Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000376B
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00:05 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider.
00:07 Before the break with guest Ed Woods III, 00:10 we were in The Great Controversy. 00:12 Not between you and I, 00:13 a little argument is good sometimes 00:15 and I've differed from a few guests. 00:18 But I think we're in pretty much agreement 00:20 about The Great Controversy theme 00:22 is derived from the Bible 00:24 and that we're living through it. 00:25 Through it. 00:27 And I can say as the war, as we talk about the mind, 00:29 we talked about faith, 00:30 but also talked about war worship. 00:32 And one of the things that's come out 00:34 of the Colin Kaepernick, 00:35 you know, incident in the NFL 00:37 with regards to taking a knee, you know, he took a knee, 00:40 and he said, "The reason why I was taken a knee 00:42 was in response or as a protest 00:47 to the abuse of minorities at the hand of police." 00:51 And now that's what he took a knee for. 00:53 But then it became a patriotism issue, 00:56 it became disrespect of the military issue, 00:58 but that was not the purpose of him taking a knee. 01:03 And, I mean, he might not be the best speaker, 01:05 the best messenger, but he clearly articulated, 01:09 "I am taking a knee as a response 01:12 to the systematic abuse of minority and..." 01:16 And that was a reasonable attitude stuff. 01:17 And I didn't find it anywhere, 01:19 I mean, I didn't find it offensive at all. 01:20 What I can remember people found offensive way back 01:24 in the '70s, you know, the fist. 01:25 Well, the fist, that was at the Olympics. 01:27 Yeah. 01:28 I think that could have been seen as more in your face 01:31 and even an aggression, I mean, they had a good cause. 01:34 It was the black power, you know, the secular right. 01:36 But this I thought from what... 01:37 I don't follow football as close as I should 01:40 or as some do 01:42 but it seemed a fairly passive thing. 01:44 But of course, even the president 01:45 elevated this to a new level 01:49 and then the patriotism kicked in 01:50 and all I thought of on this patriotism... 01:52 I can remember Scalia 01:54 who had many constitutional sins 01:57 from those of us on a true religious liberty level. 02:01 You know, he was never mind. 02:03 But he said and I remember hearing him in person, 02:05 he defended vigorously the right, 02:07 say to burn the flag. 02:09 Right, and he said even his own wife pillow fighting 02:12 when he came home after leading in the decision 02:15 of the Supreme Court that upheld the right to do that. 02:17 We need to recognize that that doesn't automatically 02:20 even not to put your hand over your heart 02:23 during the national anthem... 02:25 We're not in the Nazi era where if you got 02:27 the slightest flinching of loyalty to the fear 02:29 or whatever you're taken off to the camp, 02:32 there's different ways that defines citizenship. 02:35 With regards to the black power side, 02:38 you'd have to understand... 02:40 I thought I might stir it. 02:41 You got to stir with everything, 02:42 that would makes me very clear 02:44 the effects of systematic racism 02:47 and the degrading of blacks 02:49 and just reduce us to nothing or to make us feel... 02:52 No, no, no, my point was that act was meant to be, 02:57 it was far more confrontational act. 03:00 This taking the knee, I think is passive statement. 03:04 It's a passive statement, that's respectful, 03:06 but also the black power was also a motivation. 03:09 You know, here we can win medals to represent our country 03:14 but we can't get fair treatment at all. 03:16 Yeah, I understand and I lived in Washington 03:19 when it burned in 1960 03:20 and I know what we've been through. 03:22 And I also still watch and it just blows my mind, 03:26 newsreel footage showing 03:27 of Jesse Owens winning in the Olympics. 03:29 '36. And we say... 03:31 "All this showed the..." 03:32 They make statements up, 03:34 you know we went through it at that time. 03:36 Blacks couldn't serve in the US military, 03:38 civil rights, 03:40 so we've been through hell and back on this issue. 03:42 But that what makes me cleared up 03:44 because I mean, that's just something that's important 03:47 but if you look at the Kerner Commission, 03:49 I'm not going to go into it, 03:50 but Google the Kerner Commission 03:52 and the same five findings 03:55 that we found in the Kerner Commission 03:56 after the riots of Detroit, 03:58 what happened in New Jersey in 1967. 04:01 Let's look 50 years later in 2017, 04:05 I guarantee you after you look at the Kerner Commission, 04:08 the question is what progress have we made? 04:12 And then two, what difference has the church made? 04:16 Fifty year, it's the same five things. 04:17 One of them had to deal with segregated housing, 04:19 same issue in 2017, same issue. 04:22 We'll go back to Kaepernick 04:24 just so we could go in there too. 04:25 Well, you know, for us, you and me, it's a long time, 04:27 but in the sweep of history, 04:28 it's really just a couple of blinks 04:29 and it'll take a long time. 04:32 Even if the US has good intention, 04:35 the society has an incredible crippling 04:38 of the year before the Civil War 04:40 and even Reconstruction. 04:42 And I think there's some progress made 04:43 but it's by no means over. 04:46 Why do you think I just think of... 04:48 I think of Winston Churchill. 04:49 You know, we haven't yet begun to fight with, 04:50 what was that we have... 04:52 Wish I could remember, but, you know, 04:54 we've just barely aroused our self. 04:55 This is not the beginning of the end. 04:57 "And this is not the end. 04:59 It's not even the beginning of the end." 05:01 But it's the challenge, I mean, we've made this progress 05:03 for the voting rights to civil rights. 05:04 Now we have this Kerner Commission, 05:05 50 years where we are. 05:07 And then, you know, Dr. King's vision here, 05:09 he was doing award economic income inequality 05:12 for everybody was looking at Appalachian, 05:15 he was looking at the Latinos. 05:16 You're right, it's been forgotten 05:18 that his vision was very broad. 05:19 Broad, you know, not just the Vietnam War 05:21 but going back to Kaep, you know, 05:23 what really comes out is the symbol of the flag 05:27 and how we are worshipping the flag 05:30 and this whole patriotism 05:32 and this whole thing associated with the flag. 05:34 I mean, people say the Star-Spangled Banner, 05:36 but does anybody actually read the third verse 05:39 where it talks about the hireling and slave. 05:41 Does anybody actually read and talk about 05:43 what it really means. 05:46 You know, I mean, we demonize Kaepernick 05:48 and we add all these other elements 05:50 but these other elements 05:51 was not what Kaepernick was protesting for. 05:54 And now we have this big controversy 05:57 which has nothing to do with, 05:59 like you said, a non-aggressive but a peaceful protests 06:03 by taking the knee to the national... 06:06 No, no military was disrespected, 06:08 nobody was told that their sacrifice was at vain 06:11 in terms of a parent. 06:12 I mean, even Pat Tillman who died playing, 06:14 who was playing for the Arizona Cardinals 06:16 who died in the war. 06:18 His widow came out and said, "My husband died 06:21 for your right to free speech and your right to protest." 06:24 And so this whole symbol of the flag is very dangerous. 06:28 Not the action but the reactions reveal some, 06:32 actually, very polarizing dangerous tendencies, I think. 06:37 Where it will go I don't know. But it's interesting... 06:39 How we switch the narrative to something that's not true. 06:44 And now we have this tension, this conflict, 06:47 that has nothing to do 06:49 with the original intent of the protests, 06:52 which is well documented with Laquan McDonald, 06:55 Mike Brown, Tamir Rice, Freddie Gray, 06:58 and the names Philando Castile 07:00 and the names go on and on and on. 07:02 And that's just from a race, 07:03 we still haven't dealt with classism, 07:05 we still haven't dealt with gender. 07:07 But we spoke in another program I think about 07:09 how our modern society 07:11 is being manipulated on that stead. 07:14 And there isn't a gender 07:15 and this protest was for a given purpose 07:19 but I can see it already being steered 07:21 for a larger agenda of different forces. 07:24 I mean, the thing is we don't know what it is. 07:26 Is it a smokescreen for the Russian meddling, 07:28 I mean, what's happening there. 07:30 But I can tell already it's been moved on purpose 07:34 and I'm afraid there's some that have a vested interest 07:37 in creating class conflict and a sense of peril. 07:43 And where that will end probably not good. 07:46 Well, I don't know, I mean. 07:47 I think we're headed for the lockdown. 07:49 And for religious liberty, we want anything 07:52 but the lockdown that flourishes on open views, 07:55 open expressions, 07:57 Reformation was a wild and messy event 08:00 that in a way resulted in the 30 years war 08:02 which was bad. 08:04 But yet, it also resulted in the modern world order we have, 08:07 sovereign countries, and free speech, 08:09 and all the rest, 08:10 this would be a horrible world but for the Reformation. 08:14 And we really need to be careful 08:16 that our continuing openness 08:19 that's characterized the bit of the 19th, 08:22 most of the 20th century, 08:24 I think we are on lockdown stage. 08:27 And we have to keep talking freedom 08:31 in a secular sense but it derives, 08:34 as even Jefferson said, not wanting to say God, the God 08:37 but, you know, nature is God. 08:38 It derives from a divine source. 08:40 Absolutely. 08:42 Otherwise, it comes with the seasons, 08:44 leaves with the seasons. 08:45 This is just something that's been granted 08:46 by those in power. 08:48 But that's why our 08:49 Public Affairs Religious Liberty 08:50 needs to be transformed from a service to a ministry... 08:53 Absolutely. Because of the evangelistic... 08:55 I like that, from a service to a ministry. 08:57 Because of the evangelistic component 08:59 in seeing what's happening in today's world. 09:01 And the Great Controversy is for Adventist everything. 09:05 It's everything. To explain this. 09:06 And we need to really take a look at that. 09:08 But the question, this whole thing with the flag 09:10 is this whole thing about symbols. 09:13 And I say, don't let your symbols 09:16 rob you off your principles. 09:18 And we're up here worshiping these symbols 09:20 as if they have something to do with freedom, 09:23 I mean, this whole, I mean, America has ideals, 09:27 but America is not living up to its ideals. 09:29 Its America's ideals, 09:31 the flag might have a good place in it 09:32 but we're not flag worshippers, 09:34 it should be the ideal worshippers. 09:36 And we need to make sure... Of a free... 09:38 We're running out of time. 09:40 But, you know, I have a thing about the flag 09:43 and it still troubles me 09:45 to some degree to go into a church 09:46 and to see the national flag and perhaps the church 09:50 or a Pathfinder flag flying up on the stage. 09:53 The state is worthy of loyalty in the civil sense 09:56 but inside the church, God is preeminent. 09:59 Amen. 10:00 And the flag is the symbol of the State, 10:02 you don't plant it behind the altar. 10:05 People haven't really thought of the dynamic of this. 10:08 You know, on a church, at least in our church 10:11 and I think most churches, when you build it, 10:12 it's finished, you dedicate it to God. 10:15 And in the medieval era, they understood 10:17 that's not State territory, that's heavenly territory. 10:20 Absolutely. And you don't mix the two. 10:22 Well, the third angel's message is very clear, 10:25 "Fear God and give Him glory 10:27 because the hour of judgment has come. 10:29 Worship Him who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, 10:32 and springs of water." 10:34 When we think about 10:35 the Public Affairs Religious Liberty ministry 10:37 and the impact that it can have 10:39 in hastening the soon Second Coming of Christ, 10:41 let's not get caught up in the symbols of flags 10:44 or even the symbol of the Sabbath. 10:46 We worship Him, 10:47 the one who has created the Sabbath, 10:49 the one who has redeemed us, and has made salvation possible 10:53 so that we can live with Him in eternity. 10:55 And that's what excites me about the Public Affairs 10:58 of Religious Liberty ministry is our worship 11:01 to the King of kings and the Lord of lords, 11:04 He is the great emancipator. 11:08 Almost a 100 years before the American Revolution, 11:12 England had a civil war. 11:15 And almost a 100 years 11:17 before that revolution, John Milton, 11:20 one of the greatest literary figures 11:22 that ever came out of England wrote Paradise Lost 11:25 in its companion Paradise Regained. 11:28 In Paradise Lost, 11:30 he told of the rebellion in heaven 11:33 and using fabulous language and the speech 11:37 that many has accused of putting Satan himself up 11:41 as the hero of the work. 11:43 He had Satan say that he had determined 11:45 to wage unrelenting war against heaven. 11:50 Today, when we talk about religious liberty 11:52 and indeed the state of the world, 11:54 we need to realize what Milton wrote 11:57 was not a literary fantasy. 11:59 It was based on the biblical account 12:01 and what the prophets and seers through the ages have said, 12:04 and most recently for Seventh-day Adventist, 12:07 Ellen White writing in Great Controversy, 12:09 that we are indeed engaged in a great war 12:12 between two forces, the good and the not so good. 12:16 Not always that clear to people 12:18 but the end result is night and day, 12:20 salvation and damnation, liberty, and great oppression. 12:25 And all of us that work for religious liberty know 12:28 that the battle is not easy, it's not a simple matter 12:31 of just protecting religious liberty. 12:33 We have to advance against incredibly negative forces 12:37 and maintain a biblical principle of freedom 12:40 before God. 12:43 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2018-01-18