Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break
with guest Ed Woods III,
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we were in The
Great Controversy.
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Not between you and I,
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a little
argument is good sometimes
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and I've differed
from a few guests.
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But I think we're in
pretty much agreement
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about The Great
Controversy theme
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is derived from the Bible
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and that we're
living through it.
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Through it.
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And I can say as the war,
as we talk about the mind,
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we talked about faith,
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but also talked
about war worship.
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And one of the
things that's come out
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of the Colin Kaepernick,
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you know, incident in the NFL
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with regards to taking a
knee, you know, he took a knee,
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and he said, "The
reason why I was taken a knee
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was in response or as a protest
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to the abuse of minorities
at the hand of police."
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And now that's
what he took a knee for.
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But then it became
a patriotism issue,
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it became disrespect
of the military issue,
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but that was not the
purpose of him taking a knee.
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And, I mean, he might
not be the best speaker,
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the best messenger,
but he clearly articulated,
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"I am taking a
knee as a response
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to the systematic
abuse of minority and..."
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And that was a
reasonable attitude stuff.
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And I didn't find it anywhere,
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I mean, I didn't
find it offensive at all.
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What I can remember
people found offensive way back
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in the '70s, you know, the fist.
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Well, the fist,
that was at the Olympics.
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Yeah.
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I think that could have
been seen as more in your face
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and even an aggression, I
mean, they had a good cause.
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It was the black power,
you know, the secular right.
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But this I thought from what...
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I don't follow
football as close as I should
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or as some do
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but it seemed a
fairly passive thing.
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But of course,
even the president
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elevated this to a new level
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and then the
patriotism kicked in
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and all I thought of
on this patriotism...
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I can remember Scalia
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who had many constitutional sins
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from those of us on a
true religious liberty level.
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You know, he was never mind.
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But he said and I
remember hearing him in person,
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he defended
vigorously the right,
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say to burn the flag.
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Right, and he said even
his own wife pillow fighting
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when he came home
after leading in the decision
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of the Supreme Court that
upheld the right to do that.
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We need to recognize that
that doesn't automatically
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even not to put
your hand over your heart
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during the national anthem...
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We're not in the
Nazi era where if you got
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the slightest
flinching of loyalty to the fear
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or whatever you're
taken off to the camp,
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there's different ways
that defines citizenship.
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With regards to
the black power side,
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you'd have to understand...
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I thought I might stir it.
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You got to stir with everything,
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that would makes me very clear
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the effects of systematic racism
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and the degrading of blacks
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and just reduce us to
nothing or to make us feel...
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No, no, no, my point was
that act was meant to be,
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it was far more
confrontational act.
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This taking the knee, I
think is passive statement.
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It's a passive
statement, that's respectful,
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but also the black
power was also a motivation.
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You know, here we can win
medals to represent our country
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but we can't get
fair treatment at all.
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Yeah, I understand
and I lived in Washington
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when it burned in 1960
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and I know what
we've been through.
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And I also still watch
and it just blows my mind,
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newsreel footage showing
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of Jesse Owens
winning in the Olympics.
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'36. And we say...
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"All this showed the..."
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They make statements up,
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you know we went
through it at that time.
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Blacks couldn't
serve in the US military,
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civil rights,
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so we've been through
hell and back on this issue.
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But that what
makes me cleared up
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because I mean, that's
just something that's important
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but if you look at
the Kerner Commission,
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I'm not going to go into it,
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but Google the Kerner Commission
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and the same five findings
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that we found in
the Kerner Commission
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after the riots of Detroit,
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what happened in
New Jersey in 1967.
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Let's look 50
years later in 2017,
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I guarantee you after you
look at the Kerner Commission,
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the question is what
progress have we made?
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And then two, what
difference has the church made?
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Fifty year, it's
the same five things.
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One of them had to deal
with segregated housing,
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same issue in 2017, same issue.
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We'll go back to Kaepernick
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just so we
could go in there too.
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Well, you know, for us,
you and me, it's a long time,
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but in the sweep of history,
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it's really just
a couple of blinks
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and it'll take a long time.
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Even if the US
has good intention,
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the society has an
incredible crippling
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of the year before the Civil War
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and even Reconstruction.
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And I think
there's some progress made
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but it's by no means over.
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Why do you think
I just think of...
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I think of Winston Churchill.
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You know, we haven't
yet begun to fight with,
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what was that we have...
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Wish I could
remember, but, you know,
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we've just
barely aroused our self.
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This is not the
beginning of the end.
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"And this is not the end.
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It's not even the
beginning of the end."
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But it's the challenge, I
mean, we've made this progress
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for the voting
rights to civil rights.
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Now we have this
Kerner Commission,
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50 years where we are.
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And then, you know,
Dr. King's vision here,
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he was doing award
economic income inequality
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for everybody was
looking at Appalachian,
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he was looking at the Latinos.
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You're right,
it's been forgotten
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that his vision was very broad.
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Broad, you know,
not just the Vietnam War
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but going back
to Kaep, you know,
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what really comes out
is the symbol of the flag
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and how we are
worshipping the flag
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and this whole patriotism
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and this whole thing
associated with the flag.
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I mean, people say
the Star-Spangled Banner,
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but does anybody
actually read the third verse
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where it talks about
the hireling and slave.
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Does anybody
actually read and talk about
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what it really means.
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You know, I mean,
we demonize Kaepernick
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and we add all
these other elements
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but these other elements
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was not what
Kaepernick was protesting for.
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And now we have
this big controversy
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which has nothing to do with,
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like you said, a non-aggressive
but a peaceful protests
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by taking the
knee to the national...
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No, no military
was disrespected,
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nobody was told that
their sacrifice was at vain
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in terms of a parent.
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I mean, even Pat
Tillman who died playing,
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who was playing for
the Arizona Cardinals
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who died in the war.
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His widow came out
and said, "My husband died
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for your right to free speech
and your right to protest."
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And so this whole symbol
of the flag is very dangerous.
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Not the action but
the reactions reveal some,
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actually, very polarizing
dangerous tendencies, I think.
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Where it will go I don't
know. But it's interesting...
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How we switch the narrative
to something that's not true.
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And now we have this
tension, this conflict,
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that has nothing to do
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with the original
intent of the protests,
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which is well
documented with Laquan McDonald,
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Mike Brown, Tamir
Rice, Freddie Gray,
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and the names Philando Castile
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and the names go
on and on and on.
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And that's just from a race,
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we still haven't
dealt with classism,
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we still haven't
dealt with gender.
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But we spoke in
another program I think about
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how our modern society
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is being
manipulated on that stead.
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And there isn't a gender
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and this protest
was for a given purpose
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but I can see it
already being steered
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for a larger agenda
of different forces.
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I mean, the thing is
we don't know what it is.
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Is it a smokescreen
for the Russian meddling,
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I mean, what's happening there.
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But I can tell already
it's been moved on purpose
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and I'm afraid there's
some that have a vested interest
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in creating class
conflict and a sense of peril.
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And where that will
end probably not good.
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Well, I don't know, I mean.
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I think we're
headed for the lockdown.
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And for religious
liberty, we want anything
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but the lockdown that
flourishes on open views,
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open expressions,
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Reformation was a
wild and messy event
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that in a way
resulted in the 30 years war
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which was bad.
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But yet, it also resulted in
the modern world order we have,
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sovereign
countries, and free speech,
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and all the rest,
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this would be a horrible
world but for the Reformation.
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And we really need to be careful
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that our continuing openness
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that's characterized
the bit of the 19th,
00:08:19.43\00:08:22.40
most of the 20th century,
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I think we are
on lockdown stage.
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And we have to
keep talking freedom
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in a secular
sense but it derives,
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as even Jefferson said,
not wanting to say God, the God
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but, you know, nature is God.
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It derives from a divine source.
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Absolutely.
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Otherwise, it
comes with the seasons,
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leaves with the seasons.
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This is just
something that's been granted
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by those in power.
00:08:46.76\00:08:48.09
But that's why our
00:08:48.12\00:08:49.46
Public Affairs Religious Liberty
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needs to be transformed
from a service to a ministry...
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Absolutely. Because
of the evangelistic...
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I like that, from a
service to a ministry.
00:08:55.30\00:08:57.63
Because of the
evangelistic component
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in seeing what's
happening in today's world.
00:08:59.70\00:09:01.60
And the Great Controversy
is for Adventist everything.
00:09:01.64\00:09:05.01
It's
everything. To explain this.
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And we need to
really take a look at that.
00:09:06.41\00:09:08.64
But the question, this
whole thing with the flag
00:09:08.68\00:09:10.75
is this whole
thing about symbols.
00:09:10.78\00:09:13.15
And I say,
don't let your symbols
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rob you off your principles.
00:09:16.15\00:09:18.35
And we're up here
worshiping these symbols
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as if they have
something to do with freedom,
00:09:20.96\00:09:23.22
I mean, this whole, I
mean, America has ideals,
00:09:23.26\00:09:27.03
but America is not
living up to its ideals.
00:09:27.06\00:09:29.36
Its America's ideals,
00:09:29.40\00:09:31.00
the flag might
have a good place in it
00:09:31.03\00:09:32.53
but we're not flag worshippers,
00:09:32.57\00:09:34.34
it should be the
ideal worshippers.
00:09:34.37\00:09:36.04
And we need to make
sure... Of a free...
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We're running out of time.
00:09:38.84\00:09:40.34
But, you know, I have
a thing about the flag
00:09:40.38\00:09:42.98
and it still troubles me
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to some degree
to go into a church
00:09:45.08\00:09:46.82
and to see the national
flag and perhaps the church
00:09:46.85\00:09:50.02
or a Pathfinder flag
flying up on the stage.
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The state is worthy of
loyalty in the civil sense
00:09:53.22\00:09:56.62
but inside the
church, God is preeminent.
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Amen.
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And the flag is the
symbol of the State,
00:10:00.70\00:10:02.33
you don't plant
it behind the altar.
00:10:02.36\00:10:05.13
People haven't really
thought of the dynamic of this.
00:10:05.17\00:10:08.84
You know, on a
church, at least in our church
00:10:08.87\00:10:11.01
and I think most
churches, when you build it,
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it's finished, you
dedicate it to God.
00:10:12.74\00:10:15.48
And in the medieval
era, they understood
00:10:15.51\00:10:17.68
that's not State territory,
that's heavenly territory.
00:10:17.71\00:10:20.38
Absolutely. And
you don't mix the two.
00:10:20.42\00:10:22.85
Well, the third
angel's message is very clear,
00:10:22.88\00:10:25.19
"Fear God and give Him glory
00:10:25.22\00:10:27.62
because the hour
of judgment has come.
00:10:27.66\00:10:29.66
Worship Him who made the
heaven, the earth, the sea,
00:10:29.69\00:10:32.53
and springs of water."
00:10:32.56\00:10:34.03
When we think about
00:10:34.06\00:10:35.40
the Public Affairs
Religious Liberty ministry
00:10:35.43\00:10:37.23
and the impact that it can have
00:10:37.27\00:10:39.27
in hastening the soon
Second Coming of Christ,
00:10:39.30\00:10:41.60
let's not get caught
up in the symbols of flags
00:10:41.64\00:10:44.31
or even the
symbol of the Sabbath.
00:10:44.34\00:10:46.27
We worship Him,
00:10:46.31\00:10:47.64
the one who has
created the Sabbath,
00:10:47.68\00:10:49.11
the one who has redeemed us,
and has made salvation possible
00:10:49.14\00:10:53.25
so that we can live
with Him in eternity.
00:10:53.28\00:10:55.58
And that's what excites
me about the Public Affairs
00:10:55.62\00:10:58.92
of Religious Liberty
ministry is our worship
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to the King of kings
and the Lord of lords,
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He is the great emancipator.
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Almost a 100 years
before the American Revolution,
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England had a civil war.
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And almost a 100 years
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before that
revolution, John Milton,
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one of the
greatest literary figures
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that ever came out of
England wrote Paradise Lost
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in its companion
Paradise Regained.
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In Paradise Lost,
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he told of the
rebellion in heaven
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and using fabulous
language and the speech
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that many has accused
of putting Satan himself up
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as the hero of the work.
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He had Satan say
that he had determined
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to wage
unrelenting war against heaven.
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Today, when we talk
about religious liberty
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and indeed the
state of the world,
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we need to
realize what Milton wrote
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was not a literary fantasy.
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It was based on
the biblical account
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and what the prophets and seers
through the ages have said,
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and most recently for
Seventh-day Adventist,
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Ellen White writing
in Great Controversy,
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that we are indeed
engaged in a great war
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between two forces, the
good and the not so good.
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Not always that clear to people
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but the end
result is night and day,
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salvation and damnation,
liberty, and great oppression.
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And all of us that work
for religious liberty know
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that the battle is not
easy, it's not a simple matter
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of just
protecting religious liberty.
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We have to advance against
incredibly negative forces
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and maintain a
biblical principle of freedom
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before God.
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For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
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