Participants: Lincoln Steed (Host), Greg Hamilton
Series Code: LI
Program Code: LI000361B
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00:04 Welcome back to the Liberty Insider,
00:06 before the break with guest Greg Hamilton. 00:10 We were trying to give some of the history 00:12 and an explanation of the Johnson Amendment 00:15 as it was known. 00:17 Forgotten by most people, 1954. Yeah. 00:20 But it's popped up now with the new administration 00:24 talking openly about resending that 00:26 and replacing it with something far more legitimate. 00:27 To repeal the Johnson Amendment 00:29 is actually to threaten religious freedom. 00:30 It doesn't help religious freedom. 00:32 I think we agreed on that, don't we? 00:33 But there is lot of people, the propaganda, it's out there. 00:35 They say that to, 00:37 to lift the Johnson Amendment 00:39 is to promote religious freedom, 00:41 and thereby free speech. 00:42 Well, your free speech, 00:44 first of all lets conclude right here. 00:45 It's not limited at the pulpit 00:47 in terms of speaking out on moral, and religious, 00:51 and even if those moral religious issues are political 00:56 and even if they're attached to particular candidate, 00:59 it doesn't violate the Johnson Amendment. 01:01 What violates the Johnson Amendment 01:02 is if you endorse a political candidate, okay, 01:06 officially as a church, okay, 01:08 or from the pulpit and you sponsor them, 01:12 or you campaign for them and use money to do so. 01:16 All right, that's a violation of Johnson Amendment. 01:18 Now, what happened before 1954, 01:20 when it was enacted, lot of people say, well, 1954 01:24 what did they do before then? 01:25 Well, I'll tell you, churches had common sense, 01:28 they had good sense. 01:29 They were all about preaching the gospel commission. 01:32 They were not politically involved to something. 01:34 Now, they're so politically involved, 01:36 that they've lost sight of the gospel commission, 01:38 and to me it's a prophetic sign of the times, 01:41 Lincoln, it really is. 01:43 I think the only time I can remember, 01:44 when the churches got into things 01:46 that had a political ramification 01:49 was the Prohibition movement. 01:51 But that was not partisan, 01:53 that was not political in the sense of, 01:56 you know, the open warfare between the parties. 01:59 Well, slavery, the anti-slavery movement 02:01 is the biggest example. 02:02 Well, that was earlier, but prohibition... 02:04 Still. 02:05 Prohibition was relatively modern. 02:07 They went after an unjust cause. 02:09 Well, the church should talk about moral issues. 02:11 Right. 02:12 And the moral issue maybe on the political agenda, 02:15 but that's not partisan. 02:16 Right. 02:18 But to promote different candidates 02:20 to be partisan toward a party versus another party. 02:22 Right. 02:24 To me that's medieval, dangerous, 02:26 and ultimately there will be losers on that 02:28 because the church by definition 02:30 will be differing with other church groups even. 02:33 Because the church is not monolithic. 02:35 Well, we also have to understand 02:36 that the Johnson Amendment 02:37 is so relaxed by the IRS in terms of its application, 02:40 that it's not doing much with it. 02:42 So the ACLU, 02:43 The American Civil Liberties Union 02:45 and the Americans United 02:46 for Separation of Church and State 02:47 otherwise known as AU, 02:49 aren't getting very far with this. 02:51 And they've scaled back their attempts 02:53 to spy on churches so to speak. 02:55 Well, let's get into the bigger question. 02:57 And that's what we need to bring out. 02:58 It's not being used very aggressively 03:02 to stop the church doing 03:04 what they would otherwise do, apparently. 03:06 Yeah. 03:07 So you have to ask the question, 03:09 why do some in the religious right want it done away with. 03:12 Well... 03:14 They must have a hidden agenda, or hither to unrevealed agenda, 03:18 because what they are now doing is not bothered by this. 03:21 Yes, it's. 03:23 Yeah, it's almost an un-venting agenda. 03:25 Now some people say it's a purposeful agenda. 03:27 I wouldn't say that. 03:29 I think there are lot of movements, 03:30 it just comes with the turf as they sense 03:33 that they're gaining more and more power, 03:35 or they're at the edge of power, 03:38 seizing power. 03:39 I think it's all about a power game 03:41 and it's called political power. 03:43 To influence and even to manipulate, 03:46 dominate and control the civil government. 03:48 That's what we are told by Ellen White, what happened? 03:50 In order for United States to form an image of the beast, 03:52 the religious power 03:54 or powers must so control the civil government. 03:57 That doesn't say secular humanism, 03:59 that doesn't say atheism, 04:01 that doesn't say same sex marriage. 04:02 I've never believed secularism is the threat. 04:05 It doesn't say communism, 04:07 or socialism is the big bugaboo. 04:08 Yeah. 04:10 It says the religious power or powers. 04:13 Now, that to me 04:15 is the most powerful warning we could have. 04:19 Not only to our church and to our church members 04:21 who are viewing here, 04:22 but also to anyone listening outside of that 04:25 to understand that the greatest threat, 04:27 the greatest threat to religious freedom, 04:30 the greatest threat to our constitutional system 04:33 will come from religious powers. 04:35 And I'll put it in another way, 04:36 because it ties to my favorite thing. 04:39 Religious, or religion enact, religious activity 04:42 with its spirituality removed is dangerous. 04:46 It's one of the most dangerous, 04:48 most threatening dynamics in the world today. 04:52 We're observing it with Al-Qaeda and ISIS, 04:55 you know, they play a good game, 04:56 but there is no evidence 04:58 that they're deeply spiritual Muslims. 05:00 But they've seized on 05:01 the aggressive side of their religion. 05:03 So a politically active church in the United States, 05:07 that's not distinguished by its deep spirituality, 05:10 I think is inherently dangerous. 05:12 Well, you know... 05:14 And conversely if it were more spiritual, 05:17 it wouldn't be as burdened 05:18 to do what they wanted to do now. 05:20 I think the substitution. 05:22 I think secularism has been so run amuck of late 05:27 that it's gone too far 05:28 whether we're talking about same sex marriage, 05:30 abortion or other issues. 05:32 It seems that the pendulum is swinging back, 05:35 that the grassroots American public 05:39 made up by the Christian right 05:40 so to speak is starting to comeback full force. 05:45 And they're gonna seize as much as they can 05:47 under this particular administration, 05:49 the Trump administration as they can. 05:51 And to me there is... 05:52 Listen, I am just as alarmed as anybody else 05:55 about how far secularism has gone. 05:57 Okay, I'm very... 06:01 I have really huge issues with same sex marriage okay. 06:04 I do, fundamentally. 06:06 Now, I believe that you cannot win an argument 06:08 against same sex marriage 06:09 based upon the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. 06:12 You're never gonna win that argument. 06:13 It was inevitable, it was bound to happen constitutionally. 06:17 You cannot win a constitutional argument 06:19 against same sex marriage, 06:21 you cannot win an argument against it. 06:22 But I'm also, so therefore I'm a realist, 06:25 but I also believe that our institutions 06:27 need to shot up its hiring policies, 06:31 its policies for student housing 06:33 at our college campuses and so on and so forth. 06:36 So it needs to make very clear what its policies are, 06:39 and build a bulwark of protection 06:41 to protect our institutions from, from being forced 06:46 because we're not gonna be forced. 06:47 Now some people say, they bring up the, 06:49 they bring up the Bob Jones 06:53 Supreme Court ruling of 1985. 06:57 And that was an interesting case, 06:58 whereby they said, okay, 07:00 you want, you ban interracial dating, 07:04 and marriage on campus here. 07:07 That's a violation of IRS rules. 07:11 And so they said, 07:12 you're gonna lose your tax exempt status, 07:14 or you know, and... 07:17 I remember that, it was quite scandalous sometimes. 07:19 Yeah, so a lot of people say that, 07:22 that same type of tactic 07:24 will be used against those 07:26 who will not go along 07:28 with same sex marriage enforcement 07:31 or gay rights within religious institutions. 07:34 And say that you must do this and this and this, 07:37 or you will lose your tax exempt status. 07:39 I don't believe that the law would go that far, 07:42 because right now the pendulum 07:43 is swinging the other direction politically. 07:45 Politically, you got to remember, 07:47 politics affects the rule of law. 07:51 People forget that. 07:53 Lot of people think "Well, 07:54 but the rule of law is moving a certain direction." 07:56 But the rule of law 07:57 only goes as far as political movements go. 08:01 For example, same sex marriage was unheard of. 08:04 I mean, if anybody thought 20 years ago 08:06 that same sex marriage would be legalized, 08:09 you would've been called nuts but now... 08:11 Coming at politics, 08:13 that politics is an expression 08:15 in the political sphere of where society is, 08:18 and in this case morally. 08:20 Yes. 08:21 And that's what we are reaping. Yes. 08:23 And when you talk about the church protecting itself, 08:26 it better be protecting what it really 08:28 is rather than what it wishes it would. 08:30 Because if we are trying to protect some mythical idea 08:34 of our biblical standards that we're not keeping them, 08:36 we're destined to failure. 08:38 And I've already seen signs of that. 08:40 You told about the gay behavior, 08:42 we're trying to stop in the will 08:45 but it's bubbling up within the church, 08:46 so what's the point in saying, 08:48 we won't have gay marriage students. 08:49 The problem is... 08:51 It's housing, if we have gay, Christian marriage students. 08:55 The problem is it puts the church 08:56 in the spirit of the defensive, on the side of the defensive 08:59 instead of seeking to be an inclusive church 09:04 to where they accept all people not necessarily 09:07 as church members, but it's a place for sinners. 09:10 They are turning the church into a system 09:14 that's purely exclusive, that excludes people. 09:17 And that's a problem for the future of the church. 09:19 That's a place for the regenerate sinners, 09:21 not, not... 09:22 That's true, that's what I am saying. 09:23 Regenerating. That's what I am saying. 09:25 What we see today happening 09:27 is a pendulum swing to the right. 09:31 Now some people say, well, it swung so far to the left, 09:34 that's true. 09:35 But as it swings to the right, 09:36 we're going to see 09:38 a lot of radical changes constitutionally 09:40 and otherwise in this country. 09:42 And I believe that represents a prophetic trend. 09:46 Editing Liberty magazine 09:47 has given me some interesting context, 09:50 and one that I'll never forget 09:52 was sitting in the office 09:54 of television evangelist named D. James Kennedy. 09:58 I don't know what the 'D' stood for. 10:00 But he was well-known television evangelist 10:02 out of Coral Gables, Florida. 10:04 And toward the end of his life, 10:07 and he was well-known and well respected, 10:09 very straight-laced in his ministerial uniform. 10:12 Toward the end of his life, 10:13 he pretty much invested all of his capital in promoting 10:17 what was known as the Jones Bill. 10:19 And I will never forget talking to him in his office, 10:22 and he said about that bill, he said, 10:24 it's time to unbind the churches, 10:26 let them free. 10:28 Let them indwells themselves politically. 10:31 I was very impressed with the spirituality, 10:34 and the kindness, 10:35 and the obvious dedication of this man 10:37 who came in from his vacation to talk to me. 10:40 But I am not impressed with churches 10:43 that want political power. 10:45 The Jones Bill is passed 10:47 but its successor is just ahead of us. 10:50 For Liberty Insider, this is Lincoln Steed. |
Revised 2017-05-01