Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000373A
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00:27 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:29 This is the program 00:30 that's designed to bring you news, views, information 00:33 and discussion on some of the religious liberty events 00:36 in the US and around the world. 00:38 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty magazine. 00:42 And my special guest on this program Ed Woods III, 00:47 PARL director from the Lake region 00:49 which is a designation 00:51 within the Seventh-day Adventist church 00:52 for an area that's really based all around Chicago 00:55 and the Great Lakes, right? 00:56 The Great Lakes area. Absolutely. 00:58 There's several states there, quite a big area. 01:01 Let's talk about witnessing and how that's carried on. 01:06 I need to tell you upfront an observation that I've made. 01:08 Sure. 01:10 My father in retirement, he was a church administrator 01:14 but or departmental leader but a pastor at heart. 01:18 The first thing he did, 01:19 he went down to the county offices 01:20 and met the mayor. Absolutely. 01:22 And organize programs with them and so on. 01:26 And as I've traveled around I ask most pastors, 01:29 "Are you part of the local ministers' fraternal?" 01:32 They're not usually. 01:33 Well, the thing is it's on page 25 01:35 in the Minister's Manual. Oh, I know. 01:36 I quoted all this. 01:38 That's why I was surprised when I find out... 01:39 It says they need to be a part of a local ministry alliance 01:42 or a community based organization. 01:44 And let me tell you why that's important 01:46 because you know just from, just from a personal testimony. 01:50 When I was a PARL director 01:51 of the Highland Avenue Seventh-day Adventist Church. 01:52 You know, I started forming relations with the ministers 01:54 but actually my father did. 01:56 My father ran the Dell education program 01:58 and that's how he recruited students 02:00 by forming relation with other pastors 02:01 to get them to get through high school 02:03 but he would take me with them so I could understand. 02:06 Tell you what my dad used to take me... 02:08 And so, you know, how blessed, 02:10 you know, because I did not grow up poor, 02:12 I grew up middle class. 02:13 And he sure there's people there are less fortunate 02:16 and it was more a hands on lesson 02:19 versus a lecture. 02:21 And I didn't know why I had to go 02:22 to Dell education graduation 02:24 but it was more hands on. 02:26 I saw a grandmother, a daughter 02:27 and a granddaughter graduate all the same time 02:29 but it was just, this is reality, 02:31 just don't think because you're going 02:32 to Ruth Murdoch Andrews Academy, 02:34 this is a reality. 02:35 This is a reality where rubber meets the moat. 02:37 And then when I started studying in Ben Harbor 02:39 that was also very humbling experience 02:41 for reality. 02:42 But going back to the Minister's Manual, 02:44 you know, page 25, I read, I'm like, 02:46 if it's not a ministry alliance 02:47 or a community based organization 02:49 and not just pastors also think the church, 02:52 you know, we need to be 02:53 leveraging our connections as well. 02:56 And we had to rejoin the ministry alliance 02:58 and the thing so powerful was 02:59 they're like, "Well, you know, 03:01 we wanted to have Adventist pastors." 03:02 They told us, but they wouldn't come. 03:05 They wouldn't come, they wouldn't participate. 03:07 They say if you're willing to come and participate, 03:09 we'll move our ministry alliance meeting 03:12 from Saturday to another day to accommodate you. 03:15 But you know you've got to come, 03:16 you can't just say, "Oh, well, it's on a Saturday, 03:18 we're not gonna go?" 03:19 You've got to come. 03:21 So they moved it but not only did they move it 03:22 we started having genuine fellowship relationships, 03:26 you know, meeting people, 03:27 you know, fellowships getting to know the different churches. 03:30 And then you find that you have more than common 03:33 then you know, 03:34 I mean, obviously the Sabbath is one thing 03:36 but there's other things where we agree wholeheartedly. 03:40 And I'm not even sure you could debate it. 03:43 Why wouldn't he meet 03:44 with other ministers of religion on the Sabbath? 03:48 I mean, it's truly during church time. 03:49 Yeah, that's true. 03:51 And so that's where the challenge in the morning. 03:52 But you know you mention in passing the service clubs 03:55 in one of my previous jobs 03:57 I used to speak very often in the service clubs 03:59 and I know they're always looking 04:01 for speakers from the community, 04:02 you just offer yourself, 04:04 you're almost certain to be used. 04:05 Rotary Optimist Club, Salvation Army. 04:08 And that I had involved with the community. 04:11 Community, I mean, that's what you have to do. 04:13 I mean, matter of fact just cut tax 04:15 we became a designation site for food. 04:19 But we're not at the table so we can do it. 04:21 And then not only did they do that, 04:23 they turn the food distribution center, 04:24 they hired one of our people to run it. 04:26 So now you have seniors who are in fixed income 04:29 who can use a booze has an opportunity 04:31 but we're not involved. 04:33 And we're missing these opportunities 04:36 and this is a true story, a true story. 04:38 They thought this is... 04:39 and this is one of my very good friends 04:41 who is a pastor. 04:43 And he said, "You know, I feel comfortable 04:45 talking with you now." 04:47 He goes, "But please don't laugh at me." 04:49 I go, "Well, I'm not gonna laugh at you." 04:51 But he goes by feel kind of what is it, 04:53 he goes, "I thought 04:54 in order for you to be a Seventh-day Adventists 04:56 you had to have a college degree." 04:59 Oh, this is another chip fuzz. 05:01 But now it's because of our emphasis on education. 05:04 And I'm like there's a lot of mess 05:06 that we're not even able to address 05:09 because we don't have the relationship or approach 05:11 but of course, you know, 05:13 Ben Harbor is close to Andrews University 05:14 just a perception 05:15 because we don't talk to one another. 05:17 Yeah. 05:18 But by opening that door, 05:19 you know, and moving and attending and participate, 05:22 you know, they're like, 05:23 "When are you guys going to speak for us? 05:25 You know, we want one of your speakers." 05:27 You're getting close to what 05:29 and I won't give enough particulars 05:30 to nail this down 05:32 but a very high public official 05:34 that some of our leaders had dealt with for a long time 05:38 and been involved in many programs. 05:40 I brought him on this program. 05:42 And driving here to the filming we were talking. 05:45 Now he had held positions in one of our organizations, 05:48 honorary position. 05:50 And he said to me, he says, 05:51 are Seventh-day Adventist Protestants. 05:55 I'm thinking, 05:56 "No one ever told you enough of our particulars." 05:59 That's one thing I learn from my father, 06:00 he talked to me about fathers as role models 06:02 and in essence you become a backstop 06:05 or an understudy for their job. 06:07 I saw my father with public officials. 06:09 And I don't think, well, 06:10 he was pushy in a general aggressive sense, 06:12 you know, he was missionary minded. 06:14 But he waited for the moment 06:16 but the moments came very quick. 06:18 He would always tell them that he was an Adventist, 06:20 what we believe, the Christian hope, 06:22 he would move in on that. 06:24 You couldn't have dealt with that 06:26 for more than one meeting, 06:28 not to know the basics 06:30 of his Christian Seventh-day Adventist faith. 06:33 And that should be ground zero, 06:35 we're in public affairs 06:36 and religious liberty, public affairs. 06:39 I mean, the gospel is not just a simple doctrinal statement 06:43 but it's our hope, 06:45 it's the dynamism 06:46 that's behind everything we do on religious liberty. 06:49 And I mean 06:50 but just let's look at it from a biblical standpoint, 06:51 you know when we look at Acts, 06:53 the fight was never over the day of worship, 06:56 the fight was whether or not you believe in the resurrection 06:58 of Jesus Christ. 07:00 And what happened was 07:01 the disciples went back to the priests, 07:04 they didn't beat them up, 07:05 they proclaimed the gospel 07:07 and it says in Acts 6 and 7, they believed and obeyed. 07:11 So in other words by them not just, 07:14 how can I say, meeting amongst themselves 07:16 but meeting with pastors of different faith. 07:18 You know, they were able to form relationships, 07:21 share what they believed 07:23 and as a result of that they believed and obeyed. 07:25 What we want to do is 07:26 we want to go up and beat them up with the Bible 07:28 and tell them why they're wrong. 07:30 And that's not true evangelism. 07:33 I mean, I mean, 07:34 this is great quote in Evangelism, 07:36 page 563 says that 07:37 "Our ministers should seek to come near 07:40 to the ministers of other denominations. 07:42 Pray for and with these men 07:44 for whom Christ is interceding." 07:46 Our ministers are to make it their special work 07:48 to labor for ministers. 07:50 They are not to get in controversy with them 07:53 but with their Bible in hand urge them to study the word, 07:57 it requires much wisdom. 07:59 It didn't tell them they had to convert them 08:01 'cause that's the role of the Holy Spirit. 08:02 Sensitivity. 08:04 To teach ministers and men of influence. 08:05 In other words, the Holy Spirit converts 08:07 and I know we're gonna talk about that later. 08:08 But we don't have, 08:11 we don't invest in the relationships, 08:13 we don't invest in terms of just seeing 08:16 what we can do together, 08:17 why can't we do the seven last words together. 08:19 You know, just an opportunity 08:21 for churches of Christian churches 08:23 from different faiths to come together. 08:25 You know, Easter now granted, 08:26 we believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 08:28 I get the Easter part 08:29 but we do believe in the resurrection. 08:31 I mean, this is not a huge event, 08:33 malls are closed in the Bible Belt. 08:35 I mean, I am out, you see these different things 08:37 and you don't hear 08:39 are emphasizing the resurrection 08:41 and if there was no resurrection, 08:42 there would be no blessed hope. 08:44 Well, that's what Paul says, 08:45 if there's no, if Christ be not raised, 08:47 we're of all people most miserable, 08:49 it's the center of being a Christian. 08:51 But you know even as you're talking 08:52 and this is exciting stuff, 08:54 I hope our viewers get a vision here. 08:57 But religious liberty 08:59 we have that in common with all other people of faith, 09:01 not just Christians. Absolutely. 09:03 This is something, and of course, 09:05 it's the thoroughly biblically based 09:07 but the old truth faiths, you know, honor this. 09:11 I mean, even Islam and it's, 09:14 which we're seeing a very bad manifestation of it. 09:16 But on a simple level, 09:18 they believe in the right of the individual. 09:20 So we have common discussion on religious liberty. 09:23 And invite them, 09:24 we had a imam last year 09:26 at our Public Affairs Religious Liberty 2000 09:28 in a conference in Detroit. 09:29 I've had an email on this program. 09:31 I saw that. 09:32 And he just came in 09:34 and just talked to us about their concerns. 09:35 We brought someone from the Jewish community. 09:38 Unfortunately when we scheduled the conference 09:40 we didn't know it 09:41 but it was the annual convention 09:42 for the Catholic Conference. 09:44 And we wanted to hear what they believe. 09:45 We can't just be so Adventist minded 09:48 that you can't hear 09:49 wherever other people are coming from. 09:51 And the thing is we're more alike than different 09:54 on some of these issues 09:56 but especially as religious liberty 09:58 in terms of the conscience of a person 10:00 to choose to worship 10:01 according to the dictates of their conscience. 10:05 I haven't found anyone yet that's opposed to that. 10:07 No, that's what I keep saying. 10:08 I haven't found anyone. 10:10 Define it wrongly but nobody's against it. 10:12 And that, obviously, well, 10:13 religious liberty has so many definitions 10:15 on some different thing to different people 10:18 but in its purest form 10:19 in terms of to worship or not to worship 10:22 according to the dictates of one's conscience, 10:25 I have not found an entity yet. 10:27 Now there was a period 10:28 in the history of the Roman Catholic Church 10:30 wouldn't have accepted, but since Vatican II they do. 10:32 They do. 10:34 And I had even hoped to have Roman Catholic cardinal 10:37 on this program 10:38 but there's practical reasons 10:40 why I wasn't encouraged that way. 10:42 But I actually asked him, he was ready. 10:44 And the thing is that we have opportunities, 10:48 you know, you know the thing is 10:49 we were at this Public Affairs Religious Liberty Conference 10:51 in New York 10:53 and it's the buzzword 10:54 for the General Conference American division, 10:55 we need to build bridges before we need them, 10:58 you know, we keep hearing these bridges, bridges, bridges. 11:00 And that's not just 11:01 and I guess what I'm saying is 11:02 I'm not strategically looking forward to build bridges, 11:05 I agree with that, 11:06 but if I'm building a bridge, 11:08 I'm not building a bridge because you hold a title, 11:10 I'm building a bridge because I respect you as an individual 11:12 and that relationship will last 11:14 whether you hold that title or not. 11:17 Because so many times we're trying to figure out 11:18 who we need to connect with 11:20 and forget that the title doesn't define the person, 11:23 it's the character 11:24 and whether they hold the title or not 11:25 that relationship will continue. 11:28 Well, something has been said by a fellow 11:31 that we worked with in religious liberty 11:33 is that you get to know these people early 11:35 and then when they fill these positions 11:37 you've got that personal relationship. 11:39 And that's another way of saying, 11:40 we shouldn't go for the position, 11:42 we should be connecting with people. 11:43 And it's very easy at a basic government level 11:46 to connect with councilman and so on. 11:49 And they might become a senator or a congressman later. 11:52 Once they are in those positions 11:53 it's much harder to get through 11:55 and even if you get through 11:56 they sort of inoculated 11:57 against people swarming up to them. 12:00 But even if they don't make it, don't drop the relationship. 12:03 No, no, no, that's my point. 12:05 And people we are connected with... 12:06 With people because I see it happen over and over time, 12:08 we know we have this, we got to take a picture, 12:11 a photo shoot, 12:12 he does take the picture, "See who I am with, 12:14 well, I'm with the governor, I'm with the mayor." 12:16 Okay. Too much like me. 12:17 I've been to many of these events. 12:19 I mean, once we're in these jobs, 12:21 it's not that hard to get yourself invited 12:23 to an event where even a president is speaking. 12:26 And once you're there, there's a lineup, 12:28 people come through in the cameras there, 12:30 you know... 12:32 You can flash that picture it doesn't say anything, 12:34 in fact there was a couple of embarrassing incidents 12:36 that people had been named as terrorist sympathizers 12:39 and financiers had been photographed 12:41 shaking the president's hand. 12:42 He doesn't know them, 12:44 they're just somebody that turned up there. 12:46 So that doesn't prove 12:47 you have a direct relationship at all. 12:49 Absolutely. 12:51 Yeah, the proof is in the pudding 12:52 but if you go there with an attitude 12:54 to connect human beings 12:55 you might get the lucky break. 12:57 But you're more likely to get it on the level 12:58 where local governance or whatever 13:01 where you can connect much more easily. 13:02 As I say our politics is local. Yeah. 13:04 Our politics is local. 13:06 You said that for good reason. 13:08 We need to take a break. 13:10 We'll be back shortly. 13:11 And stay with us. Thank you. |
Revised 2017-11-02