Participants:
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000371A
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00:26 Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
00:28 This is a program bringing you news, views, 00:30 updates, discussion on religious liberty events 00:34 in the US and around the world. 00:36 My name is Lincoln Steed, editor of Liberty Magazine, 00:39 and my guest on this program is Ed Woods III. 00:46 Good friend. Welcome. 00:47 Thank you, Lincoln. 00:48 Thank you for having me on the show. 00:50 My pleasure. 00:51 Huge proponent of Public Affairs 00:53 and Religious Liberty and appreciate the work 00:54 that you do with Liberty Magazine 00:56 as we were talking earlier. 00:57 We go way back to Lister. Yeah. 00:59 So it's the L-L, and I guess we have to have 01:00 the love between us. 01:02 But I really appreciate what you're doing. 01:05 I'll pay you the retainer later for being rational. 01:07 Oh, that's fine. 01:09 That's fine as long as it's not McDonalds. 01:12 But I should say there's a postscript there 01:15 that should've given your position, 01:17 but your functioning is the Public Affairs 01:18 and Religious Liberty director in the Lake Region 01:22 which is based in Chicago although you live 01:23 in Lansing, Michigan. 01:25 I do but we do get around Lake Region Conference 01:27 and compasses entire State of Michigan, Indiana, 01:30 Illinois, Wisconsin, 01:32 and we have a church in Minneapolis, Minnesota. 01:34 Very good. Now I see you more and more. 01:37 And I know that you're on fire for religious liberty. 01:40 Tell me what your overview as... 01:43 What is religious liberty mean for you? 01:45 Let's start with the basics so I do this now and then, 01:46 but I've even written editorials on religious liberty 01:49 and no one is against it. 01:51 I've never met anybody against religious liberty 01:53 but everybody defines it differently. 01:56 Why is it important and what is it? 01:58 I take the PARL, Public Affairs of Religious Liberty 02:02 literally and intentionally. 02:04 I know we say religious liberty but as you know 02:07 was founded in 1902 and it's really called 02:08 the Department of Public Affairs 02:10 to Religious Liberty, and I see it as a ministry. 02:14 If you look at our 02:15 Public Affairs Religious Liberty ministry, 02:17 they usually call it Religious Liberty Sabbath. 02:19 And it mainly consists supporting Liberty Magazine, 02:23 which I do, faithful contributor, 02:26 and definitely do the subscription supplement 02:28 in Lake Region, 02:30 we talk about Sabbath accommodation later, 02:33 and then we might talk about legislative updates 02:36 or court case as it relates to religious liberty, 02:39 but we really don't work with the public affairs aspect. 02:43 Not during the campaign much. 02:44 Well, not during the campaign but as a ministry. 02:47 I mean, I believe, Liberty Magazine 02:48 is some of the thing that we should do, 02:50 but how does that impact the person in the local church 02:54 in terms of the pew? 02:55 You know, we have this great Religious Liberty Sabbath 02:57 as we call it on the 4th January of every year. 02:59 This is within the Seventh-day Adventist Church. 03:01 Within the Seventh-day Adventist Church. 03:02 We do the liberty campaign, you know, 03:04 we turn it in with the Marjorie Mentis. 03:06 Although, I should say something 03:07 especially in North America if any of our viewers 03:10 are interested in promoting religious liberty, 03:12 we will go anywhere, any church, any occasion. 03:15 Absolutely. 03:16 And you did a great job, you're just with us 03:18 a couple of weeks ago in Chicago 03:19 and I appreciate the insights 03:21 and gave a sterling presentation about 03:23 what's happening with liberty conscience 03:25 around the world. 03:26 But when we're looking at Public Affairs 03:27 Religious Liberty, we base it on the golden rule, 03:30 "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." 03:32 Right. 03:33 I respect your right to choose, you respect my right to choose. 03:36 And that's just something I just think 03:38 we have to really understand at a basic level 03:41 because when people hear about religious liberty, 03:43 they go through, "This is what we do." 03:45 But they really don't talk about the ministry, 03:47 they don't talk about the networking, 03:48 the building relationships. 03:49 Let me put a pause on what you said, 03:51 "Respecting someone's right to choose." 03:52 To me, it's the same dynamic 03:54 that the US is troubling through 03:56 at the moment on free speech. 03:57 Okay. 03:59 Everyone is for free speech and yet at the moment 04:01 they're objecting to, you know, some of these nefarious groups 04:05 having a chance to say their piece in the streets. 04:07 Free speech is only really proven to be affect 04:11 when you allow someone to speak freely 04:13 on what you find are apart. 04:15 Well, of course, there is a bias to free speech. 04:17 Right. 04:18 And on religious liberty, we know that the worst aspect 04:23 of religious liberty is toleration. 04:25 In other words, you dislike the other 04:27 or may dislike the other people of faith, 04:30 but you allow them because you believe 04:31 in religious liberty, no. 04:33 True religious liberty believer is the child of God knows that 04:37 everybody has this inherent right 04:39 and you respected to believe whatever they move toward. 04:42 Whether you disagree or not. Right. 04:44 And you don't focus on the disagreement, you know, 04:46 they have as much right to hold that view 04:48 as you do on your faith perspective, 04:50 which of course you and I believe 04:52 what we hold is correct. 04:54 We need to grant other people with same view. 04:55 But we serve a God of choice. Right. 04:57 If we didn't, we wouldn't have a devil. 05:00 Sounds like a whole program here. 05:02 And then we talk about public affairs. 05:05 You know, and the thing is when we talk 05:06 about public affairs, what does that mean? 05:09 A man that has many friends must show himself friendly, 05:11 and we have a friend that treat us 05:12 closer than a brother, we talk about Jesus in Proverbs. 05:15 Public affairs is simply being nice to everybody 05:19 regardless of their orientation, 05:21 regardless of their beliefs. 05:23 "Hello, Lincoln, how are you? 05:25 The only time I'm speaking, greet you as my brother." 05:27 And then in the church, we're missing the whole bowl, 05:29 there's six other days 05:31 where we could actually be nice. 05:32 Yeah, there's no question that the public affairs 05:35 as the Seventh-day Adventist Church runs it. 05:37 To some degree it's public relations 05:40 for the churches and organizations 05:41 and that's not wrong presenting ourself favorably 05:44 as an organizational or a body of believers to others. 05:48 And I'm not against the public relations aspect, 05:51 but I also public affairs there's also be an interest 05:53 in what's going on in your community. 05:55 Of course. 05:56 I mean, what's happening in your community, do you know? 05:58 I mean, the community shouldn't see you 06:00 every six months when you're passing 06:01 evangelistic track. 06:03 Yeah. How about, "How are you? 06:04 Do I know your name?" 06:06 I mean, I tell you, in Lake Region 06:07 we say people shouldn't know us, 06:09 we should know people by their names, 06:10 they should know us by our traffic patterns. 06:12 And so they know we come to church 06:14 on Sabbath to do worship. 06:15 You've done this, I've done this actually not by choice 06:16 but a few times going to appointments 06:18 I've gotten lost, this was years ago, 06:20 GPS maps takes most of that away. 06:22 Although every now and again 06:23 you'll get a false address on GPS 06:26 and you're not really where you think you are. 06:28 And a few times I've been reduced 06:30 to asking door to door, "Where is this church?" 06:33 I remember, well, I can say where it is, 06:35 I won't say what city. 06:36 But in Canada, I went to a particular church 06:38 it was a long street, what it turned out 06:41 was a long street with numbers that went one way, 06:43 and numbers that went the other 06:45 and the church I was looking for 06:47 initially on the wrong side of the break. 06:50 But eventually I was asking questions 06:52 and I hounding on it. 06:53 And I remember, I think 06:55 two doors down from this church, 06:58 "Do you know of the Seventh-day Adventist Church here?" 07:00 "No, never heard of such a thing." 07:01 "Really?" They're the neighbors. 07:04 And I've done it a number of times 07:06 and amazingly often and perhaps its true 07:08 of most churches not just any of my church. 07:13 The neighbors don't even know they exist, 07:15 let alone what they believe or anything. 07:18 Well, part of it is we don't really engage 07:19 our neighborhood. 07:21 I mean, you got to engage you more than 07:22 just evangelistic season. 07:23 They need to know that one of our churches burned out, 07:27 it would be a serious impact on the community. 07:29 Loss for community, yeah. Because they knew us. 07:32 Whether we hosted to parent teacher association meetings, 07:35 whether we participated in the neighborhood block clubs, 07:38 whether we did health screenings, 07:40 whether we did the ice creams socials, 07:42 our churches should be an integral part 07:44 of the community not for disaster 07:46 when community serves to steps in, 07:48 but simply by being nice and being neighborly 07:51 to the people surrounding our church. 07:53 And the challenge is we have, we're commuters. 07:56 We come in, we come out, we come in, and come out. 07:58 But we don't want our churches to be vandalized or ruined, 08:01 so why can't we support our neighbors around the church 08:04 who also don't want their houses 08:05 to be vandalizing more. 08:06 Now you've been around this work for a while, 08:09 you probably remember the religious line used 08:11 and institutionalize workers at, remember? 08:13 I think Nick had a part of that, 08:14 he talk about that, not too unprofessional. 08:16 And the big reason for the need for that legislation 08:19 was a phenomenon that's ongoing actually 08:21 even though that the law was strengthened 08:23 where communities resent a church coming 08:26 and building in the neighborhood 08:28 because more and more 08:29 the members come from somewhere else. 08:30 That's right. 08:32 And to me it's as much as sociological problem 08:35 as it is a religious liberty issue. 08:38 And as a matter of sociology or sociability, 08:42 what you say is very true. 08:44 Regardless of where the members come from, 08:45 if the church is planted in that neighborhood, 08:48 it needs to take some practical human steps 08:50 to be integrated into that neighborhood. 08:52 And they should know people by name. 08:54 Right. What a novel idea. 08:56 Know people by name so you can talk to people 08:58 and they should feel comfortable 09:00 coming to the church. 09:01 You should have activities for them 09:03 to come to the church that are non-religious in nature 09:06 so that you can actually build a relationship. 09:09 I mean, just think you're gonna build a relationship 09:11 by giving them an evangelistic track 09:13 is backwards, you've got to build those relationships. 09:16 And I believe the PARL ministry is a unique ministry 09:20 where it can build these relationships 09:22 in the community. 09:23 And we got to take advantage of that. 09:24 And at the same time we can't expect, you know, 09:28 in terms of, okay, we've been at this, 09:29 in five months we haven't got any baptisms. 09:31 I'm not into those, I believe in baptism, 09:33 I am baptized, let's be clear, but I don't put a timeline 09:37 on the Holy Ghost. 09:38 I mean, there are people who need conversion, 09:40 I get that, but I'm not building relationship 09:43 to get them into the pool, I'm building a relationship 09:45 because I care about them. 09:47 Absolutely. 09:48 And so many times we do these things 09:50 like these what I call felt need. 09:52 You know, we're about to do an evangelistic event 09:54 where we're going into the community, 09:55 getting these addresses and emails, 09:57 and trying to make the felt need 09:59 but after that we're done with them. 10:01 But what you're saying goes back to the best parts 10:03 of early Americana, did you know that? 10:05 You know, one of figures that we speak about often 10:08 in religious liberty is Roger Williams 10:10 and his difference from the colony there at Boston 10:17 and he was sent out into the wilderness, remember? 10:19 And it was the Indians that supported him, 10:22 and then he established Rhode Island. 10:24 But did you know that he didn't baptize any Indians? 10:27 And he had a great burden to preach religion to them, 10:32 but he said it over and over again, 10:34 his business was not baptizing them 10:36 it was relating to them. 10:37 He respected them. 10:39 In fact, I discovered recently, he respected them so much, 10:41 he believed they were the lost tribe of Israel. 10:44 I'm not sure upon that theology. 10:45 Well, I don't know about the either theologically, 10:47 but I do know... 10:48 But he wasn't fixated on in South America, of course, 10:52 the colonial power took a different attack 10:57 but it was dedicated to changing them, 10:59 forcing them into this new mold, he didn't do that, 11:01 he respected them as human beings. 11:03 You know, that's like Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God 11:05 in Jonathan Edwards. 11:07 I mean, that was my original introduction 11:09 to religious liberty. 11:11 And I'm like these scared tactics don't work. 11:14 We have to know that people know that 11:16 they do have a choice and God has given us a choice. 11:19 I agree with you but down the line, 11:21 I'll say facetiously one of my favorite preachers. 11:24 You know, he had another sermon 11:25 that I quote many times and I'm doing this for a reason 11:28 because I love the other sermon. 11:29 The title of it was The Expulsive Power 11:33 of a New Affection. 11:35 Okay. You think that's true? 11:36 I think that it's still not our turn of phrase 11:39 for the day, but it explains very well the dynamic 11:42 of the new birth when you come to God. 11:44 When you have a new love, the old things fade away. 11:47 It's the expulsive power of a new affection, I have a... 11:49 Any man be in Christ Jesus is a new creature, 11:51 old things have passed away, behold all things are new. 11:53 I have a teenage son... But it's a choice. 11:55 And I see this worked out often when his girlfriends... 11:58 Well, look, I mean, we have to understand that 12:00 people have a choice and for some reason or another, 12:03 you know, we wanna make... 12:05 We wanna quantify that choice into baptisms. 12:07 And I just think we have missed the boat 12:09 because we have not been genuinely interested 12:12 to public affairs aspect 12:13 about what's happening that are impacting 12:15 the community surrounding the church. 12:18 And that's not just community services. 12:21 You know, what's happening? What's crime? 12:23 Why are we not walking with the neighborhood crime 12:25 watch around our church? 12:27 I don't care where you live commuter, 12:28 why aren't we participating in that? 12:30 Granted, it might not be an Adventist school 12:32 but it's a public school, why are we not helping? 12:34 Don't we wanna these students... 12:36 I want social security, maybe yours is okay, 12:38 mine is in doubt. 12:40 But why are we investing in terms of helping making sure 12:43 the kids have the resources and the needs 12:46 that they may in the future. 12:47 These are things that can, how could we say, stand apart. 12:50 You know, love is just more than just preaching the Bible, 12:55 love is also a behavior when you interact 12:58 and show compassion with one to another. 12:59 Well, it's putting into action. 13:00 And so I think that's some of the things 13:03 that the local ministry in terms of making it something 13:06 that we get the people in the seats as members to do 13:09 to have a paradigm shift in seeing Public Affairs 13:12 and Religious Liberty as a ministry 13:14 versus the service. 13:15 Yeah. And I really like the... 13:17 It's not a twist because it's really a rediscovery 13:20 of what's implicit in public affairs. 13:24 And so, you know, you're on the right track. 13:26 And we need to talk about this a little further 13:28 so we'll take a short break, then we'll be back 13:31 with Ed Woods III, 13:35 to further this discussion of public affairs 13:38 and its wider implications. 13:40 We'll be back. |
Revised 2017-10-26