Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break,
with guest Edwards III,
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we were...
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You were in fine
sock, so pick up on that.
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I'm sorry to
have interrupted you
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because I know
the spirit was moving.
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Well, I was
talking about an experience
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that really humbled
me to be honest with you.
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I was working for the
Department of Human Services
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and Ismael Ahmed had this vision
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for a Poverty Summit
along with Governor Granholm
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at the time that
we did at Detroit.
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But leading up to it,
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they had us do a
food-step challenge
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where we lived, I
should say, food assistance
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because we used
debit cards challenge
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where you would try to live,
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I think it was
like $30 for a week.
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And for those perhaps overseas,
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food stamps are part of
social welfare for unemployed
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and needy people
where you can get...
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Well, you don't necessarily
have to be unemployed.
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That's what I
said, or needy people
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below a threshold and so on.
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Right, because you
can't own your own house.
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And they
literally used to be stamps,
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but you were saying...
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It's a debit card. Debit card.
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So we had a debit card.
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And I remember
going through the line.
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And at one store,
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you could only go at
food assistance line.
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And if they didn't
have the icon of the card,
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you were in the wrong line.
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Whereas another store,
you could go through any line.
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And so I remember
going to the line,
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I was getting my
food and I don't know
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what they might
have thought about me,
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you know, I
wasn't dressed horribly
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since I didn't
think I was dressed bad.
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They said, "You have
$5.28 left on card, sir!"
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And, Lincoln, I'm
looking at them like,
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"Why are you yelling at me?"
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You know, why do
you fear I have been...
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I don't understand.
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But they made an
assumption that I needed to know
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how much was left on the card
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because I couldn't
figure it out for myself.
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And that really struck me
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because, you
know, food assistance,
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they always cry
fraud, fraud, fraud, fraud.
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There's not that much
fraud in food assistance.
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There's not that much
fraud in any welfare program
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if you really
look at the numbers.
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But they always have
these one or two big cases
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and they want to highlight
them like this is the norm
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for the course
and it's really not.
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There's more fraud
out on Wall Street.
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Well, I'm sure you've picked up
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one of the very
sinister underside
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to the developing
religious rightism
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recently is that
the poor are poor
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because they've done wrong
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and they've dropped themselves
beneath God's blessing
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and that they
deserve to be poor.
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I've worked in the system,
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that's just
fundamentally not true.
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No, but I've heard it said.
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I'm disagreeing it.
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But what we don't do
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when we talked a
little bit earlier, learn,
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this is why I want to get
back to learn to do right.
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You need to take an opportunity
to walk in somebody's shoes,
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whether it's living
in a housing project,
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whether it's
living in a trailer park,
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whether it's
living on the streets
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in terms of homelessness,
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in order for you to
learn to help people
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and to understand
what they're going through,
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I mean, like I told you earlier
in one of our previous shows,
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it's not only hard work,
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it's heart work
being for someone.
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I mean, you have
to have a compassion,
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you have to have
a willingness to see
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what it's like to
be on the other side.
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It's not something you can
just give a prescription to.
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I am amazed.
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I mean, if you look at
people who are in assistance,
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how they are
managing their money
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and taking care of their kids,
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they have some skill set,
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you know, so to
dismiss them and just...
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I mean, it's not a question,
there's some connection
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between lack of education
and dropping through the tracks
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in modern life.
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Yeah, I mean,
you have education,
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but like I
shared with you earlier,
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you know, the GED
program got cut in Michigan.
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You know, I mean in terms of
we got to skip this generation
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and go to another generation.
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Unfortunately, you get
below a certain threshold
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and the support
structures are removed.
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The support
structures are removed,
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you have incentives.
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When I was working with
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the Workforce
Investment Act Program,
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you know, the incentive was
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to lower your
cost per placement.
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Therefore, those
that were hard to serve
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fell through the cracks.
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Now I need to
say something first,
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something for
our foreign audience.
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I came from Australia
and I've lived in the US
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most of my life and
it's a very blessed country.
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And on many markers,
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it's the most
wealthiest in the world.
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But something that people
in the third world countries
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I don't think understand
about western societal structure
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and particularly the US
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is you could be
earning say 25,000 a year here
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and not doing very well,
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but the
threshold for survivability
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in the normal might be 20,000.
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It's not these very low levels,
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like it costs a certain amount
just to get any sort of rent,
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to have a car, or whatever,
and you can drop below that
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in a flash and you're
in an another reality.
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That's exactly right.
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Right. You know,
that isn't secure.
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It's not incremental
from zero up to whatever,
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there's a breakpoint.
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So, yes, it's looks
like there's a lot of income,
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but the income necessary to live
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any sort of a respectable life,
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it's relatively high
and you drop below that
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and you're in no man's land.
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Especially for a family of four.
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And so, you know,
having the opportunity
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to work in the
city of Benton Harbor
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but also to be a part
of that Poverty Summit
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and the food
challenge, I mean...
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I didn't... I failed.
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Let me just be honest with you.
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For the week, I
failed. I couldn't do it.
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I failed because I
didn't know how to program
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and how to buy appropriately
to make things stretch
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with regards to meal
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because that was a
foreign concept for me
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and I failed miserably.
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I have a newfound
respect for those who are...
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And they're not on assistance
that long, that's another myth.
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You know, people
think they're on there
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for year after year
after year after year,
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it's a stopgap measure.
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And they might be
on there depending on
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if it's welfare or
toward the assistance program,
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year and a half,
up to two years max,
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and then there's...
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No one really, really
wants to be on assistance,
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you have the story,
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but they just did
that stopgap to help
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and get to that point
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where they could be
having a livable wage.
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And the thing is we got to know.
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We don't really
know the programs
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that are out there.
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Now you talk to
pastors and they can't even...
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So information can help
these people often more than...
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And if they would
go to the United Way,
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everybody used to be
familiar with United Way,
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you can actually
learn as a pastor
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what programs are out there
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so that you can
assist your members.
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The church doesn't have to do
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every community service function
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that comes to the church.
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We should be
utilizing those programs
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that are out there
and get people to help.
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And not only that...
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You don't
realize how revolutionary
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what you just said is
because that flies against
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the whole faith-based
initiative representative Bush.
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Well, I'm sorry.
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I'm being fancy. You're right.
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The church can be
a facilitating agent
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to help people get in
touch with what exists,
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it doesn't need to
do everything itself.
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It doesn't have
immediate resources.
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We don't have the
capacity or the resources.
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And then if we do it
with someone else's money,
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we are a hired hand then.
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That was the problem with
faith-based initiative I think.
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We basically showed the press
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that the churches could be
bought out by the government,
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which then wanted to control it.
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But the church can
be a helpful agency,
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and there are...
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And they need to
understand the purpose.
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My wife and I often see
people at stop lots begging.
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Well, I mean, I don't know
their story, but I often say,
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you know, "Why don't they
go to the unemployment office?
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There's agencies
that at least could..."
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It seems to me they've reached
a dead end to be there just...
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They're not spending time
looking for real assistance,
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even going to food
banks and things like that.
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And we just
missed an opportunity
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'cause we're not
really educating,
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you know, out pastors
about the federal laws
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that are
available in the community.
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I mean, they need to know
about Community Action Agencies,
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they need to know about
the Michigan Works agency
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and what they're doing.
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They need to know about
the different civil rights,
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the Urban Leagues, the
NAACP, National Council of ASA,
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understand what's
available in your community,
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and then the local base stuff
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'cause some
things are just unique
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to the
communities because of a need.
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And you have to educate yourself
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and I know it's a
huge responsibility,
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but you are the representative,
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you are the
shepherd in that community
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that you have said you received
and accepted a call from God.
00:08:06.92\00:08:10.79
And although you
can't do everything,
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you have to make yourself
available to the resources
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to connect
00:08:15.36\00:08:16.69
so that your ministries
are assisting the people
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that are in need.
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And I feel so strongly about
it and so passionately about it.
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I've never spoken to anyone
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that sort of has a
clearer vision on this as you.
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But we can help people.
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And it doesn't
cost a lot of money
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by making those referrals
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and it's not just
able by the people.
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I'm also talking
about the elderly.
00:08:36.14\00:08:37.81
I'm talking about
people who are disabled.
00:08:37.85\00:08:39.68
I'm talking about
rehabilitation services.
00:08:39.71\00:08:42.05
I'm talking
about mental services.
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I mean mental illness is real
00:08:43.89\00:08:45.42
whether people want
to deal with it or not.
00:08:45.45\00:08:46.79
And we have these...
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In fact it's a
because of homelessness.
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We have these
ills in our community
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and we're not
really providing an avenue
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or a resource where we can say,
00:08:54.70\00:08:56.43
"Hey, I can't help you here,
but here's someone that can."
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And that's what
they're looking at,
00:09:00.10\00:09:01.44
I can't help you.
00:09:01.47\00:09:02.80
And I can help and I can
send someone to go with you.
00:09:02.84\00:09:05.44
And to bring this back to our
discussion of public affairs,
00:09:05.47\00:09:08.81
this is not making
the church look good,
00:09:08.84\00:09:11.05
it's making the church effective
00:09:11.08\00:09:13.25
in the eyes of the community
00:09:13.28\00:09:14.68
if the church can
be this respondent
00:09:14.72\00:09:17.49
to knowledge and to assistance.
00:09:17.52\00:09:19.55
Absolutely. It'll
make a difference.
00:09:19.59\00:09:21.16
Rather than momentary charity.
00:09:21.19\00:09:23.22
It's good but has
it's place, doesn't it?
00:09:23.26\00:09:24.99
You know, another thing is,
00:09:25.03\00:09:26.36
you know, Gandhi has this
quote that I often remember.
00:09:26.39\00:09:29.96
"I like your Christ,
00:09:30.00\00:09:31.33
but I do not
like you Christians"
00:09:31.37\00:09:33.20
because you Christians
are so unlike your Christ.
00:09:33.23\00:09:37.01
And the thing is, folks,
00:09:37.04\00:09:40.01
we have a
responsibility just to help.
00:09:40.04\00:09:43.01
You know, everybody thinks
every time somebody wants help,
00:09:43.04\00:09:44.78
they want to give money.
00:09:44.81\00:09:46.15
Everybody doesn't want money,
00:09:46.18\00:09:47.78
they just need
assistance to get over it.
00:09:47.82\00:09:49.52
And if you can
connect them to that source...
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Well, knowledge is
power. Knowledge is power.
00:09:50.92\00:09:52.62
Knowledge is
something we can give.
00:09:52.65\00:09:54.02
But you got to get involved.
00:09:54.06\00:09:55.46
And that means you got...
00:09:55.49\00:09:56.83
And you've got to
activate your members.
00:09:56.86\00:09:58.39
You know, and when I
say activate your members,
00:09:58.43\00:09:59.86
the pastor can't do everything,
00:09:59.89\00:10:01.76
but you can delegate who
could activate your members
00:10:01.80\00:10:03.73
and make that difference.
00:10:03.77\00:10:05.10
Do you see a role
00:10:05.13\00:10:06.47
for the North American
Religious Liberty Association
00:10:06.50\00:10:08.20
in activating members to
this sort of social action?
00:10:08.24\00:10:11.54
Loaded question.
00:10:11.57\00:10:12.91
Very loaded question.
00:10:12.94\00:10:14.28
Answer that in
the next few seconds.
00:10:14.31\00:10:15.64
As a member-based association,
00:10:15.68\00:10:18.98
North American
Religious Liberty Association
00:10:19.01\00:10:21.25
really has an
opportunity to redefine
00:10:21.28\00:10:24.05
how we connect pastors
and members with the resources
00:10:24.09\00:10:27.36
that are
available in the community
00:10:27.39\00:10:29.06
not just from an advocacy role
00:10:29.09\00:10:31.13
but also from a
justice standpoint.
00:10:31.16\00:10:33.73
And by making those connections,
00:10:33.76\00:10:35.43
I think that we can
have more of an impact
00:10:35.46\00:10:38.13
where we could represent
the love and the evidence
00:10:38.17\00:10:40.50
of a living Christ in our lives
by making those connections.
00:10:40.54\00:10:44.04
So I think the North American
Religious Liberty Association
00:10:44.07\00:10:47.21
has potential.
00:10:47.24\00:10:48.61
But those
connections are something
00:10:48.64\00:10:49.98
that we can do better in
terms of making that happen.
00:10:50.01\00:10:52.51
And I think it will
happen with the leadership
00:10:52.55\00:10:54.68
that's currently in place
00:10:54.72\00:10:56.05
and the members that
are already on board.
00:10:56.08\00:10:58.99
As a teenager, I first
came to the United States
00:10:59.02\00:11:02.52
and settled with my
family in Washington, DC.
00:11:02.56\00:11:05.43
I will never forget,
00:11:05.46\00:11:07.10
within a few months of arriving,
00:11:07.13\00:11:09.23
seeing the nation's
capital going up in flames.
00:11:09.26\00:11:13.50
There was rioting and
indeed almost a state of war.
00:11:13.54\00:11:15.87
Why?
00:11:15.90\00:11:17.24
Martin Luther
King had been shot.
00:11:17.27\00:11:19.64
And millions of people
across the country cried out
00:11:19.67\00:11:23.11
because it
seemed that their cause
00:11:23.14\00:11:25.75
was coming to nothing.
00:11:25.78\00:11:27.65
Don't tell me that
social justice is immaterial.
00:11:27.68\00:11:31.12
We know, in the United
States, how important this is.
00:11:31.15\00:11:34.29
Anybody that reads the Bible
00:11:34.32\00:11:36.19
knows how
important social justice is.
00:11:36.22\00:11:38.69
Anybody that reads it
knows how it's biased.
00:11:38.73\00:11:42.40
Salvation itself is almost
biased against the wealthy,
00:11:42.43\00:11:46.53
and it's the needy and
those that are downtrodden
00:11:46.57\00:11:49.30
that most benefit from the truce
00:11:49.34\00:11:51.31
that God has to give us.
00:11:51.34\00:11:52.77
It's our privilege, I believe,
00:11:52.81\00:11:54.84
working for religious liberty
00:11:54.88\00:11:56.38
to indeed be
working for social justice,
00:11:56.41\00:11:59.38
to be working
for divine justice,
00:11:59.41\00:12:01.85
and to spread
the gospel of liberty
00:12:01.88\00:12:04.12
throughout the land.
00:12:04.15\00:12:06.69
For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
00:12:06.72\00:12:10.16