Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000375A
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00:26 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:28 This is the program 00:29 that brings you up-to-date news, 00:31 views, information, analysis of religious liberty events 00:35 in the United States and around the world. 00:37 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine. 00:41 And my guest on this program is Ed Woods III, a PARL, 00:48 which is Public Affairs and Religious Liberty worker 00:51 and a leader of some repute. 00:55 You're based in Chicago 00:56 and living in Lansing, Michigan, 00:58 but you deal with... 00:59 Well, you deal with all of North America, 01:01 I've discovered that, 01:02 but your immediate area is in the Great Lakes region. 01:05 Right, Lake Region Conference. 01:06 And I'm happy to really put out a vision 01:10 that our conference administration 01:12 and church has pooled with regards to Public Affairs 01:16 and Religious Liberty. 01:18 Public affairs, in addition to being nice, 01:21 we also look at justice issues. 01:23 Right. 01:25 There's a book talking about the readings and teachings, 01:29 you know, of social justice 01:31 because so many times when you hear justice issues, 01:34 people automatically think about race, 01:36 but there's other things besides race. 01:39 Yes, race is an important component, 01:41 but there's gender issues, there's classism issues, 01:45 there's disability issues. 01:47 And when we think about the oppressed, 01:49 you know, the discarded, 01:50 the brokenhearted, and the poor, 01:52 well, Christ has shown so much love that actuated Him. 01:56 You know, one of the things that Ellen White says 01:58 she is surprised that she doesn't see 02:00 that love in people who say they love Christ 02:03 but only see that concern as it relates to others. 02:06 Well, this is good. 02:07 So let me challenge you with something 02:09 that's very contemporary. 02:11 For the second time 02:12 that I can remember in a big way 02:14 since the '70s, 02:16 the issue of illegals and immigration 02:18 and the stranger within our community 02:21 has become a huge issue. 02:23 And this new administration have decided to, 02:27 if not remove them, 02:28 then threaten them with removal. 02:30 Right. Threaten them with removal. 02:31 And back in the '70s, remember, churches were distinguished 02:33 for creating places of sanctuary. 02:36 Correct. 02:37 They had literally harbored them in the church. 02:39 And people don't think about it, 02:42 but the conventions of the medieval era 02:44 where the church was exempt from civil law, 02:48 in fact, going back to the Old Testament, 02:49 you could take refuge in a church 02:51 so they wouldn't come in. 02:53 And that continued into the '70s. 02:55 Now at the present, many people of faith 02:58 and of a sense of justice are troubled 03:00 by what we're doing, 03:02 but not too many people 03:03 are moving out to do anything about it. 03:05 There's these sanctuary cities 03:06 where they have sort of from the noses, at federal law. 03:10 But what do you think we should do? 03:12 Should we be involved in this? 03:14 Well, I guess, I'm really... 03:17 When I think about 03:18 what's happening with immigration, 03:20 I'm now putting on my role as a father and as a parent. 03:26 And, you know, I'm not gonna, 03:28 you know, advocate 03:29 for a wide spreading of breaking law. 03:32 But also... 03:34 It's the balance. 03:36 It's push me pull you sort of an argument, isn't it. 03:37 But what are we doing, you know, speaking of Dhaka, 03:41 you know, where you have immigrant children 03:43 who came here 03:45 because their parents were here, 03:46 and now they're being threatened 03:48 to go back. 03:49 But it's still a matter of law 03:50 and it's still a matter of justice 03:52 or something that's right. 03:54 You can have law that's written in black and white 03:58 but it may not be truly just. 04:01 Well, I think we need to work on... 04:02 I mean, that's where we have to really work 04:04 with our public policy solutions. 04:06 Obviously, we have one person that represents the church, 04:08 the Congress. 04:10 But if you're really looking at making a change in Congress, 04:12 it's local. 04:13 I mean, this is where the local church members 04:15 have to get involved 04:16 because they vote for their representatives, 04:19 they vote for their 12 US senators. 04:22 And I would really think the church really needs 04:24 to take an active disposition 04:26 to finding what are the solutions. 04:28 These are real people with real stories. 04:30 And I would hate to lose my child, 04:32 any one of my children. 04:33 I love Megan and Michael dearly. 04:35 But if something was to happen 04:37 where they were being pulled away... 04:39 You know, and the thing is, 04:40 you know, what's really happening here. 04:42 You know, Ian Haney Lopez couple years ago 04:45 wrote a book called Dog Whistle Politics. 04:48 And he used images to create fear, 04:51 the images that create fear in American society. 04:53 So you can imagine when they think of terrorists, 04:56 they have a Muslim with turban on their head. 04:58 They manipulated it. 04:59 And every time they say 05:00 terrorist, terrorist, terrorist, 05:02 you think of no one else but a Muslim with a turban. 05:05 And the same things happen with illegal immigration. 05:07 When they say illegal immigration 05:09 and they talk about people taking jobs, 05:11 they don't show a picture of a Muslim with a turban, 05:13 they show a picture of a Mexican. 05:16 And they're saying they're taking the jobs, 05:18 but if you really look at it, 05:20 like what jobs are they really taking away, 05:22 people are not going for the jobs. 05:24 I mean, we're bringing in immigrants to take jobs 05:26 that people don't wanna take 05:28 because there's no available workforce. 05:29 You're fishing towards the answers of that certainly. 05:31 None of these things are in a vacuum. 05:34 And when you're talking about public policy, 05:36 there's many antecedents. 05:38 And my wife and I lived in Idaho for a while, 05:40 and you could see there 05:42 the clear need and the collusion 05:44 in this whole process 05:45 that the farmers were bringing 05:47 in large numbers of illegals to do 05:49 just basic menial weeding and so on. 05:51 You'd see them fanning out over the horizon, 05:54 all old cars there, 05:56 goodness knows what they paid them, 05:58 not even minimum wage. 05:59 So they were filling an economic need 06:02 but yet the laws were otherwise. 06:04 And so the business interests in the US 06:06 clearly have winked at this for decades. 06:10 So the issue narrowly speaking is not is it right for these... 06:14 or are the people here legally or illegally, 06:16 it's part of a bigger picture. 06:18 But what I want to focus on, 06:20 and I have strong opinions on this, 06:22 Christians aren't called to be lawbreakers. 06:26 There's no question on that. 06:27 But there are some laws that are not moral. 06:30 There are some laws 06:31 that we are actually called to disobey 06:33 if they contradict the laws of God. 06:34 That's exactly right. 06:36 But that aside, 06:37 we have to be guided by our conscience. 06:39 There may be times, and this might be one of them, 06:42 where it would be foolish for the church to take a stand 06:44 because it's so politically fraught. 06:47 There's this dynamic of the country 06:49 and the business interest wanting it 06:51 even though they're rejecting them. 06:53 But you might be called by conscience 06:55 to stand up for them and do something 06:57 that puts you on the wrong side of the law. 06:58 I don't have a problem with that at all. 07:00 But you need to realize you take the consequence. 07:02 I mean if you're gonna break the law, that's exactly right, 07:04 you have to be willing to accept the consequences. 07:06 Where a lot of what we do on religious liberty, 07:08 I listen to it, and it's giving the idea 07:11 that a way will carved for you, 07:13 constitutionally or whatever 07:15 or through the legal system, to do what you're called to do. 07:17 You are called to do it regardless 07:19 of whether the way is clear for you. 07:22 And I think that's the difference between 07:24 "what if" faith and "even if" faith. 07:26 And we see with Daniel and the three Hebrew boys, 07:28 they had an "even if" faith. 07:30 You know, we're not going to bow down 07:31 to your graven images. 07:33 And our God is able to deliver us, 07:34 but if not, we still want... 07:35 And we need some more "even if" faith. 07:37 We got get rid of this 07:39 "what if" and have some "even if" faith. 07:41 People, there's no Yellow Brick Road 07:43 when you go down the path of public affairs, 07:45 religious liberty, 07:47 you may lose your life. 07:49 People have been persecuted and have died by the sword 07:53 or died by other means standing up for their faith. 07:57 So let's not just think it's just gonna be, 07:59 you know, Dorothy dancing down the Yellow Brick Road. 08:02 It's not gonna be a Yellow Brick Road. 08:04 Look at Stephen, lost his life, look at James, you know... 08:07 Absolutely, what I think exactly. 08:09 James, he lost his life. 08:11 And the thing of the story with regards to James, 08:14 you know, if you hear some of the rhetoric 08:16 that Herod was talking about, 08:18 he wanted to make the Jewish faith great again. 08:24 And so he was trying to find favor 08:27 with the Jewish population, and he thought... 08:30 Not only did he kill James by the sword 08:33 but he also put Peter in prison. 08:35 But they didn't wanna kill him because it was the Passover. 08:37 And so, you know, look at it, 08:40 for all of a sudden they got religious, 08:42 but they were planning to kill him. 08:43 Yeah. But the Lord intervened. 08:46 But his whole idea was to make Jewish, the faith, 08:49 great again so he could have more... 08:51 how can I say, more support from the populace. 08:55 That's an interesting explanation of that moment 08:57 in the early Christian church, absolutely. 08:59 And so when I hear make Christianity great again, 09:01 you know, I'm like, 09:03 "Well, what does that really mean?" 09:04 Because I know what it meant in the time of Herod 09:06 but what does that mean here in today's society 09:09 when we hear that 09:10 and who does that really impact. 09:12 And I look at it not only from a religious standpoint, 09:15 I look at it from a racial standpoint, 09:17 I look at it from a class standpoint, 09:19 I look at it from a gender standpoint, 09:21 and I also look at it from my thought standpoint, 09:23 you know, what does that mean in today's contemporary times. 09:27 And so people are right to be skeptical, 09:30 they're right to question the modus, 09:32 and we need to have more diversity of thought 09:35 because what we're seeing is pictures of diversity 09:38 but they're homogeneous when it comes to thinking 09:41 and that's a very dangerous for our position. 09:42 And we were talking earlier, 09:44 people being corralled into lines of thought 09:46 under the rubric that this is a free country. 09:49 Yes, it's free on a certain level, 09:51 but the chance to think freely is being taken from us 09:55 in many subtle and not so subtle ways. 09:58 And not only thinking freely 10:00 but also being innovative in creativity 10:02 as it relates to ministry. 10:03 And that's something that I think 10:05 the Public Affairs Religious Liberty 10:07 has an opportunity to do. 10:10 When we're looking at what's really taking place, 10:12 you know, people are taking surveys 10:15 as to whether or not the Bible is the Word of God. 10:18 I'm like, "Okay, so we vote in a democratic society 10:23 whether or not the Bible... 10:24 We're just gonna do away with the Bible?" 10:26 I mean... I'm not keen on these surveys. 10:29 I can remember years ago in Australia 10:32 I ran a youth program 10:33 and I brought in a group called the God's Squad, 10:35 they were a Christian motorcycle club. 10:38 Okay. 10:39 Not Seventh-day Adventists, 10:40 but it was a Seventh-day Adventists meeting. 10:42 And they come burbling down the main highway 10:44 and pull into the parking lot, 10:45 and leather jackets, all coming, 10:47 and their leader, I remember, John Smith... 10:48 This was many years ago, 10:49 he's probably dead now, he was... 10:51 May or may be not, but he'd be an old man. 10:54 And unfortunately 10:56 he chose to poke Adventists in the eye a bit, 10:58 he didn't say anything by name, 11:00 but he said, you know, there's more to witnessing... 11:02 'Cause he told how they went to the pubs 11:03 and all of the rest. 11:04 "More to witnessing 11:06 than filling out questionnaires," 11:07 he said. 11:09 And at that time, 11:10 we were going around door to door 11:11 taking health questionnaires. 11:13 What questionnaires? 11:14 It wasn't wrong, 11:15 but it didn't substitute for real witnessing in a way. 11:17 But the question is what do we do with them. 11:18 I mean, I did a Public Affairs 11:19 and Religious Liberty in Dallas, 11:21 and they had no solicitation and no questionnaires 11:23 because they said people would come and take surveys, 11:26 they would come and ask information, 11:28 but then they would do nothing about it. 11:31 So therefore, they say, 11:32 "Stop coming because you're not helping us." 11:35 In the Bible it's very clear 11:37 that we are to speak up for those 11:39 who cannot speak for themselves 11:41 and defend the rights of all who are destitute, 11:44 speak up and judge fairly, 11:46 defend the rights of the poor and the needy. 11:48 We have a biblical mandate 11:50 responsibility to advocate for the poor, 11:54 for the needy, and to speak up. 11:56 So, yes, in addition to doing community services, 11:59 we have a responsibility 12:01 through Public Affairs Religious Liberty 12:03 to speak up and to advocate. 12:05 I mean, there are folks 12:07 who cannot advocate for themselves, 12:09 who cannot navigate the system. 12:10 Give our voice to the powerless. 12:12 And we have an opportunity to do so 12:15 and also to make some suggestions. 12:16 And I think you can see evidence of that. 12:18 I mean, I think he's a great man 12:19 Bishop Tutu in South Africa there, 12:21 he functions that way. 12:22 He functioned well, Dr. Martin Luther King, 12:24 you know, Gandhi, Mother Teresa, 12:26 but I'm like these are great, but where are the Adventists? 12:29 Well, where are the Christians? 12:32 You know, they can't just come. 12:36 We have some situations in today's society 12:40 where we need Adventists, not blacks, not whites, 12:43 but Christians who are Seventh-day Adventists 12:46 to speak up and to address some of the social ills 12:49 that are plaguing our communities. 12:52 And we have a responsibility to do that 12:54 that we have passively 12:56 taken a discretionary response in saying, 12:58 "Well, when do we respond? 13:00 We have this incident, we have this incident, 13:01 we have this incident, we have this incident, 13:03 we can't just give a statement for everything." 13:04 And I'm like, no... 13:05 We agreed before, 13:07 a statement maybe isn't wrong in itself, 13:08 but a statement in itself is nothing. 13:09 But where is the action? 13:11 Especially, when no one much hears it. 13:12 And where is the local church? 13:13 And my thing is you can't go out 13:15 in the community and expect to build to church 13:17 passing out tracks on a seasonal basis. 13:19 You got to have that relationship 13:21 and they got to know that God is our refuge and strength, 13:24 a very present help in the time of trouble at your church. 13:27 And we are in the time of trouble. 13:29 You don't have to be a Bible reading Christian 13:32 or believer to see these are troublous times. 13:35 And then we're like, 13:37 "Well, I don't know what to do?" 13:38 But the Bible says very clearly, 13:39 "Learn to do right," in Isaiah 1:17, 13:42 "Seek justice, defend the oppressed. 13:45 Take up the cause of the fatherless, 13:47 plead the case of the widow." 13:48 Let me tell you a true story. 13:49 This is the... After the break. 13:51 After the break, I tell you a true story. 13:52 We'll be right back. 13:53 We're gonna take a short break. Stay with us. |
Revised 2018-01-18