
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since the
Protestant Reformation,
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that's not when
religious liberty was invented
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but in the modern era,
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that's when religious liberty
in the minds of most Christians
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really was worked out
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and lot of the
principles were numerated
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because the different reformers
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like Martin Luther
and Zwingli and Calvin
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and so on.
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They were restricted
both from the Catholic Church
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that didn't want
doctrine deviance
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and from the governments
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who thought it was
their duty to support
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the church and the faithful.
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So the manner of conscience
was central, wasn't it?
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It was.
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You know, when you...
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What you are doing in
life, it's very important to you
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to have a sort of and
inner compass, isn't it?
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I mean, right now,
I'm not really in college,
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I'm looking to
go back to college
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but I need to
find what I want to do
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and that is
basically my central compass,
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and for me religion
is a big aspect of that.
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I want to do
something where I can not only,
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you know, help people
but as well I can say,
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"Look, this is what I believe,
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you know, if you have
any someone to pray with
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or you need someone to
talk to about anything,
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you know, I'm here,
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you can talk to
me, call me, text me,
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do whatever you need to do,
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I'm willing to pray
with you, pray for you,
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you know, read
the Bible with you
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and everything like that.
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Right.
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And, you know, a lot of people
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even that
support Liberty magazine,
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I do believe they
think religious liberty
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is sort of a legal construct
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and they forget that
what you just described
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is where it all derives,
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I mean the power comes from God.
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Yeah.
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But religious liberty
is about your conscience
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and your sense of
why you do things,
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not just because it's expedient
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but you are driven
by your inner values
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to behave a certain way.
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Now there's one
good thing in the US
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on religious accommodation
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that most people
don't seem to realize,
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like many Seventh-day Adventists
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need to have be accommodated
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so they don't work Friday night
and Sabbath in the workplace.
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And in working
with employers for that,
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often the employer will say,
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"Well, can't your church
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give you a dispensation
or something, right?"
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Or many of the Adventists think,
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will I get a letter
from my church saying,
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"This is what my
church believes."
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In reality it doesn't
matter what the church believes,
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the state has understood
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that even if nobody
else thinks like you do,
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if your conscience says,
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"I want Sabbath off,"
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then you should be entitled
under the rules that we have,
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that your religious
conviction should be respected.
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You're right on that one.
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You're comfortable on that one,
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aren't you, as a
matter of personal conviction.
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I mean even in my
work history, I told them,
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"Look, I cannot work Sabbaths
due to my religious beliefs.
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And I've had some people
looked down their noses at me,
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I have one lady, I
remember I applied for,
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I believe it was a
hardware shop in Hagerstown.
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I had one lady
ask me, "Why Sabbath?
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Why not Sunday?
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I mean, I go to
church on Sunday,
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so why don't you go
to church on Sunday?"
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I said, "Well, in the Bible,
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and she says, "Well,
don't quote the Bible,"
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I mean, well, it's interwoven,
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I believe
personally from what I've heard
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from my parents,
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and what I've heard from people,
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from what I've heard growing up
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that God said Sabbath is the day
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that we worship,
it's the seventh day.
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It is the seventh day. Yeah.
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And she says,
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"Well, what if
you count the week,
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Monday, Tuesday,
Wednesday, Thursday,
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Friday, Saturday,
Sunday, that's the seventh-day."
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But in the Bible it says,
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"God studied the
first day as a Sunday,"
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it doesn't say as Sunday,
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but he said the first
day and your seventh day
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which will be
Sunday to Saturday.
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Very good.
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You've thought
that threw in all.
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And this is one
of the deceptions
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that's even been
thrown into the mix lately
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under so called calendar reform.
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A lot of people
have noticed I think,
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but not sort of
thought what it meant,
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that some of
the modern calendars
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have the day ending with Sunday.
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Yeah, I've noticed
that. So it's the seventh day.
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So for people that don't
really go for biblical truth
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and what was originally
meant by the seventh day,
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now it's all been shuffled,
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well, now you
keep the seventh day,
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but it actually happens to be...
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The first day. The first day.
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I don't know if you've heard
of the Emperor Constantine,
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he was one of the
powerful Roman emperors
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who united the empire
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after some pretty heavy fighting
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and he inscribed the
success to Christianity
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but it's obvious
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he decided to use Christianity
to support his rule.
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There's no evidence
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that he ever became a Christian.
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There's apocryphal stories
that he converted on his death
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but I don't think so.
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I've heard the stories of...
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I remember one story especially
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in one of my world
history classes back
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when I was eighth,
seventh or eighth grade,
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I can't remember
exactly what grade it was.
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You've studied in there.
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Yeah, and they said,
"Well, on his death bed,
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he confessed to
one of his priests
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that he wants to
become a Christian."
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And I mean, I had my doubts
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but, you know, it
says in the history book,
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so I thought it was true.
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Well, it's in the history
books but not as a pure fact,
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they say this is the story.
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And remember, the priest
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would have
gladly spread the story
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because he was the godfather
of Christianity at that point.
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But there was no open evidence
he ever became a Christian.
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But anyhow, the
point is Constantine,
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he was the one that designated
the day of worship as Sunday,
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the venerable day of the sun.
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So it's an easy thing
to prove that the Sunday,
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that most Christians
worship on now came about
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through a pagan
influence on Christianity
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where biblically if you go
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by the Bible thing,
there is no question,
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it's the seventh day Sabbath.
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And you probably heard
me talk a few times lately,
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there is a document out
of Rome called Laudato si.
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Remember, you've heard about
the environmental document...
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Environmental, yeah.
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Was behind Pope Francis's speech
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actually to Congress.
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And in that, I
think it's very telling
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that on about four occasions
in a long passage each time,
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they say definitively,
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"The God lay down
the principle of rest
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on the seventh day, Sabbath."
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And they quote the Bible
text that it was the Saturday
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and they say that
this is a principle,
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part of the principle
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for recognizing
God's creatorship
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to save this
planet from extinction.
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Unfortunately at
the end of the document
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they say that,
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"In celebrating
the Eucharistic Sunday,
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we fulfill it."
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Well, that's their saying,
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but there's nothing
for the Bible to say that.
00:10:02.90\00:10:04.73
But anyhow, back to
the religious liberty,
00:10:04.77\00:10:08.17
in the principle
of religious liberty
00:10:08.20\00:10:10.07
I would have to
acknowledge a Roman Catholic
00:10:10.11\00:10:13.48
in the workplace saying,
I want to worship on Sunday.
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I think it's doctrinally wrong,
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but as far as their
conviction, it's right.
00:10:18.51\00:10:20.58
And this is something
that people have a problem
00:10:20.62\00:10:23.18
with religious liberty.
00:10:23.22\00:10:24.55
They don't understand
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that religious
liberty is liberty
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for you as well as for me,
00:10:27.62\00:10:29.02
not necessarily
for the same thing.
00:10:29.06\00:10:30.96
I've also seen
in religious liberty
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as, for example, the
Muslims with the Burkhas,
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and their head gear
and the Sikhs with their,
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I can't remember what their...
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The turban.
00:10:40.87\00:10:42.20
The turban with
their head coverings.
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And their dagger,
ceremonial dagger.
00:10:44.37\00:10:46.74
I remember you
telling me a story about,
00:10:46.78\00:10:49.81
I don't remember when this was,
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but you were telling me
how in public schools now,
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I think in the US
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how they're asking
for the young children
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to be able carry their dagger.
00:10:57.39\00:10:58.75
The kirpan, yes.
00:10:58.79\00:11:00.16
Which is for them a symbol
of a strong fighting sense...
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It's a religious ceremony
00:11:04.09\00:11:05.43
that used to be
their warfare, yeah.
00:11:05.46\00:11:06.80
Yeah, so I mean,
that is pushing religious,
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for me I say is
pushing religious liberty
00:11:10.43\00:11:12.13
a little too far.
00:11:12.17\00:11:13.50
There's no, I mean,
00:11:13.54\00:11:14.87
whether it's
probably not good for you
00:11:14.90\00:11:16.24
and I to say
that that is too far.
00:11:16.27\00:11:18.31
But the lawyers
understand and everyone
00:11:18.34\00:11:20.74
that works on religious liberty,
00:11:20.78\00:11:22.34
religious liberty is
not an unlimited right
00:11:22.38\00:11:26.15
because this is just
saying in its extreme form,
00:11:26.18\00:11:28.45
if I have a religion that says
00:11:28.48\00:11:29.82
that I'm gonna
sacrifice babies on an altar.
00:11:29.85\00:11:34.56
I don't have a
right to go kill babies
00:11:34.59\00:11:36.29
because society in large
00:11:36.32\00:11:38.13
has to protect
against my religion.
00:11:38.16\00:11:40.26
Yeah, you're right on that one.
00:11:40.30\00:11:42.03
So there are
certain civil constraints,
00:11:42.06\00:11:44.97
but as far as what
you believe and worship,
00:11:45.00\00:11:48.87
you know, the way you go
00:11:48.90\00:11:50.24
about worshiping
and even proclaiming,
00:11:50.27\00:11:52.77
talking to other
people about your faith.
00:11:52.81\00:11:54.98
That really
shouldn't have limits.
00:11:55.01\00:11:57.41
No, for me, I've
heard people telling me,
00:11:57.45\00:12:00.28
"You're Seventh-day Adventist,
00:12:00.32\00:12:01.65
I don't want to
talk to you anymore,
00:12:01.68\00:12:03.02
you know, like,
00:12:03.05\00:12:04.39
you believe in
something different than me,
00:12:04.42\00:12:05.75
I don't want to hear it."
00:12:05.79\00:12:07.12
And that's even
beyond religious liberty,
00:12:07.16\00:12:08.49
that's close mindedness
and prejudice there...
00:12:08.52\00:12:11.03
That in its many
manifestations including,
00:12:11.06\00:12:13.40
that it bleeds over
into racist attitudes,
00:12:13.43\00:12:15.36
that leads to great violence
00:12:15.40\00:12:17.33
and disruption in
societies is not good.
00:12:17.37\00:12:19.67
But then on the flip side,
the other side of the coin,
00:12:19.70\00:12:22.14
I've had people just
come over to me and say,
00:12:22.17\00:12:24.74
"I've seen you going
into the Willowbrook Church,
00:12:24.77\00:12:27.11
or I've seen you at
the Hagerstown Church.
00:12:27.14\00:12:28.78
I've seen you
carrying that little Bible
00:12:28.81\00:12:30.18
you carry around
with you sometimes.
00:12:30.21\00:12:33.85
Why do you go to
church on Saturday
00:12:33.88\00:12:35.38
and why do you believe this.
00:12:35.42\00:12:37.29
I mean, I've been
grown up believing,
00:12:37.32\00:12:39.05
you know, they said me earlier
00:12:39.09\00:12:40.59
on how I've been told by
my father, by the priest,
00:12:40.62\00:12:44.49
who we call father
00:12:44.53\00:12:45.86
that Sunday is the
best day to worship,
00:12:45.89\00:12:47.66
why do you believe differently?"
00:12:47.70\00:12:49.03
And I'll tell them,
00:12:49.06\00:12:50.40
"Well, do you mind
quoting the Bible."
00:12:50.43\00:12:52.47
Actually I even ask people,
00:12:52.50\00:12:53.84
do you mind me
reading the Bible to them,
00:12:53.87\00:12:55.34
most people are
99.9999% of people
00:12:55.37\00:12:59.64
that I talk to are like that.
00:12:59.67\00:13:02.24
That's good.
00:13:02.28\00:13:03.61
You just explained
the very natural way
00:13:03.65\00:13:05.01
to witness for your faith.
00:13:05.05\00:13:06.61
And Paul says
that talk about women,
00:13:06.65\00:13:08.32
but he says,
00:13:08.35\00:13:09.68
"They'll see your godliness
and that will convince them,
00:13:09.72\00:13:12.19
that's its own witness."
00:13:12.22\00:13:14.02
And if people asked
question about your behavior,
00:13:14.06\00:13:16.62
that's the most natural
way to project to someone else.
00:13:16.66\00:13:20.96
Let's take a break.
00:13:21.00\00:13:22.33
We'll be back shortly
with Christopher Steed
00:13:22.36\00:13:24.87
and his father,
me, Lincoln steed,
00:13:24.90\00:13:29.24
talking about religious liberty.
00:13:29.27\00:13:30.81
We'll be back.
00:13:30.84\00:13:32.57