Welcome back to
the Liberty Insider.
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Before the break with Ed
Wood we were in fine song.
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Let me tell little
bit about the Johnson,
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you know, and my concern is...
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I want to see if
you want to pick up
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on the Johnson Amendment.
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Well, you're
hearing when I call,
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you know, with this, you know,
I wanna say this respectfully.
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You're hearing what I
hearing now coded language
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fire and fury.
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You know, this type of language,
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you know, kind of concern I had.
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You know, when
we're talking about,
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you know, North Korea
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and how we're
using biblical language
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in a modern society
and what that means,
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you know, to
people because that,
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you know, it puts a
different, for me I don't see...
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I believe God has wrath,
but God is also merciful.
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And He wants us all to come,
He wants none of us to perish,
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but all would come
through to repentance.
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Well, one of the
friends of Joab, he says,
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"You're all full of the
wrath of God," remember?
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Yeah.
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And correctly he was
telling him for that,
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but when you heard the
president use that language
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and there's a political,
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international political context,
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I think it was ill
advised but it's explainable.
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But didn't you
think of Revelation 13?
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Of course.
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I think it's
relatively easy to identify
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the lamb like beast
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that becomes a little
dominant toward the end of time
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and it says,
"He brings fire down
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from heaven in
the sight of men."
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And I just thought
that was very inappropriate
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with regards to, you know, a
dialogue with another leader,
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you know, from another country.
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And, you know, I know
there's a group of pastors
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that he has surrounded himself
with that he listens to...
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Yeah, that's a good point, I
hadn't thought of it that way
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he may have been sort of echoing
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the type of
language that they used.
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And then how they're not,
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you know, they
were very quiet and late
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when it came to
Charlottesville for me.
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You know, in terms of being the
consciousness of the country,
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in terms of who is
aligned themselves with,
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you saw more responsibility
and more authority
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from the business leaders
resigning off of his council
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than you heard from
this group of pastors
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that are supposed
to be advising him
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and you're like,
well, you're supposed to be
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the conscience of
America, the conscience of,
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you know, speaking out
against hate and bigotry
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in Charlottesville
and you're not doing it.
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You know what happened here,
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you know what
really is your true role.
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Is your true
role to get an agenda,
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a political agenda across,
or is your role to make sure
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that America has
a moral conscience?
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And I'm really kind of concerned
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when you have a political agenda
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or a moral agenda
pushed by religious leaders,
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and they can't
clearly and articulate
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speaking truth to power
and we're taking our cues
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from a business community
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as it relates
to Charlottesville.
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I read a lot but
nobody has remarked
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on this in this region,
what you're saying is correct.
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But nobody's remarked
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on a historical
antecedent into this.
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The Reverend Billy
Graham still alive I think,
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but well advanced in years,
but in his earlier iteration
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was the spiritual
advisor to several presidents.
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Right.
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And the types have come
out of some of his discussions
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with the Nixon administration
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and they will
curl you hair, right?
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He invades against Jews big time
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and he recommends bombing
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and wholesale
slaughter in Vietnam, right?
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I believe that
he set a bad model
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and I've actually heard him
say since that he's basically
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maybe disavowed
is the wrong word,
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he's seen that
was a bad dynamic.
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But I believe that he did
what I think is going on now.
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He was in close to
the center of power
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and to maintain that power
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he became part of
the political problem.
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He forgot that
he was, his entree
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was because he was a
minister of the gospel,
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and he became a
political operative.
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And I really
believe the religious
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right have struck a
deal with this administration
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which is reasonable,
that's what administrations do.
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He made statements of good faith
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to uphold their
religious sensibility
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and even their agenda, fine.
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But I think to maintain that
they are along for a rocky road
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that is taking
them already places
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that I'm not sure
pastors should go.
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Like one of them said,
"He may not be perfect,
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but he's ours."
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And that was very, very telling.
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I seem to remember someone said
that at the Council of Nicea.
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That was very,
very, you know, telling,
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you know, in terms
of just saying that
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in terms, you
know, the character
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and the things that
they want to deal with.
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I mean, we shouldn't
criticize the president,
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that isn't really the point,
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but he's not a natural champion
for the people of faith.
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And they should
think his willingness
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to help their
agenda, but shouldn't equate
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his agenda with theirs
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and that's
what's about to happen.
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Yeah, but not only
that they should be able
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to speak truth to power
when it comes to morality
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regardless of
their protocol agenda.
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And I think what is
getting kind of scary
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is when your
motives are not right,
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you can get exposed.
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And I know they're looking
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to get Supreme
Court justices approved
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and with regards to abortion
and some of these other things,
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but if we really look at
what true religious liberty
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is about is the
ability to worship
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to the dictates
of your conscience
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not the
conscience of what you feel
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I should be worshipping for.
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And everybody is different,
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and the thing is this
is not a collective thing
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it's an individual thing.
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The right doesn't own
it more than the left,
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and the moderate doesn't
own it more than anyone else.
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It is an individual choice
that we are trying to protect
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as it relates to the
liberty of conscience.
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And I need to
say something here,
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I mean, I hope it's...
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Well, it's not intended
to be a personal criticism
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as far as the human being.
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But, you know,
on religious liberty
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we deal with different
groups and there are many groups
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that are
defending religious liberty
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or religious
legal issues, right?
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America said the flow
and justice is one of them.
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Okay. They're secular.
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We haven't always
agreed with what he's done,
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but he's done
some wonderful things.
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He's certainly been
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one of the top
figures in this area, right?
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I just can't believe he's joined
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the White House
as the legal counsel.
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I hear him giving legal excuses
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for the most inexcusable things.
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It's just pitiful as
you would expect, right?
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But I think how
have the mighty fallen.
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Here he was on a grand cause
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for religious
liberty argued high causes
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but he's reduced
to passing, parsing,
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passing out the most
crazy little statements
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on this whole
rusher and all the rest.
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I mean that has to
be done. Let's not...
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But, I mean, which
is the higher calling,
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but I think this
followed from this alliance,
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and I just feel sorry and sad.
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It's not a damnable thing
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or anything
illegal not even slightly.
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But I think, you know,
they've gone from the sublime
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to the
ridiculous in all in pursuit
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of this grand alliance.
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I think people in
essence are looking
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for a coherent truth.
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And that truth shouldn't
matter what party is at office.
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The concept of
liberty of conscience
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is irregardless of party,
it is not a partisan issue,
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it's a human rights issue.
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And that's just
something that we have to take,
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you know, very seriously.
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And you have
some people that think
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we need to repeal the judgment.
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And I'm like,
"Absolutely not." No.
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Absolutely not.
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And then like your
African-American churches
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have been
socio-eco that might be true,
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and we do speak
for human rights,
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needs and suffering,
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but we're not
political action centers,
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that is not our role.
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Well, I'll say it again,
I've had a burden on this.
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I agree with the
sentiment of what you're saying.
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But we need to
define terms more closely,
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I listen to a lot of
political talk in Washington.
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And I hear over and over
again on any number of issues
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senators and congressman
making a high point of them,
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and they'll say and I don't want
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to be political on this.
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Now they are political.
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And a lot of what we
say, I was gonna say nine tens
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but it's not true,
but a lot of what we say
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here is political,
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there's nothing wrong with that,
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that is our right even
our obligation in this show,
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what we need to
beware of is partisan.
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That's really what
we mean by partisan.
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Partisan, but it
also bespeaks the motives
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which goes back
whether it's partisan,
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what is your true motive
behind what you're saying.
00:09:03.84\00:09:06.24
But social justice is political.
00:09:06.27\00:09:08.18
Social justice might
be considered political,
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but it's also...
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You're in the
political sphere...
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That's in the
political sphere but...
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You can't avoid it.
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But civil rights, I
guess what I'm saying is
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I don't want to think,
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I don't want us
to neglect the fact
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that these are human beings.
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Now this is my point in
standing for civil rights
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no matter that point in history
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whether Republicans or Democrats
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are supporting or
opposing at that time,
00:09:28.40\00:09:30.77
it's not a partisan issue.
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It's a moral
issue. And we agree.
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You can make it partisan
if you're partisanly inclined.
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Or you can
demonize it as partisan
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and not get involved,
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but then you have this
divide that we have concern.
00:09:40.71\00:09:42.04
So we shouldn't
make any apologies
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for some things
or even apologies for
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it being a political nature.
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The real danger
00:09:47.88\00:09:49.22
and that the
constitution speaks about
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and that we warned
about in our own writings
00:09:50.69\00:09:52.69
in our church is being partisan,
00:09:52.72\00:09:54.99
political in the sense
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so we've got a political agenda,
00:09:56.39\00:09:57.73
we're working with
political animals and so on.
00:09:57.76\00:09:59.76
No, that's not our outlook.
00:09:59.79\00:10:01.40
And Ellen White spoke to
that as regards to slavery.
00:10:01.43\00:10:03.90
We have a history of
speaking truth to power.
00:10:03.93\00:10:06.43
Yes.
00:10:06.47\00:10:07.80
One of the things
that's really important about
00:10:07.84\00:10:09.44
liberty of conscience
as we've talked about it.
00:10:09.47\00:10:12.34
Today is the
importance to worship
00:10:12.37\00:10:14.54
according to the
dictates of your conscience,
00:10:14.58\00:10:17.51
your right to
choose or not to choose.
00:10:17.55\00:10:19.95
And as Public Affairs
and Religious Liberty leaders
00:10:19.98\00:10:23.45
we need to ensure
that we are ensuring
00:10:23.49\00:10:25.62
that liberty of conscience
00:10:25.65\00:10:26.99
for those who might
not even believe like us.
00:10:27.02\00:10:29.76
And I think that gives
us a ministry of integrity,
00:10:29.79\00:10:33.53
a ministry that is open,
and encompassing to everyone
00:10:33.56\00:10:37.60
that might want to be part
00:10:37.63\00:10:39.33
of our Public Affairs
Religious Liberty ministry,
00:10:39.37\00:10:42.27
but once again it's a choice
00:10:42.30\00:10:44.81
that we have to
make and respect,
00:10:44.84\00:10:46.78
whether we agree or disagree.
00:10:46.81\00:10:49.88
Almost 500 years
ago Martin Luther stood
00:10:49.91\00:10:52.71
before the diet of worms
00:10:52.75\00:10:55.22
and defended
himself and his works,
00:10:55.25\00:10:58.15
but if you read his speech
00:10:58.19\00:11:00.62
and figuratively
listen to those words,
00:11:00.66\00:11:03.43
you'll see that what
he was really defending
00:11:03.46\00:11:05.59
was not so much a
theology as his conscience
00:11:05.63\00:11:09.26
and his rights
before God to pursue truth.
00:11:09.30\00:11:13.27
There's no question that today
we're in that same dynamic,
00:11:13.30\00:11:17.57
we need to be sensitive
00:11:17.61\00:11:19.61
to the
convictions that others hold.
00:11:19.64\00:11:22.14
In religious
liberty we're sensitive
00:11:22.18\00:11:23.88
to a wide array of beliefs.
00:11:23.91\00:11:25.91
All need to be
defended because human beings
00:11:25.95\00:11:29.08
have an obligation before God
00:11:29.12\00:11:31.39
to follow their
hearts, and their minds,
00:11:31.42\00:11:33.62
and their convictions,
and their conscience.
00:11:33.66\00:11:36.59
It is our great
privilege I believe to work
00:11:36.62\00:11:40.16
in this context and
in a day and in an age
00:11:40.20\00:11:44.33
when Twitter and all
these other social media
00:11:44.37\00:11:47.54
are diffusing knowledge
00:11:47.57\00:11:49.84
and true
interaction that somewhere,
00:11:49.87\00:11:52.61
somehow we must come back
to the point of conscience
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and a deeply
held human conviction.
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For Liberty Insider,
this is Lincoln Steed.
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