Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is a program
bringing you news, views,
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updates, discussion on
religious liberty events
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in the US and around the world.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty Magazine,
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and my guest on this
program is Ed Woods III.
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Good friend. Welcome.
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Thank you, Lincoln.
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Thank you for
having me on the show.
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My pleasure.
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Huge proponent of Public Affairs
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and Religious Liberty
and appreciate the work
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that you do
with Liberty Magazine
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as we were talking earlier.
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We go way back to Lister. Yeah.
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So it's the L-L, and
I guess we have to have
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the love between us.
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But I really
appreciate what you're doing.
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I'll pay you the retainer
later for being rational.
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Oh, that's fine.
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That's fine as long
as it's not McDonalds.
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But I should say
there's a postscript there
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that should've
given your position,
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but your functioning
is the Public Affairs
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and Religious Liberty
director in the Lake Region
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which is based in
Chicago although you live
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in Lansing, Michigan.
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I do but we do get
around Lake Region Conference
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and compasses entire
State of Michigan, Indiana,
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Illinois, Wisconsin,
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and we have a church
in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
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Very good. Now I
see you more and more.
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And I know that you're on
fire for religious liberty.
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Tell me what your overview as...
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What is religious
liberty mean for you?
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Let's start with the basics
so I do this now and then,
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but I've even written
editorials on religious liberty
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and no one is against it.
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I've never met anybody
against religious liberty
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but everybody
defines it differently.
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Why is it
important and what is it?
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I take the PARL, Public
Affairs of Religious Liberty
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literally and intentionally.
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I know we say religious
liberty but as you know
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was founded in 1902
and it's really called
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the Department of Public Affairs
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to Religious Liberty,
and I see it as a ministry.
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If you look at our
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Public Affairs
Religious Liberty ministry,
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they usually call it
Religious Liberty Sabbath.
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And it mainly consists
supporting Liberty Magazine,
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which I do,
faithful contributor,
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and definitely do the
subscription supplement
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in Lake Region,
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we talk about
Sabbath accommodation later,
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and then we might talk
about legislative updates
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or court case as it
relates to religious liberty,
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but we really don't work
with the public affairs aspect.
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Not during the campaign much.
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Well, not during the
campaign but as a ministry.
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I mean, I
believe, Liberty Magazine
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is some of the
thing that we should do,
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but how does that impact
the person in the local church
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in terms of the pew?
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You know, we have this
great Religious Liberty Sabbath
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as we call it on the
4th January of every year.
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This is within the
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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Within the
Seventh-day Adventist Church.
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We do the liberty
campaign, you know,
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we turn it in with
the Marjorie Mentis.
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Although, I should say something
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especially in North
America if any of our viewers
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are interested in
promoting religious liberty,
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we will go anywhere,
any church, any occasion.
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Absolutely.
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And you did a great
job, you're just with us
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a couple of weeks ago in Chicago
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and I appreciate the insights
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and gave a
sterling presentation about
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what's happening
with liberty conscience
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around the world.
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But when we're
looking at Public Affairs
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Religious Liberty, we
base it on the golden rule,
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"Do unto others as you
would have them do unto you."
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Right.
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I respect your right to choose,
you respect my right to choose.
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And that's just
something I just think
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we have to really
understand at a basic level
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because when people
hear about religious liberty,
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they go through,
"This is what we do."
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But they really don't
talk about the ministry,
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they don't talk
about the networking,
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the building relationships.
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Let me put a
pause on what you said,
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"Respecting
someone's right to choose."
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To me, it's the same dynamic
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that the US is troubling through
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at the moment on free speech.
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Okay.
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Everyone is for free
speech and yet at the moment
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they're objecting to, you know,
some of these nefarious groups
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having a chance to say
their piece in the streets.
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Free speech is only
really proven to be affect
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when you allow
someone to speak freely
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on what you find are apart.
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Well, of course, there
is a bias to free speech.
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Right.
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And on religious liberty,
we know that the worst aspect
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of religious
liberty is toleration.
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In other words,
you dislike the other
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or may dislike the
other people of faith,
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but you allow them
because you believe
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in religious liberty, no.
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True religious liberty believer
is the child of God knows that
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everybody has
this inherent right
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and you respected to believe
whatever they move toward.
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Whether you
disagree or not. Right.
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And you don't focus on
the disagreement, you know,
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they have as much
right to hold that view
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as you do on your
faith perspective,
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which of course
you and I believe
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what we hold is correct.
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We need to grant
other people with same view.
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But we serve a
God of choice. Right.
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If we didn't, we
wouldn't have a devil.
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Sounds like a
whole program here.
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And then we talk
about public affairs.
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You know, and the
thing is when we talk
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about public
affairs, what does that mean?
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A man that has many friends
must show himself friendly,
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and we have a
friend that treat us
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closer than a brother, we
talk about Jesus in Proverbs.
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Public affairs is
simply being nice to everybody
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regardless of their orientation,
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regardless of their beliefs.
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"Hello, Lincoln, how are you?
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The only time I'm speaking,
greet you as my brother."
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And then in the church,
we're missing the whole bowl,
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there's six other days
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where we could actually be nice.
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Yeah, there's no
question that the public affairs
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as the Seventh-day
Adventist Church runs it.
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To some degree
it's public relations
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for the churches
and organizations
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and that's not wrong
presenting ourself favorably
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as an organizational or a
body of believers to others.
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And I'm not against the
public relations aspect,
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but I also public affairs
there's also be an interest
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in what's going
on in your community.
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Of course.
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I mean, what's happening in
your community, do you know?
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I mean, the
community shouldn't see you
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every six months
when you're passing
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evangelistic track.
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Yeah. How about, "How are you?
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Do I know your name?"
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I mean, I tell
you, in Lake Region
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we say people shouldn't know us,
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we should know
people by their names,
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they should know us
by our traffic patterns.
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And so they know
we come to church
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on Sabbath to do worship.
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You've done this, I've
done this actually not by choice
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but a few times
going to appointments
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I've gotten lost,
this was years ago,
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GPS maps takes
most of that away.
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Although every now and again
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you'll get a
false address on GPS
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and you're not really
where you think you are.
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And a few times
I've been reduced
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to asking door to
door, "Where is this church?"
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I remember, well, I
can say where it is,
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I won't say what city.
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But in Canada, I went
to a particular church
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it was a long
street, what it turned out
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was a long street with
numbers that went one way,
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and numbers that went the other
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and the church I was looking for
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initially on the
wrong side of the break.
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But eventually I
was asking questions
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and I hounding on it.
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And I remember, I think
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two doors down from this church,
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"Do you know of the Seventh-day
Adventist Church here?"
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"No, never heard
of such a thing."
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"Really?" They're the neighbors.
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And I've done it
a number of times
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and amazingly often
and perhaps its true
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of most churches not
just any of my church.
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The neighbors don't
even know they exist,
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let alone what they
believe or anything.
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Well, part of it is
we don't really engage
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our neighborhood.
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I mean, you got to
engage you more than
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just evangelistic season.
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They need to know that one
of our churches burned out,
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it would be a serious
impact on the community.
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Loss for community,
yeah. Because they knew us.
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Whether we hosted to parent
teacher association meetings,
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whether we participated in
the neighborhood block clubs,
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whether we did
health screenings,
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whether we did the
ice creams socials,
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our churches
should be an integral part
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of the
community not for disaster
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when community
serves to steps in,
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but simply by being
nice and being neighborly
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to the people
surrounding our church.
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And the challenge is
we have, we're commuters.
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We come in, we come out,
we come in, and come out.
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But we don't want our churches
to be vandalized or ruined,
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so why can't we support
our neighbors around the church
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who also don't want their houses
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to be vandalizing more.
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Now you've been
around this work for a while,
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you probably remember
the religious line used
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and institutionalize
workers at, remember?
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I think Nick had a part of that,
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he talk about that,
not too unprofessional.
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And the big reason for
the need for that legislation
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was a phenomenon
that's ongoing actually
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even though that
the law was strengthened
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where communities
resent a church coming
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and building in the neighborhood
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because more and more
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the members come
from somewhere else.
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That's right.
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And to me it's as much
as sociological problem
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as it is a
religious liberty issue.
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And as a matter of
sociology or sociability,
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what you say is very true.
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Regardless of where
the members come from,
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if the church is
planted in that neighborhood,
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it needs to take
some practical human steps
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to be integrated
into that neighborhood.
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And they should
know people by name.
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Right. What a novel idea.
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Know people by name
so you can talk to people
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and they should feel comfortable
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coming to the church.
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You should have
activities for them
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to come to the church that
are non-religious in nature
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so that you can
actually build a relationship.
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I mean, just think you're
gonna build a relationship
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by giving them an
evangelistic track
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is backwards, you've got
to build those relationships.
00:09:13.38\00:09:16.62
And I believe the PARL
ministry is a unique ministry
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where it can build
these relationships
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in the community.
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And we got to
take advantage of that.
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And at the same time
we can't expect, you know,
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in terms of, okay,
we've been at this,
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in five months we
haven't got any baptisms.
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I'm not into those,
I believe in baptism,
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I am baptized, let's be clear,
but I don't put a timeline
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on the Holy Ghost.
00:09:37.11\00:09:38.44
I mean, there are
people who need conversion,
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I get that, but I'm
not building relationship
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to get them into the pool,
I'm building a relationship
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because I care about them.
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Absolutely.
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And so many times
we do these things
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like these what
I call felt need.
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You know, we're about
to do an evangelistic event
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where we're going
into the community,
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getting these
addresses and emails,
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and trying to make the felt need
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but after that
we're done with them.
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But what you're saying
goes back to the best parts
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of early
Americana, did you know that?
00:10:03.40\00:10:05.57
You know, one of figures
that we speak about often
00:10:05.60\00:10:08.30
in religious
liberty is Roger Williams
00:10:08.34\00:10:10.77
and his difference from
the colony there at Boston
00:10:10.81\00:10:17.51
and he was sent out into
the wilderness, remember?
00:10:17.55\00:10:19.61
And it was the
Indians that supported him,
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and then he
established Rhode Island.
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But did you know that he
didn't baptize any Indians?
00:10:24.89\00:10:27.62
And he had a great burden
to preach religion to them,
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but he said it
over and over again,
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his business was
not baptizing them
00:10:34.16\00:10:36.53
it was relating to them.
00:10:36.56\00:10:37.90
He respected them.
00:10:37.93\00:10:39.27
In fact, I discovered recently,
he respected them so much,
00:10:39.30\00:10:41.47
he believed they were
the lost tribe of Israel.
00:10:41.50\00:10:44.47
I'm not sure upon that theology.
00:10:44.51\00:10:45.84
Well, I don't know about
the either theologically,
00:10:45.87\00:10:47.21
but I do know...
00:10:47.24\00:10:48.58
But he wasn't fixated on
in South America, of course,
00:10:48.61\00:10:52.75
the colonial power
took a different attack
00:10:52.78\00:10:57.65
but it was
dedicated to changing them,
00:10:57.69\00:10:59.69
forcing them into this
new mold, he didn't do that,
00:10:59.72\00:11:01.49
he respected
them as human beings.
00:11:01.52\00:11:03.66
You know, that's like Sinners
in the Hands of an Angry God
00:11:03.69\00:11:05.89
in Jonathan Edwards.
00:11:05.93\00:11:07.26
I mean, that was my
original introduction
00:11:07.30\00:11:09.90
to religious liberty.
00:11:09.93\00:11:11.27
And I'm like these
scared tactics don't work.
00:11:11.30\00:11:14.60
We have to know
that people know that
00:11:14.64\00:11:15.97
they do have a choice and
God has given us a choice.
00:11:16.00\00:11:19.11
I agree with you
but down the line,
00:11:19.14\00:11:21.38
I'll say facetiously one
of my favorite preachers.
00:11:21.41\00:11:24.15
You know, he had another sermon
00:11:24.18\00:11:25.81
that I quote many times
and I'm doing this for a reason
00:11:25.85\00:11:28.02
because I love the other sermon.
00:11:28.05\00:11:29.65
The title of it
was The Expulsive Power
00:11:29.68\00:11:33.19
of a New Affection.
00:11:33.22\00:11:35.06
Okay. You think that's true?
00:11:35.09\00:11:36.52
I think that it's
still not our turn of phrase
00:11:36.56\00:11:39.26
for the day, but it
explains very well the dynamic
00:11:39.29\00:11:42.43
of the new birth
when you come to God.
00:11:42.46\00:11:44.57
When you have a new
love, the old things fade away.
00:11:44.60\00:11:47.74
It's the expulsive power of
a new affection, I have a...
00:11:47.77\00:11:49.74
Any man be in Christ
Jesus is a new creature,
00:11:49.77\00:11:51.54
old things have passed
away, behold all things are new.
00:11:51.57\00:11:53.84
I have a teenage
son... But it's a choice.
00:11:53.88\00:11:55.21
And I see this worked out
often when his girlfriends...
00:11:55.24\00:11:58.21
Well, look, I mean, we
have to understand that
00:11:58.25\00:12:00.25
people have a choice and
for some reason or another,
00:12:00.28\00:12:03.85
you know, we wanna make...
00:12:03.89\00:12:05.22
We wanna quantify
that choice into baptisms.
00:12:05.25\00:12:07.89
And I just think we
have missed the boat
00:12:07.92\00:12:09.79
because we have not
been genuinely interested
00:12:09.82\00:12:12.09
to public affairs aspect
00:12:12.13\00:12:13.73
about what's
happening that are impacting
00:12:13.76\00:12:15.66
the community
surrounding the church.
00:12:15.70\00:12:18.23
And that's not
just community services.
00:12:18.27\00:12:21.07
You know, what's
happening? What's crime?
00:12:21.10\00:12:23.24
Why are we not walking
with the neighborhood crime
00:12:23.27\00:12:25.67
watch around our church?
00:12:25.71\00:12:27.21
I don't care
where you live commuter,
00:12:27.24\00:12:28.94
why aren't we
participating in that?
00:12:28.98\00:12:30.81
Granted, it might not
be an Adventist school
00:12:30.85\00:12:32.45
but it's a public
school, why are we not helping?
00:12:32.48\00:12:34.68
Don't we wanna these students...
00:12:34.72\00:12:36.12
I want social
security, maybe yours is okay,
00:12:36.15\00:12:38.22
mine is in doubt.
00:12:38.25\00:12:40.92
But why are we investing in
terms of helping making sure
00:12:40.96\00:12:43.79
the kids have the
resources and the needs
00:12:43.83\00:12:45.99
that they may in the future.
00:12:46.03\00:12:47.60
These are things that can,
how could we say, stand apart.
00:12:47.63\00:12:50.87
You know, love is just more
than just preaching the Bible,
00:12:50.90\00:12:55.37
love is also a
behavior when you interact
00:12:55.40\00:12:58.11
and show compassion
with one to another.
00:12:58.14\00:12:59.47
Well, it's putting into action.
00:12:59.51\00:13:00.91
And so I think
that's some of the things
00:13:00.94\00:13:03.31
that the local ministry in
terms of making it something
00:13:03.35\00:13:06.38
that we get the people in
the seats as members to do
00:13:06.41\00:13:09.35
to have a paradigm
shift in seeing Public Affairs
00:13:09.38\00:13:12.42
and Religious
Liberty as a ministry
00:13:12.45\00:13:14.46
versus the service.
00:13:14.49\00:13:15.82
Yeah. And I really like the...
00:13:15.86\00:13:17.76
It's not a twist because
it's really a rediscovery
00:13:17.79\00:13:20.30
of what's
implicit in public affairs.
00:13:20.33\00:13:24.13
And so, you know,
you're on the right track.
00:13:24.17\00:13:26.40
And we need to talk
about this a little further
00:13:26.43\00:13:28.30
so we'll take a short
break, then we'll be back
00:13:28.34\00:13:31.27
with Ed Woods III,
00:13:31.31\00:13:35.48
to further this
discussion of public affairs
00:13:35.51\00:13:38.05
and its wider implications.
00:13:38.08\00:13:40.38
We'll be back.
00:13:40.42\00:13:41.75