Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Nick Miller
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000367B
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00:04 Welcome back.
00:06 Well, before the break 00:07 we were going through the century. 00:09 Right. 00:11 We're talking about 500 Years of Protest and Liberty, 00:14 Liberty500.com, and we're in the 18th century. 00:17 You're picking like a marketer. 00:18 Well... 00:20 But what we need to talk about 00:22 because it's a big part of this period, 00:24 it's the First Great Awakening. 00:26 And I really believe 00:28 when you talk about religion in the US, 00:30 the First and the Second Great Awakenings 00:32 are the linchpins to just about everything else. 00:35 They create a sense of national identity really. 00:37 Before the First Great Awakening 00:38 there were a series of discrete colonies 00:41 along the Eastern seaboard 00:43 where you have, "Hey, there who is..." 00:45 Some of the big names 00:46 Jonathan Edwards in New England, 00:48 Whitfield. 00:50 Whitfield certainly. 00:51 George Whitfield who comes to England. 00:53 He was English, but he spent so long 00:55 that he was in pretty much any community 00:59 had heard him one way or another. 01:00 He's the first American celebrity, really. 01:02 He's recognizable and travels to almost all the colonies, 01:08 he's promoted by Benjamin Franklin, 01:10 he spends a significant time in Philadelphia. 01:13 He creates a sense that there is an American identity. 01:16 We're involved in this revival together 01:20 and there's a tremendous religious outbreak 01:23 which historians have argued create a sense of identity 01:28 that is important then to Americans 01:30 being willing to two or three decades 01:33 later fighting the revolution. 01:35 I don't know that I could sustain this comment, 01:38 but I picked up a comment by one historian 01:41 that part of his success is he didn't deal 01:44 with doctrinal particulars. 01:46 It was sort of like the popular preachers of today, 01:50 a general appeal, the spirituality, 01:52 and a vision of what it meant to be... 01:56 Well, he was quite a committed Calvinist interestingly enough. 02:00 He and Wesley fought over the doctrines of election 02:04 and predestination. 02:05 Wesley being believer in human freewill 02:10 of some kind anyway and it's interesting to note 02:14 that Whitfield was actually a supporter of slavery, 02:16 did you know that? 02:18 No, I didn't know that. 02:19 He helped bring slavery to Georgia. 02:21 Now the reason I make this point 02:22 is not to impugn Whitfield 02:25 but to underscore the fact that the First Great Awakening 02:28 brought spiritual revival 02:30 and a national sense of identity 02:32 but it didn't create much social change. 02:36 There wasn't a sense 02:37 that people should try to better themselves, 02:39 or change society, free slaves, 02:43 or give women the vote 02:44 and it stands in contrast to something 02:46 we'll talk about the Second Great Awakening 02:48 later on which is a freewill orientation. 02:53 So we have the irony of this country 02:55 that seeking its political freedom, 02:58 and is talking about freedom in rather dramatic ways 03:01 in the Declaration of Independence, 03:03 creating a Bill of Rights. 03:05 You even said a loaded word there. 03:07 Was this country seeking its political freedom? 03:09 I don't think so. 03:10 Well, you know, 03:12 I mean, I think the Declaration of Independence 03:13 sets out to that, right. 03:15 Ah, politically but there's a big story 03:17 where the Boston group 03:20 really polarized the situation 03:23 and redirected some of the sentiments, 03:25 this is what I think. 03:26 There was a scent more of a sense of self 03:31 that was developing in these colonies... 03:33 Yes. 03:34 Rather than just Englishmen or a few others sitting 03:37 on the shores and religion opened 03:40 their horizons I think. 03:42 But I don't think 03:43 it immediately expressed itself 03:45 as they wanted to separate. 03:46 I've read one book... 03:48 Oh, no, I agree. I agree. 03:49 It's probably true that this religious sentiment 03:51 sort of fortified them to see the king 03:53 as the antichrist, 03:56 they've even called Him that and the ruler of Babylon. 03:58 So there was spiritual justice on this side but I really, 04:03 in all my reading I failed to find 04:05 this was a part of land bubbling 04:07 with discontent against England at that time. 04:10 Well, no, it's a few decades later 04:12 after the First Great Awakening. 04:13 But even when it came it was a few of the merchants 04:16 in New York and Boston that had an issue, 04:20 but they polarized the situation 04:22 and then capitalized on this independence spirit. 04:26 Now that sounds like the interpretation of someone 04:29 who was born and raised, 04:31 and part in the common wealth in the British Empire. 04:34 Guilty. Admit, you're an Australian. 04:36 Guilty. 04:37 I think that from a, and I have to confess, 04:40 I was born in England. 04:42 No, I've read a few historians that have said this, 04:43 it's not just about it. 04:44 I was born in England myself 04:46 but raised in the United States. 04:47 And I do think that it would have been hard 04:49 just to engineer revolution 04:50 without some widespread sense of discontent. 04:54 And of course, 04:55 this was focused initially in the New England colonies 04:59 but certainly the Virginia Planters 05:01 had their own issues 05:03 with England commercially and otherwise. 05:06 And I do want to say, 05:07 I don't think it was all just pragmatic. 05:09 In fact, I discussed in my book the desire of the British 05:14 to send over Anglican bishop to the American colonies, 05:19 you know, if you know what that means, 05:21 to us it sounds like, 05:22 "Wow, why would you want a church leader there?" 05:23 But in England... 05:25 Binding the territory. 05:26 If you were an Anglican bishop, 05:28 you actually had civil authorities. 05:29 And Americans didn't want 05:31 this combination of church and state 05:33 and so John Witherspoon who was a clergyman, 05:36 he was president of the University 05:38 of New Jersey which became Princeton, 05:40 he preaches a sermon where he says, "The British, 05:45 if they do this Anglican bishop thing, 05:47 they're gonna be taking away our religious freedoms." 05:49 And because of that he viewed the American Revolution 05:52 as a fight on behalf of religious liberty. 05:56 And therefore justified his involvement 05:58 as a clergyman 05:59 because it was a religious liberty battle. 06:00 There is no question that the, 06:02 as we call it the Episcopal Church 06:05 played a bad role in the build up 06:08 and in the promulgation of the order of independence. 06:12 So that's why they... 06:13 But you keep saying Episcopal 06:14 but really it's the Anglican Church, 06:17 the Episcopal Church 06:18 is what the new church in America 06:20 is called after the revolution. 06:22 That's what I'm saying. Okay. Oh, I see. 06:24 That's the whole reason 06:26 it's called Episcopal in there now. 06:27 Okay. I understood. 06:29 They ruined it 06:30 for themselves forever and ever. 06:32 All right, right, right. 06:33 It was not acceptable to be called 06:34 the Church of England, you know. 06:36 Right, you had to be calling the Episcopal Church. 06:37 Because, yes, there were an offense 06:39 because there was religious divergence 06:42 within the colonies, 06:44 we've discussed how the Puritans came across, 06:46 they didn't like the Church of England, the Anglican. 06:50 And then the war of independence 06:53 set them on the wrong side 06:54 and the Church of England leaders 06:58 actually openly came out against the revolutionaries. 07:02 Yes, that's right. 07:04 So they lost out every which way. 07:05 Yeah. 07:07 And perhaps, it just hit me now. 07:09 Perhaps more than anything 07:10 that may have led the groundwork 07:11 then for pure separation of church and state 07:14 because they didn't want those guys 07:16 in the game anymore. 07:17 Well, that was certainly part of it. 07:19 And so you had some people viewing the Revolutionary War 07:23 as a war of independence, 07:24 but it does raise the question and I think it's important 07:28 when a book that talking about freedom, 07:30 we also talk about the lack of freedom. 07:32 And there was slavery in our country, 07:34 and it was a great stain on our country, 07:36 and the effects of it continue 07:37 to be a great stain on our country. 07:41 The question is how could people 07:43 so articulate about freedom and independence 07:48 be so oppressive to an entire race 07:52 in their midst? 07:53 It's almost without answer. It is almost without answer. 07:57 Given that already I think in England 08:00 there was a turning against the whole principle 08:03 and well before the Civil War England had outlawed... 08:07 There were some religious individuals 08:08 who believed strongly in religious freedom, 08:11 "The Quakers," for instance who were among 08:13 the first advocates for freedom of opposition 08:18 to slavery. 08:19 But also John Wesley, he was a Methodist, 08:22 he believed in freewill, 08:23 he believed in the moral government of God, 08:26 and he opposed slavery on those grounds. 08:28 An early American Methodist opposed slavery. 08:31 Now after a few decades 08:32 especially as they tried to evangelize 08:34 in the South, many of them gave up 08:35 that principle and supported slavery, 08:39 but many of them never lost this initial opposition to it. 08:42 And I think that's the redeeming element 08:44 of this whole story on slavery 08:46 that the many of the abolitionists 08:47 were deeply spiritual people. 08:49 There was a connection 08:50 between religious sentiment and evolution. 08:53 Well, and I think that's where I'm wanting to go 08:54 with this that the human dignity 08:57 that supported religious freedom 08:59 eventually also expressed itself 09:01 in supporting freedoms for other categories of people. 09:06 This is the angel of our better nature 09:07 to quote Abraham Lincoln. 09:09 Coming out, coming out. Yes, indeed. 09:11 Now it's an interesting story 09:12 so if we reach the end of the century? 09:15 Well, we come to the end of the 18th century. 09:18 The First Amendment is framed by Madison. 09:21 We should note that the First Amendment, 09:23 while it protects the free exercise of religion, 09:26 and it very unusual language prohibiting laws, 09:30 respecting an establishment of religion. 09:33 So we often think of the Establishment Clause 09:36 is separating church and state, 09:38 but really it says, 09:39 "You can't make laws respecting 09:42 the separation of church and state." 09:44 Because it was designed, 09:46 some states still had church state combination. 09:48 I've never thought of it that way. 09:50 I just say that it means, it was hands off, 09:52 the federal government was not to have anything to do 09:54 with legally with religion. 09:56 That the federal government wasn't, 09:57 but it allowed the state governments 09:58 to establish religion. 10:00 But we know that was the reality. 10:01 Right. 10:02 And until after the Civil War, 10:04 I'm sure, you'll tell that story. 10:05 And when we go into the 19th century, 10:07 we'll talk about how that changed. 10:08 Yeah. 10:10 So as we end this century, 10:15 slavery is in place. 10:16 Yes. 10:18 There is some religious sentiment against it 10:19 but nothing yet has been done. 10:21 The idea of freedom is fully developing around. 10:24 The principle of freedom 10:25 is put in the federal constitution, 10:27 it's found in more than 10:29 half of the state constitutions. 10:31 But there are several states that still have establishments. 10:34 And we need to talk about that again later. 10:37 The First Great Awakening 10:39 in the 1740s is an event 10:43 that has great spiritual significance 10:46 for American society. 10:48 But many people don't quite realize 10:52 or are mystified to hear 10:53 discussions of religious liberty 10:55 that mix in groups or people like John Locke 10:58 and the enlightenment thinkers 11:01 who may not have narrowly spoken 11:02 about religion. 11:04 The great reality is when we talk about religious liberty 11:07 in the United States today, 11:09 it has, yes, a constitutional background, 11:12 it has, yes, many antecedents in history. 11:16 And, of course, 11:17 the great antecedent that we're remembering 11:19 in these present programs 500 years ago 11:23 Martin Luther and of course, 11:24 many other reformers all throughout Europe 11:26 reawaken spiritual fervor 11:29 and in so doing reemphasized 11:32 the biblical principle of the autonomy 11:35 of the individual before God. 11:38 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2017-07-14