Welcome to the Liberty Insider.
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This is a program that
brings you up-to-date news
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and discussion on
religious liberty events
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all around the world
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but particularly
in the United States.
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My name is Lincoln Steed,
editor of Liberty Magazine,
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and my guest on the
program, Greg Hamilton,
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President of the Northwest
Religious Liberty Association.
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That's a big
mouthful, but you do a lot...
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So there's a long billing.
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You know, these are crazy times
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and I find that
apart from prophecy
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and the Bible
which is core central
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for any Christian
to look at the world,
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but history's a
pretty good jumping off point
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to understand the present.
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You look at the past
and while it doesn't repeat,
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it sets you up for.
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And I don't know about you,
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but I have thought
lately about some of the events,
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turbulent events in Europe
that preceded World War II.
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And we've had
political chaos of sorts
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in the US of late
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and I thought recently
and even as far back as 9/11.
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9/11 was only 16 years ago.
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I know.
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For me it's just yesterday but,
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ask my daughter
who was born in 2001.
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Yes. Right, right.
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Late in 2001,
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you know, I thought
about the Reichstag fire.
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The Reichstag fire in Germany...
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In Germany... 1933.
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Which really...
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I've read many
books, scene many programs,
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no one can say
definitively who started it.
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But everybody knows
that was the catalyst
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that created an
opening for the Nazis
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and for Adolf Hitler
to have unquestioned power
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and it just went
downhill from there.
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Yeah, and Hitler
had just been elected
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as head of government
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and before it was
all said and done.
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As a compromise candidate
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with not really
overwhelming electoral support.
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Before it was all said and done,
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the parliament
passed the enabling act...
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Well, that was
after the Reichstag
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that's probably gave it to him.
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Yeah, gave him the enabling act
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that allowed him
to rule by decree
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and there began the dictatorship
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and the fall of Weimar
Republic in Germany's history.
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And what's
interesting the Weimar Republic
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was making huge
strides way ahead of its time
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in terms of democratic reforms,
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including civil rights,
religious rights everything,
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and Germany, the people
for some reason especially
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the Lutheran Church
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which represented sort of
the Christian right of the day,
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and even the
Catholic Church said,
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you know, this doesn't line
up with our sense of woundedness
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and our sense of nationalism.
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We need to make
Germany great again.
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And so, the way to
do that was to do what?
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Was to bring in the
Nazis because and there go,
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if you read this
book by Robert Erickson
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from Pacific
Lutheran University,
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he's going to
be a guest speaker,
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April 10th at
Walla Walla University,
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April 9th and 10th.
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In fact, we're
co-sponsoring his arrival
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and paying some money
and are providing our logo
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for the
advertisement everything...
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You should ask him
to come on this program.
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That'll be good but
he wrote a book called,
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Complicity in the Holocaust:
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Churches and
Universities in Nazi Germany.
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They were there's no question.
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Well, the Lutheran
Church essentially seized Hitler
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and propped him up
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and made him a national savior.
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It was a Christian right
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who elevated Hitler to his place
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in the eyes of
the German people.
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And history is very plain,
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you don't see
these quotes anymore,
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but you can go and look them up.
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Hitler made some
incredibly positive statements
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about religion.
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He said, The German state
in the Nazi regime was founded,
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absolutely founded on
the Christian religion.
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Right
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Well, looking
back on it, you know,
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it couldn't be
further from the truth,
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but they said that
and it was accepted.
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And he loved to
quote Romans 13:1-3
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that the powers that
be the rulers that be the,
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you know, they're
for your good and not bad
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and you're told
bathed him no matter what...
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And remember fairly
early on, he singed a concordat
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with the Roman Catholic Church
which was not just a treaty,
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it was a concordat, it
means a full agreement,
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you know, so that
he had the full backing
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of the Roman Catholic Church,
they liked his moral agenda.
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Well, the Reichstag
fire was interesting
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because it serves as a warning.
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Basically what Hitler
and the Nazis did is, say,
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this was a bunch
of leftist terrorists
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who burned down the Reichstag,
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and therefore all
you people need to,
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you know, these
people are terrorists
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and therefore
you need to back us.
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So terrorism you could say
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was the
beginning of the downfall
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of the Weimar Republic
of the democratic experiment
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in Germany.
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And there's an article in
The New York Review of Books
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by Timothy Snyder
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that just came out
called the "Reichstag Warning"
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about how that
could so easily happen
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with the propaganda
and everything else,
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so easily that
could happen here,
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right here in the
United States of America.
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Yeah.
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I was watching a program
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recently about the
Hitler Youth groups
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which were the only game in town
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by the time the war began.
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And they interviewed
some of the now old people
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who were young people then,
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and they said that it
wasn't obligatory at first,
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but these young
people were taken off
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for they were
living in the cities
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and here they go
camping in the country
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and it was a
wonderful outdoor life,
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but from the beginning
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it was a very
adversarial relationships.
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The kids were told to fight
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till there was
blood drawn and all,
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so they were being
trained to soldiers,
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and the social
pressure was very strong to join
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the Hitler Youth thing,
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so that
increased its popularity,
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but then it reached the point
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when they were
quite a major group
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that they would march
down the street calling out
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to the other kids in the houses,
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and if they didn't come down,
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they would send
a couple of Hitler
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Youth in to drag them down
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and forcibly take
them off to the meetings.
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And then further than that,
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he said, it's
because this young,
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one of the fellows,
who was young at that time,
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he said, that his father
didn't agree of the Nazis
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so he didn't join.
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And he said, at school
the teacher would punish them
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for not being part
of the Hitler Youth,
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so the pressure was incredibly
overwhelming socially,
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but then there
was curse in the plot
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because you were
not a good German
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if you were not
part of the Hitler Youth.
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Not only that but after
1933 the Nazi regime made use
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of a supposed threat of
terrorism against Germans
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from an imaginary
international Jewish conspiracy,
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and so, after five years
of repressing Jews in 1938,
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the German state
began to deport them.
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It almost sounds
like the same dilemma
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we have now or
the same propaganda
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that's being used now to
deport certain groups of people.
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Whether they be
Muslims, Mexican, or whatever.
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By no stretch
of the imagination,
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you know, could we
compare this administration
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with Hitler's henchmen,
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I mean, they were
whole different animal
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but the patterns
of human behavior
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and of control are the same.
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Right.
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And we are almost
falling haphazardly
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into the same pattern.
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There's a need
for moral new world,
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Hitler felt that
it had been betrayed
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in the Versailles Treaty
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and their
greatness lay behind them
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and there was an
appeal to be made great again.
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Even Hitler when
he became chancellor,
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he was a minority party.
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Right.
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He didn't win it by
an overwhelming mandate,
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but Hindenburg
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and the other power
brokers thought that
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they could diffuse
this growing agitation
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with a rather
aggressive Nazi party
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that was causing some
trouble in the streets.
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They could put Hitler and
use him as a useful puppet
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and diffuse the social unrest
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and they
miscalculated very badly.
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In 1989 right when the Cold War
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basically was being
won by the United States,
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thanks to the
presidency of Ronald Reagan.
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God bless him and his
family, but the president
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or the current president
back in 1983 Donald Trump said,
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"Civil liberties
end when an attack
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on our safety begins."
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I find it interesting because,
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you know, all it takes
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is another
catastrophic terrorist attack
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and what he says
is already in his head
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in terms of what he will do.
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It's unfortunate.
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And of course,
that's proven by history
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and any number of other
people have said similar things
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but that's very ominous
that thought crossed his mind.
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Yes, I've sometimes
even on this program
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I think suggested that we
might just be one cataclysm
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or a major disastrous event away
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from at the very
least a sort of a lock,
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a moral or a freedom lockdown.
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Yeah.
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It seems that
that's very possible,
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whether that happens
or not remains to be seen,
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but to me it's something that
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we have to be ever cognizant of.
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And the only real defense
we have is a group defense.
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If a critical
mass of the population
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just say no more,
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just like with the...
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You think you invoke
McCarthy somewhat earlier.
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You know,
McCarthyism was destructive
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for this country many people
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and whole
industries were debilitated
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by the charge of communism,
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but all it took in
the end was one guy
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that got up and
says, "Have you no shame."
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Well, the problem is...
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And then the whole
edifice was collapsed.
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When there's the use of real
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or imagined
terrorist threats to create
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or consolidate
authoritarian regimes.
00:09:51.42\00:09:54.59
I mean to consolidate authority
by using such propaganda,
00:09:54.62\00:10:00.86
by using real or
imagined terrorist threats
00:10:00.90\00:10:04.67
to consolidate authority
00:10:04.70\00:10:06.70
that is not
helpful for our country
00:10:06.74\00:10:09.57
and that seems to be the era
00:10:09.60\00:10:12.54
that we are living in right now.
00:10:12.57\00:10:14.38
And it shows you to me in a way
00:10:14.41\00:10:17.68
how closely our constitution
can be abrogated, destroyed,
00:10:17.71\00:10:21.95
Ellen White warns about that
00:10:21.98\00:10:23.42
in the fifth
volume of Testimonies
00:10:23.45\00:10:24.79
that, that our constitution,
00:10:24.82\00:10:28.36
when our
constitution is destroyed
00:10:28.39\00:10:30.23
it would be because of,
00:10:30.26\00:10:31.99
you know, people
thinking in a Sunday law
00:10:32.03\00:10:34.76
and all of this stuff.
00:10:34.80\00:10:36.13
We know that as
Seventh-day Adventists.
00:10:36.16\00:10:37.87
But we don't often
factor in other things
00:10:37.90\00:10:40.54
that could lead to that
00:10:40.57\00:10:41.90
that could trigger
such a dissolution,
00:10:41.94\00:10:45.44
a quick rapid
dissolution of our constitution.
00:10:45.47\00:10:48.31
The underlying enabling act
00:10:48.34\00:10:50.65
which is always been my burden
00:10:50.68\00:10:52.11
rather than legal
changes is social consciousness
00:10:52.15\00:10:56.79
or the population consciousness.
00:10:56.82\00:10:58.89
If, let's just make it
posit, but I think it's fact,
00:10:58.92\00:11:02.56
if you have a population
00:11:02.59\00:11:03.99
that don't know
the constitution,
00:11:04.03\00:11:06.19
how can they be
true to the constitution.
00:11:06.23\00:11:08.50
The
constitution's power was that,
00:11:08.53\00:11:10.73
it was putting on
paper what a critical mass
00:11:10.77\00:11:14.34
of the people
originally believed.
00:11:14.37\00:11:17.11
We don't even know
00:11:17.14\00:11:18.47
if we believe it
now, if that's...
00:11:18.51\00:11:20.01
You know, I've seen
any number of programs
00:11:20.04\00:11:21.54
where they ask people
about the constitution,
00:11:21.58\00:11:22.91
they don't know.
00:11:22.94\00:11:24.28
And if they know anything,
00:11:24.31\00:11:25.65
it's the
Declaration of Independence,
00:11:25.68\00:11:27.02
that shorthand
for what they think
00:11:27.05\00:11:28.38
of the constitution.
00:11:28.42\00:11:29.75
So the constitution is unlikely
to be consciously abrogated,
00:11:29.78\00:11:32.45
it's just forgotten.
00:11:32.49\00:11:34.09
And we know that
people have become
00:11:34.12\00:11:37.76
more and more easily
swayed by demagoguery
00:11:37.79\00:11:40.40
or just the emergency
of the times after 9/11,
00:11:40.43\00:11:43.43
you know, people would say,
00:11:43.47\00:11:44.80
I don't care if the
president knows what I'm doing,
00:11:44.83\00:11:46.27
if they're spying on me
as long as I'm protected.
00:11:46.30\00:11:47.67
Right.
00:11:47.70\00:11:49.04
I mean, yeah, you
understand emotionally
00:11:49.07\00:11:50.64
why they would say that,
00:11:50.67\00:11:52.01
but the underlying
inference of that is,
00:11:52.04\00:11:54.44
I'm willing to
live in a police state
00:11:54.48\00:11:56.01
as long as you keep,
00:11:56.04\00:11:57.38
keep the dogs away from me.
00:11:57.41\00:11:59.21
And we're
drifting into that sort of
00:11:59.25\00:12:01.02
an enabling dynamic
00:12:01.05\00:12:03.32
and the Catholic
Church you mentioned.
00:12:03.35\00:12:05.62
The popes come and go
and their attitudes change
00:12:05.65\00:12:08.52
a little bit from time to time,
00:12:08.56\00:12:09.89
but whatever,
00:12:09.92\00:12:11.26
they were never
able to do anything
00:12:11.29\00:12:12.76
to Protestant America
00:12:12.79\00:12:14.13
when Protestant
sensibilities were intact.
00:12:14.16\00:12:16.53
But when you forget who you are,
00:12:16.56\00:12:18.20
why you are Protestant,
00:12:18.23\00:12:20.37
why individual
liberties are so important,
00:12:20.40\00:12:23.30
you're easy pickings
for these emergencies.
00:12:23.34\00:12:25.87
And there's that famous quote,
00:12:25.91\00:12:27.24
you know, that is to give away
00:12:27.28\00:12:28.61
civil liberties
for an emergency,
00:12:28.64\00:12:29.98
don't deserve liberty
or what is that safety.
00:12:30.01\00:12:35.58
I think the
argument is strong...
00:12:35.62\00:12:37.59
Benjamin Franklin said that.
00:12:37.62\00:12:38.95
Yeah, that we're
actually not so sitting ducks,
00:12:38.99\00:12:42.29
we've moved
ourselves as a modern community
00:12:42.32\00:12:46.39
into enchanted ground
00:12:46.43\00:12:47.76
because we think
differently than what we claim.
00:12:47.80\00:12:51.07
But there's another
attitude that goes with that
00:12:51.10\00:12:53.67
and that is this idea that
God is ultimately in control,
00:12:53.70\00:12:56.54
so therefore,
this must be God's will
00:12:56.57\00:12:59.54
and, you know,
and they cite Daniel 2
00:12:59.57\00:13:02.51
where God sets up
kings, takes down Kings,
00:13:02.54\00:13:05.21
but I'm reminded of Hosea 8:4
and it's a most amazing text,
00:13:05.25\00:13:11.42
and I spoke about
this with Charles Mills,
00:13:11.45\00:13:14.36
and he wrote an article
00:13:14.39\00:13:15.72
for Liberty
Magazine that you have,
00:13:15.76\00:13:17.53
and it's fascinating
00:13:17.56\00:13:19.33
because Hosea 8:4
says the following.
00:13:19.36\00:13:23.26
Some of our viewers
may know Charles Mills,
00:13:23.30\00:13:25.17
he's the necessary man
00:13:25.20\00:13:30.11
that we've hired to
do the radio program,
00:13:30.14\00:13:31.97
I do...
00:13:32.01\00:13:33.34
And that's called Liberty Quest.
00:13:33.38\00:13:34.71
Yeah.
00:13:34.74\00:13:36.08
He's the
moderator for me mostly.
00:13:36.11\00:13:37.71
I did three
programs with him on Tuesday.
00:13:37.75\00:13:39.38
Yeah. Did you do three? Yes.
00:13:39.41\00:13:41.72
It was to be two, but
I said, needs to be more.
00:13:41.75\00:13:43.08
It was used to be two,
but the second one ran over
00:13:43.12\00:13:45.95
and we turned
out into a third one.
00:13:45.99\00:13:47.36
Good. Yeah
00:13:47.39\00:13:48.72
So I hope some of our
viewers can tune into 3ABN radio
00:13:48.76\00:13:52.09
which rebroadcasts...
00:13:52.13\00:13:53.46
Liberty Quest.
Yes. Liberty Quest.
00:13:53.50\00:13:55.66
Hosea 8:4, says,
00:13:55.70\00:13:57.03
"They have set up
kings but not by me,
00:13:57.07\00:13:59.77
they have made princes
00:13:59.80\00:14:01.14
and I knew it
not of their silver
00:14:01.17\00:14:03.00
and their gold have
they made them idols
00:14:03.04\00:14:05.97
that they may be cut off."
00:14:06.01\00:14:07.81
And so, you know,
00:14:07.84\00:14:09.18
that to me says
very clearly that,
00:14:09.21\00:14:12.18
you know, yes, God is
ultimately in control,
00:14:12.21\00:14:14.58
that's true,
00:14:14.62\00:14:15.95
but He does not interfere
with our day to day choices.
00:14:15.98\00:14:20.26
And so we have to remember that.
00:14:20.29\00:14:22.19
We ultimately
choose who our president is
00:14:22.22\00:14:25.16
through our
Democratic-Republican system
00:14:25.19\00:14:28.06
and, you know, that
can have some ill effects.
00:14:28.10\00:14:32.93
I mean, we have
to, we cannot forget
00:14:32.97\00:14:35.94
that Adolf Hitler was elected
the leader of his nation, okay.
00:14:35.97\00:14:40.98
And we should not forget
00:14:41.01\00:14:42.34
that it wasn't
just a single person,
00:14:42.38\00:14:45.01
I mean, he took it in
an aberrant direction,
00:14:45.05\00:14:46.61
but he couldn't have done
00:14:46.65\00:14:48.45
what he did without a
general enabling attitude
00:14:48.48\00:14:51.45
of the people.
00:14:51.49\00:14:52.82
Anti-semitism was systemic
in Germany at that time.
00:14:52.85\00:14:58.53
And attitudes toward foreigners,
00:14:58.56\00:15:01.63
gypsies and
others was murderous,
00:15:01.66\00:15:04.47
and he just kept
capitalized on it,
00:15:04.50\00:15:05.83
but it existed.
00:15:05.87\00:15:07.20
Yeah, let me...
00:15:07.24\00:15:08.57
The idea that one man hijacked
the whole country is nonsense.
00:15:08.60\00:15:10.91
Right, Hosea 8:4,
the NIV says it better,
00:15:10.94\00:15:14.21
I read the King
James before, but it says,
00:15:14.24\00:15:16.34
"They set up kings
without my consent,
00:15:16.38\00:15:18.71
they choose princes
without my approval,
00:15:18.75\00:15:20.95
with their gold and silver
00:15:20.98\00:15:22.78
they make idols for themselves
00:15:22.82\00:15:24.19
to their own destruction."
00:15:24.22\00:15:25.55
It's very plain.
00:15:25.59\00:15:26.92
We'll visit that
00:15:26.96\00:15:28.29
when we come back
after a short break.
00:15:28.32\00:15:29.66
Stay with us,
00:15:29.69\00:15:31.03
Reichstag fire and old
things that pertained to such.
00:15:31.06\00:15:36.50