Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is the program
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that's designed to bring
you news, views, information
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and discussion on some of
the religious liberty events
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in the US and around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty magazine.
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And my special guest on
this program Ed Woods III,
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PARL director
from the Lake region
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which is a designation
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within the
Seventh-day Adventist church
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for an area that's
really based all around Chicago
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and the Great Lakes, right?
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The Great Lakes
area. Absolutely.
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There's several states
there, quite a big area.
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Let's talk about witnessing
and how that's carried on.
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I need to tell you upfront
an observation that I've made.
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Sure.
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My father in retirement,
he was a church administrator
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but or departmental
leader but a pastor at heart.
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The first thing he did,
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he went down to
the county offices
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and met the mayor. Absolutely.
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And organize
programs with them and so on.
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And as I've traveled
around I ask most pastors,
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"Are you part of the
local ministers' fraternal?"
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They're not usually.
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Well, the thing
is it's on page 25
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in the Minister's
Manual. Oh, I know.
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I quoted all this.
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That's why I was
surprised when I find out...
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It says they need to be a part
of a local ministry alliance
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or a community
based organization.
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And let me tell you
why that's important
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because you know just from,
just from a personal testimony.
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When I was a PARL director
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of the Highland Avenue
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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You know, I started forming
relations with the ministers
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but actually my father did.
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My father ran the
Dell education program
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and that's how he
recruited students
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by forming
relation with other pastors
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to get them to get
through high school
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but he would take me with
them so I could understand.
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Tell you what my
dad used to take me...
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And so, you know, how blessed,
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you know, because I
did not grow up poor,
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I grew up middle class.
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And he sure there's
people there are less fortunate
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and it was more
a hands on lesson
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versus a lecture.
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And I didn't
know why I had to go
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to Dell education graduation
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but it was more hands on.
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I saw a grandmother, a daughter
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and a granddaughter
graduate all the same time
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but it was
just, this is reality,
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just don't think
because you're going
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to Ruth Murdoch Andrews Academy,
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this is a reality.
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This is a reality
where rubber meets the moat.
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And then when I
started studying in Ben Harbor
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that was also very
humbling experience
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for reality.
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But going back to
the Minister's Manual,
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you know, page
25, I read, I'm like,
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if it's not a ministry alliance
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or a community
based organization
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and not just pastors
also think the church,
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you know, we need to be
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leveraging our
connections as well.
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And we had to rejoin
the ministry alliance
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and the thing so powerful was
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they're like, "Well, you know,
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we wanted to have
Adventist pastors."
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They told us, but
they wouldn't come.
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They wouldn't come,
they wouldn't participate.
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They say if you're
willing to come and participate,
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we'll move our
ministry alliance meeting
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from Saturday to
another day to accommodate you.
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But you know you've got to come,
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you can't just say, "Oh,
well, it's on a Saturday,
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we're not gonna go?"
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You've got to come.
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So they moved it but
not only did they move it
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we started having genuine
fellowship relationships,
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you know, meeting people,
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you know, fellowships getting
to know the different churches.
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And then you find that
you have more than common
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then you know,
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I mean, obviously
the Sabbath is one thing
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but there's other things
where we agree wholeheartedly.
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And I'm not even
sure you could debate it.
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Why wouldn't he meet
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with other ministers of
religion on the Sabbath?
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I mean, it's truly
during church time.
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Yeah, that's true.
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And so that's where the
challenge in the morning.
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But you know you mention
in passing the service clubs
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in one of my previous jobs
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I used to speak very
often in the service clubs
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and I know
they're always looking
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for speakers from the community,
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you just offer yourself,
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you're almost
certain to be used.
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Rotary Optimist
Club, Salvation Army.
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And that I had
involved with the community.
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Community, I mean,
that's what you have to do.
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I mean, matter
of fact just cut tax
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we became a
designation site for food.
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But we're not at the
table so we can do it.
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And then not
only did they do that,
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they turn the food
distribution center,
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they hired one of
our people to run it.
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So now you have
seniors who are in fixed income
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who can use a
booze has an opportunity
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but we're not involved.
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And we're missing
these opportunities
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and this is a true
story, a true story.
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They thought this is...
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and this is one of
my very good friends
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who is a pastor.
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And he said, "You
know, I feel comfortable
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talking with you now."
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He goes, "But
please don't laugh at me."
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I go, "Well, I'm
not gonna laugh at you."
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But he goes by
feel kind of what is it,
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he goes, "I thought
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in order for you to be
a Seventh-day Adventists
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you had to have
a college degree."
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Oh, this is another chip fuzz.
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But now it's because of
our emphasis on education.
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And I'm like
there's a lot of mess
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that we're not
even able to address
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because we don't have
the relationship or approach
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but of course, you know,
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Ben Harbor is close
to Andrews University
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just a perception
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because we don't
talk to one another.
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Yeah.
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But by opening that door,
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you know, and moving and
attending and participate,
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you know, they're like,
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"When are you guys
going to speak for us?
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You know, we want
one of your speakers."
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You're getting close to what
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and I won't give
enough particulars
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to nail this down
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but a very high public official
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that some of our leaders
had dealt with for a long time
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and been
involved in many programs.
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I brought him on this program.
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And driving here to the
filming we were talking.
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Now he had held positions
in one of our organizations,
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honorary position.
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And he said to me, he says,
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are Seventh-day
Adventist Protestants.
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I'm thinking,
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"No one ever told you
enough of our particulars."
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That's one thing I
learn from my father,
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he talked to me about
fathers as role models
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and in essence
you become a backstop
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or an understudy for their job.
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I saw my father
with public officials.
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And I don't think, well,
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he was pushy in a
general aggressive sense,
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you know, he was
missionary minded.
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But he waited for the moment
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but the moments came very quick.
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He would always tell
them that he was an Adventist,
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what we believe,
the Christian hope,
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he would move in on that.
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You couldn't
have dealt with that
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for more than one meeting,
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not to know the basics
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of his Christian
Seventh-day Adventist faith.
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And that should be ground zero,
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we're in public affairs
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and religious
liberty, public affairs.
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I mean, the gospel is not just
a simple doctrinal statement
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but it's our hope,
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it's the dynamism
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that's behind everything
we do on religious liberty.
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And I mean
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but just let's look at it
from a biblical standpoint,
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you know when we look at Acts,
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the fight was never
over the day of worship,
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the fight was whether or not
you believe in the resurrection
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of Jesus Christ.
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And what happened was
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the disciples went
back to the priests,
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they didn't beat them up,
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they proclaimed the gospel
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and it says in Acts 6 and
7, they believed and obeyed.
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So in other
words by them not just,
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how can I say,
meeting amongst themselves
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but meeting with
pastors of different faith.
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You know, they were
able to form relationships,
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share what they believed
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and as a result of that
they believed and obeyed.
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What we want to do is
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we want to go up and
beat them up with the Bible
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and tell them why they're wrong.
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And that's not true evangelism.
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I mean, I mean,
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this is great
quote in Evangelism,
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page 563 says that
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"Our ministers
should seek to come near
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to the ministers of
other denominations.
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Pray for and with these men
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for whom Christ is interceding."
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Our ministers are to
make it their special work
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to labor for ministers.
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They are not to get
in controversy with them
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but with their Bible in hand
urge them to study the word,
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it requires much wisdom.
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It didn't tell them
they had to convert them
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'cause that's the
role of the Holy Spirit.
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Sensitivity.
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To teach ministers
and men of influence.
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In other words, the
Holy Spirit converts
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and I know we're
gonna talk about that later.
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But we don't have,
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we don't invest
in the relationships,
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we don't invest in
terms of just seeing
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what we can do together,
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why can't we do the
seven last words together.
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You know, just an opportunity
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for churches of
Christian churches
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from different
faiths to come together.
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You know, Easter now granted,
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we believe in the
resurrection of Jesus Christ.
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I get the Easter part
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but we do believe
in the resurrection.
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I mean, this is
not a huge event,
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malls are closed
in the Bible Belt.
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I mean, I am out, you
see these different things
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and you don't hear
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are emphasizing the resurrection
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and if there
was no resurrection,
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there would be no blessed hope.
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Well, that's what Paul says,
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if there's no, if
Christ be not raised,
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we're of all
people most miserable,
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it's the center
of being a Christian.
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But you know
even as you're talking
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and this is exciting stuff,
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I hope our
viewers get a vision here.
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But religious liberty
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we have that in common
with all other people of faith,
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not just Christians. Absolutely.
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This is
something, and of course,
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it's the
thoroughly biblically based
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but the old truth
faiths, you know, honor this.
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I mean, even Islam and it's,
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which we're seeing a
very bad manifestation of it.
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But on a simple level,
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they believe in the
right of the individual.
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So we have common
discussion on religious liberty.
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And invite them,
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we had a imam last year
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at our Public Affairs
Religious Liberty 2000
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in a conference in Detroit.
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I've had an
email on this program.
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I saw that.
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And he just came in
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and just talked to
us about their concerns.
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We brought someone
from the Jewish community.
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Unfortunately when we
scheduled the conference
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we didn't know it
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but it was the annual convention
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for the Catholic Conference.
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And we wanted to
hear what they believe.
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We can't just be
so Adventist minded
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that you can't hear
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wherever other
people are coming from.
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And the thing is we're
more alike than different
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on some of these issues
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but especially
as religious liberty
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in terms of the
conscience of a person
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to choose to worship
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according to the
dictates of their conscience.
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I haven't found anyone
yet that's opposed to that.
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No, that's what I keep saying.
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I haven't found anyone.
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Define it wrongly
but nobody's against it.
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And that, obviously, well,
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religious liberty
has so many definitions
00:10:13.98\00:10:15.74
on some different
thing to different people
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but in its purest form
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in terms of to
worship or not to worship
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according to the
dictates of one's conscience,
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I have not found an entity yet.
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Now there was a period
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in the history of
the Roman Catholic Church
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wouldn't have accepted,
but since Vatican II they do.
00:10:30.26\00:10:32.79
They do.
00:10:32.83\00:10:34.16
And I had even hoped to
have Roman Catholic cardinal
00:10:34.20\00:10:37.30
on this program
00:10:37.33\00:10:38.67
but there's practical reasons
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why I wasn't
encouraged that way.
00:10:40.07\00:10:42.27
But I actually
asked him, he was ready.
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And the thing is that
we have opportunities,
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you know, you know the thing is
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we were at this Public Affairs
Religious Liberty Conference
00:10:49.94\00:10:51.81
in New York
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and it's the buzzword
00:10:53.21\00:10:54.55
for the General
Conference American division,
00:10:54.58\00:10:55.92
we need to build
bridges before we need them,
00:10:55.95\00:10:58.05
you know, we keep hearing
these bridges, bridges, bridges.
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And that's not just
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and I guess what I'm saying is
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I'm not strategically looking
forward to build bridges,
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I agree with that,
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but if I'm building a bridge,
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I'm not building a
bridge because you hold a title,
00:11:08.10\00:11:10.33
I'm building a bridge because
I respect you as an individual
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and that relationship will last
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whether you hold
that title or not.
00:11:14.87\00:11:16.97
Because so many times
we're trying to figure out
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who we need to connect with
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and forget that the title
doesn't define the person,
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it's the character
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and whether they
hold the title or not
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that relationship will continue.
00:11:25.78\00:11:28.48
Well, something has
been said by a fellow
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that we worked with
in religious liberty
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is that you get to
know these people early
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and then when they
fill these positions
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you've got that
personal relationship.
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And that's
another way of saying,
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we shouldn't go
for the position,
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we should be
connecting with people.
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And it's very easy at
a basic government level
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to connect with
councilman and so on.
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And they might become a
senator or a congressman later.
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Once they are in those positions
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it's much harder to get through
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and even if you get through
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they sort of inoculated
00:11:56.54\00:11:57.88
against people
swarming up to them.
00:11:57.91\00:12:00.28
But even if they don't make
it, don't drop the relationship.
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No, no, no, that's my point.
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And people we
are connected with...
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With people because I see
it happen over and over time,
00:12:06.65\00:12:08.62
we know we have this,
we got to take a picture,
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a photo shoot,
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he does take the
picture, "See who I am with,
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well, I'm with the
governor, I'm with the mayor."
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Okay. Too much like me.
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I've been to
many of these events.
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I mean, once
we're in these jobs,
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it's not that hard
to get yourself invited
00:12:21.37\00:12:23.64
to an event where even
a president is speaking.
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And once you're
there, there's a lineup,
00:12:26.54\00:12:28.91
people come through
in the cameras there,
00:12:28.94\00:12:30.28
you know...
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You can flash that
picture it doesn't say anything,
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in fact there was a
couple of embarrassing incidents
00:12:34.42\00:12:36.95
that people had been
named as terrorist sympathizers
00:12:36.99\00:12:39.42
and financiers
had been photographed
00:12:39.45\00:12:41.46
shaking the president's hand.
00:12:41.49\00:12:42.82
He doesn't know them,
00:12:42.86\00:12:44.19
they're just
somebody that turned up there.
00:12:44.23\00:12:46.09
So that doesn't prove
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you have a direct
relationship at all.
00:12:47.50\00:12:49.60
Absolutely.
00:12:49.63\00:12:50.97
Yeah, the proof
is in the pudding
00:12:51.00\00:12:52.33
but if you go
there with an attitude
00:12:52.37\00:12:54.50
to connect human beings
00:12:54.54\00:12:55.87
you might get the lucky break.
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But you're more
likely to get it on the level
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where local
governance or whatever
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where you can
connect much more easily.
00:13:01.04\00:13:02.48
As I say our
politics is local. Yeah.
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Our politics is local.
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You said that for good reason.
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We need to take a break.
00:13:08.02\00:13:10.25
We'll be back shortly.
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And stay with us. Thank you.
00:13:11.69\00:13:13.19